Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs - Page 694 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

Forum Jump: 
 1627Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #20791 of 20816 Old 12-07-2016, 01:01 PM
AVS Special Member
 
LastButNotLeast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: 08077
Posts: 7,484
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1373 Post(s)
Liked: 965
Then toe them OUT.
You'd be surprised at the difference.
I was!
Michael
Waterboy77 likes this.

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
Downloadable FREE demo discs: Demonstration Blu-Ray Discs (Independently Authored)
Welcome to AVS - Get out while you still can!
LastButNotLeast is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #20792 of 20816 Old 12-08-2016, 12:56 PM
Member
 
Foggy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Alpena Mi
Posts: 143
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
Liked: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foggy1 View Post
Latest run. Advice on bass traps, type and where to locate, as well as any other interpretations please.
Waterfall or spectrogram better to evaluate need for bass traps.
Post your room layout; mdat file would be helpful, too.
Michael
. Michael,

Any thoughts on room layout or waterfall
Foggy1 is online now  
post #20793 of 20816 Old 12-08-2016, 01:23 PM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Europe, Croatia
Posts: 929
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 542 Post(s)
Liked: 247
Does EDT and RT have any significance below <100 Hz or should I stick exclusively to waterfall and spectrogram?

Revel Ultima Salon 2, Revel M106, Revel C208, Yamaha P5000S, Denon X5200, Panasonic 65" VT50, SVS PC13-Ultra
Kef LS50, Parasound New Classic, Focusrite 2i2
donktard is online now  
post #20794 of 20816 Old 12-08-2016, 01:58 PM
AVS Special Member
 
LastButNotLeast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: 08077
Posts: 7,484
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1373 Post(s)
Liked: 965
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foggy1 View Post
Any thoughts on room layout or waterfall
Working tonight. Will try to check when I get home.
Do you have any form of equalization available?
Michael

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
Downloadable FREE demo discs: Demonstration Blu-Ray Discs (Independently Authored)
Welcome to AVS - Get out while you still can!
LastButNotLeast is offline  
post #20795 of 20816 Old 12-08-2016, 03:27 PM
Member
 
Foggy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Alpena Mi
Posts: 143
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
Liked: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foggy1 View Post
Any thoughts on room layout or waterfall
Working tonight. Will try to check when I get home.
Do you have any form of equalization available?
Michael
. Yes, can import rew into the xmc-1, and also have dirac, both make a significant difference when applied. Want to make as many improvements as possible first. Just picked up a small sub from my son, going to play with that, better to seperate or stack? Thanks
Foggy1 is online now  
post #20796 of 20816 Old 12-08-2016, 03:33 PM
AVS Special Member
 
LastButNotLeast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: 08077
Posts: 7,484
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1373 Post(s)
Liked: 965
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foggy1 View Post
better to seperate or stack?
I depends.
You have to try it and see.
If it were easy, we wouldn't all be here.
Michael
ahblaza and bmcn like this.

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
Downloadable FREE demo discs: Demonstration Blu-Ray Discs (Independently Authored)
Welcome to AVS - Get out while you still can!
LastButNotLeast is offline  
post #20797 of 20816 Old 12-08-2016, 07:15 PM
Member
 
Foggy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Alpena Mi
Posts: 143
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
Liked: 44
Staked the sub, sounds phenomenal, prophylactic improvement, rew results don't change.?. Uneven frequency responses seem to me to extend far beoyond sub range, therefore hoping room treatments do the trick. Will work on second sub positioning to see if that helps.?
Foggy1 is online now  
post #20798 of 20816 Old 12-08-2016, 07:33 PM
AVS Special Member
 
LastButNotLeast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: 08077
Posts: 7,484
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1373 Post(s)
Liked: 965
Sorry, but I have no idea what you just said.
Yes, your frequency response is very uneven. It may be your speakers, it may be your room. A hundred bass traps won't help that.
The green graph is a real improvement over the red. EQ?
However, your decay is HORRIBLE!

You need sound absorption of all kinds everywhere. Start with every pillow you have in the house. Fill the room with them. Run REW again and see if there's a difference.
Michael

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
Downloadable FREE demo discs: Demonstration Blu-Ray Discs (Independently Authored)
Welcome to AVS - Get out while you still can!
LastButNotLeast is offline  
post #20799 of 20816 Old Yesterday, 06:40 AM
Member
 
Foggy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Alpena Mi
Posts: 143
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
Liked: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
Sorry, but I have no idea what you just said.
Yes, your frequency response is very uneven. It may be your speakers, it may be your room. A hundred bass traps won't help that.
The green graph is a real improvement over the red. EQ?
However, your decay is HORRIBLE!

You need sound absorption of all kinds everywhere. Start with every pillow you have in the house. Fill the room with them. Run REW again and see if there's a difference.
Michael
Yess that was post equalization. Stacked my subs, not staked. To my ears, everytime I change something it sounds better, thats why I trust the graphs. Rigid, old style, thick, drywall with dead space insulation. Probably ultra reflective. Going to start building broadband absorbers if that sounds like the best approach? Please, lkeep the suggestions coming
Foggy1 is online now  
post #20800 of 20816 Old Yesterday, 09:58 AM
AVS Special Member
 
LastButNotLeast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: 08077
Posts: 7,484
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1373 Post(s)
Liked: 965
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterboy77 View Post
Thanks Michael, I will try that. They are toed in at the moment, almost pointing directly to MLP
Any improvement?
Michael

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
Downloadable FREE demo discs: Demonstration Blu-Ray Discs (Independently Authored)
Welcome to AVS - Get out while you still can!
LastButNotLeast is offline  
post #20801 of 20816 Old Yesterday, 10:34 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Waterboy77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 1,208
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 446 Post(s)
Liked: 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
Any improvement?
Michael
LOL haven't had a chance yet, hopefully in the few couple of days..... was working on Submaximus V3 for a buddy last night

One day I will start the new theater....... one day..... THAT DAY HAS ARRIVED
"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." Red Green
Family Cave Theater
Automation Thoughts/ Questions
Waterboy77 is offline  
post #20802 of 20816 Old Yesterday, 10:53 AM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Europe, Croatia
Posts: 929
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 542 Post(s)
Liked: 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foggy1 View Post
Yess that was post equalization. Stacked my subs, not staked. To my ears, everytime I change something it sounds better, thats why I trust the graphs. Rigid, old style, thick, drywall with dead space insulation. Probably ultra reflective. Going to start building broadband absorbers if that sounds like the best approach? Please, lkeep the suggestions coming
Show RT60 graph.

Revel Ultima Salon 2, Revel M106, Revel C208, Yamaha P5000S, Denon X5200, Panasonic 65" VT50, SVS PC13-Ultra
Kef LS50, Parasound New Classic, Focusrite 2i2
donktard is online now  
post #20803 of 20816 Old Yesterday, 12:48 PM
Member
 
Foggy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Alpena Mi
Posts: 143
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
Liked: 44
Unhappy

Quote:
Originally Posted by donktard View Post
Show RT60 graph.
rt60 of the left, right and sub. Hung as much fluffy stuff as possible and re ran rew, definately helped. Please keep the suggestions coming
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	rt60 10-200.jpg
Views:	18
Size:	54.5 KB
ID:	1819705   Click image for larger version

Name:	rt60 full range.jpg
Views:	19
Size:	74.8 KB
ID:	1819713  
Foggy1 is online now  
post #20804 of 20816 Old Yesterday, 01:21 PM
Member
 
Foggy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Alpena Mi
Posts: 143
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
Liked: 44
or this one, excuse my ignorance
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	rt60-2.jpg
Views:	19
Size:	76.4 KB
ID:	1819753  
Foggy1 is online now  
post #20805 of 20816 Old Yesterday, 01:25 PM
AVS Special Member
 
markus767's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,008
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3362 Post(s)
Liked: 1209
Actually not too bad above a couple of hundred Hertz. Unfortunately damping needs to be at the low end. Can you post your .mdat?

Markus

"In science, contrary evidence causes one to question a theory. In religion, contrary evidence causes one to question the evidence." - Floyd Toole
markus767 is offline  
post #20806 of 20816 Old Yesterday, 01:33 PM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Europe, Croatia
Posts: 929
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 542 Post(s)
Liked: 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foggy1 View Post
or this one, excuse my ignorance
Yeah, that one is the way we usually look at it. And just post full range ones, RT is not particularly useful for sub bass.
Looks okayish above 400 Hz, live but ok. Pretty nasty below 400 Hz though.
I wouldn't just throw stuff around the room. I'd start by putting 2" or 4" panels at first reflection points, then I'd find best position for subwoofer(s) and apply room correction (EQ, calibration) if you have avaliable.
After that I would check RT, impulse response and waterfall to determine whats lacking. You would most likely need some corner traps to help the upper bass bloat, and if necessary...some diffusion if your first reflection panels overabsorb the high frequencies.

Revel Ultima Salon 2, Revel M106, Revel C208, Yamaha P5000S, Denon X5200, Panasonic 65" VT50, SVS PC13-Ultra
Kef LS50, Parasound New Classic, Focusrite 2i2
donktard is online now  
post #20807 of 20816 Old Yesterday, 01:38 PM
Member
 
Foggy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Alpena Mi
Posts: 143
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
Liked: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
Actually not too bad above a couple of hundred Hertz. Unfortunately damping needs to be at the low end. Can you post your .mdat?
post 20786 has it.

Thanks Markus
Foggy1 is online now  
post #20808 of 20816 Old Yesterday, 01:44 PM
Member
 
Foggy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Alpena Mi
Posts: 143
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
Liked: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by donktard View Post
Yeah, that one is the way we usually look at it. And just post full range ones, RT is not particularly useful for sub bass.
Looks okayish above 400 Hz, live but ok. Pretty nasty below 400 Hz though.
I wouldn't just throw stuff around the room. I'd start by putting 2" or 4" panels at first reflection points, then I'd find best position for subwoofer(s) and apply room correction (EQ, calibration) if you have avaliable.
After that I would check RT, impulse response and waterfall to determine whats lacking. You would most likely need some corner traps to help the upper bass bloat, and if necessary...some diffusion if your first reflection panels overabsorb the high frequencies.
I have apanel at first point on the right, left side is a window with a heavy drape, will place another heavy one behind it. will run eq filters and then repost .mdat if that may give you more to look at. Hope to be able to get started on some new panels and corner traps soon.
Foggy1 is online now  
post #20809 of 20816 Old Yesterday, 01:50 PM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Europe, Croatia
Posts: 929
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 542 Post(s)
Liked: 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foggy1 View Post
I have apanel at first point on the right, left side is a window with a heavy drape, will place another heavy one behind it. will run eq filters and then repost .mdat if that may give you more to look at. Hope to be able to get started on some new panels and corner traps soon.
I just check your old mdat. I see Dirac fixed most of the issues. Though you still have couple of strong reflections in first 10 ms of impulse response that need to be addressed with panels.

Revel Ultima Salon 2, Revel M106, Revel C208, Yamaha P5000S, Denon X5200, Panasonic 65" VT50, SVS PC13-Ultra
Kef LS50, Parasound New Classic, Focusrite 2i2
donktard is online now  
post #20810 of 20816 Old Yesterday, 01:50 PM
AVS Special Member
 
markus767's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,008
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3362 Post(s)
Liked: 1209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foggy1 View Post
post 20786 has it.

Thanks Markus
Please only measure single speakers with a timing reference.
Sub region is a mess. Sub seems to be delayed. Do you have a 2nd sub?

Markus

"In science, contrary evidence causes one to question a theory. In religion, contrary evidence causes one to question the evidence." - Floyd Toole
markus767 is offline  
post #20811 of 20816 Old Yesterday, 02:22 PM
Member
 
Foggy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Alpena Mi
Posts: 143
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
Liked: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foggy1 View Post
post 20786 has it.

Thanks Markus
Please only measure single speakers with a timing reference.
Sub region is a mess. Sub seems to be delayed. Do you have a 2nd sub?
. Will do. Borrowed a small sub from my son so I can play with multi sub placement.
Foggy1 is online now  
post #20812 of 20816 Old Yesterday, 02:54 PM
AVS Special Member
 
markus767's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,008
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3362 Post(s)
Liked: 1209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foggy1 View Post
. Will do. Borrowed a small sub from my son so I can play with multi sub placement.
For a first evaluation gain match them and put one sub at the main listening position with the membrane at ear height. Then put the mic at possible sub locations and evaluate the combined sub response with the RTA. Use full rage Pink Noise PN. Make sure "Sequence Length" in generator and "FFT Length" in RTA are the same. Set "Averages" in RTA to "None". The resulting graph should be steady. If not the test signal level is too low.

Markus

"In science, contrary evidence causes one to question a theory. In religion, contrary evidence causes one to question the evidence." - Floyd Toole
markus767 is offline  
post #20813 of 20816 Old Yesterday, 05:34 PM
Member
 
Foggy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Alpena Mi
Posts: 143
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
Liked: 44
ran this before I saw yiur post.. https://www.dropbox.com/s/d0jozo6jqs....mdat?dl=0left, right, and sub
Foggy1 is online now  
post #20814 of 20816 Old Yesterday, 08:19 PM
AVS Special Member
 
artur9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: near philly
Posts: 1,612
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 513 Post(s)
Liked: 165
Found this very good description on group delay.
AustinJerry and Foundation42 like this.
artur9 is offline  
post #20815 of 20816 Old Yesterday, 08:48 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 14,270
Mentioned: 143 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5926 Post(s)
Liked: 3316
Quote:
Originally Posted by artur9 View Post
Found this very good description on group delay.
Nice. Something to read later this evening.
AustinJerry is online now  
post #20816 of 20816 Old Today, 02:46 PM
Member
 
Foundation42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Seattle area
Posts: 68
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by artur9 View Post
Found this very good description on group delay.
Nice article, particularly around tying it to sub integration.
Foundation42 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Audio Theory, Setup, and Chat

Tags
Dayton , Dayton Audio , Room Equilizer Wizard Rew

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off