Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs - Page 694 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #20791 of 21769 Old 12-07-2016, 01:01 PM
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Then toe them OUT.
You'd be surprised at the difference.
I was!
Michael
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post #20792 of 21769 Old 12-08-2016, 12:56 PM
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Latest run. Advice on bass traps, type and where to locate, as well as any other interpretations please.
Waterfall or spectrogram better to evaluate need for bass traps.
Post your room layout; mdat file would be helpful, too.
Michael
. Michael,

Any thoughts on room layout or waterfall
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post #20793 of 21769 Old 12-08-2016, 01:23 PM
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Does EDT and RT have any significance below <100 Hz or should I stick exclusively to waterfall and spectrogram?

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post #20794 of 21769 Old 12-08-2016, 01:58 PM
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Any thoughts on room layout or waterfall
Working tonight. Will try to check when I get home.
Do you have any form of equalization available?
Michael

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post #20795 of 21769 Old 12-08-2016, 03:27 PM
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Any thoughts on room layout or waterfall
Working tonight. Will try to check when I get home.
Do you have any form of equalization available?
Michael
. Yes, can import rew into the xmc-1, and also have dirac, both make a significant difference when applied. Want to make as many improvements as possible first. Just picked up a small sub from my son, going to play with that, better to seperate or stack? Thanks
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post #20796 of 21769 Old 12-08-2016, 03:33 PM
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better to seperate or stack?
I depends.
You have to try it and see.
If it were easy, we wouldn't all be here.
Michael
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post #20797 of 21769 Old 12-08-2016, 07:15 PM
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Staked the sub, sounds phenomenal, prophylactic improvement, rew results don't change.?. Uneven frequency responses seem to me to extend far beoyond sub range, therefore hoping room treatments do the trick. Will work on second sub positioning to see if that helps.?
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post #20798 of 21769 Old 12-08-2016, 07:33 PM
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Sorry, but I have no idea what you just said.
Yes, your frequency response is very uneven. It may be your speakers, it may be your room. A hundred bass traps won't help that.
The green graph is a real improvement over the red. EQ?
However, your decay is HORRIBLE!

You need sound absorption of all kinds everywhere. Start with every pillow you have in the house. Fill the room with them. Run REW again and see if there's a difference.
Michael

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post #20799 of 21769 Old 12-09-2016, 06:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
Sorry, but I have no idea what you just said.
Yes, your frequency response is very uneven. It may be your speakers, it may be your room. A hundred bass traps won't help that.
The green graph is a real improvement over the red. EQ?
However, your decay is HORRIBLE!

You need sound absorption of all kinds everywhere. Start with every pillow you have in the house. Fill the room with them. Run REW again and see if there's a difference.
Michael
Yess that was post equalization. Stacked my subs, not staked. To my ears, everytime I change something it sounds better, thats why I trust the graphs. Rigid, old style, thick, drywall with dead space insulation. Probably ultra reflective. Going to start building broadband absorbers if that sounds like the best approach? Please, lkeep the suggestions coming
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post #20800 of 21769 Old 12-09-2016, 09:58 AM
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Thanks Michael, I will try that. They are toed in at the moment, almost pointing directly to MLP
Any improvement?
Michael

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post #20801 of 21769 Old 12-09-2016, 10:34 AM
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Any improvement?
Michael
LOL haven't had a chance yet, hopefully in the few couple of days..... was working on Submaximus V3 for a buddy last night

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post #20802 of 21769 Old 12-09-2016, 10:53 AM
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Yess that was post equalization. Stacked my subs, not staked. To my ears, everytime I change something it sounds better, thats why I trust the graphs. Rigid, old style, thick, drywall with dead space insulation. Probably ultra reflective. Going to start building broadband absorbers if that sounds like the best approach? Please, lkeep the suggestions coming
Show RT60 graph.

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post #20803 of 21769 Old 12-09-2016, 12:48 PM
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Show RT60 graph.
rt60 of the left, right and sub. Hung as much fluffy stuff as possible and re ran rew, definately helped. Please keep the suggestions coming
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post #20804 of 21769 Old 12-09-2016, 01:21 PM
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or this one, excuse my ignorance
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post #20805 of 21769 Old 12-09-2016, 01:25 PM
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Actually not too bad above a couple of hundred Hertz. Unfortunately damping needs to be at the low end. Can you post your .mdat?

Markus

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post #20806 of 21769 Old 12-09-2016, 01:33 PM
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or this one, excuse my ignorance
Yeah, that one is the way we usually look at it. And just post full range ones, RT is not particularly useful for sub bass.
Looks okayish above 400 Hz, live but ok. Pretty nasty below 400 Hz though.
I wouldn't just throw stuff around the room. I'd start by putting 2" or 4" panels at first reflection points, then I'd find best position for subwoofer(s) and apply room correction (EQ, calibration) if you have avaliable.
After that I would check RT, impulse response and waterfall to determine whats lacking. You would most likely need some corner traps to help the upper bass bloat, and if necessary...some diffusion if your first reflection panels overabsorb the high frequencies.

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post #20807 of 21769 Old 12-09-2016, 01:38 PM
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Actually not too bad above a couple of hundred Hertz. Unfortunately damping needs to be at the low end. Can you post your .mdat?
post 20786 has it.

Thanks Markus
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post #20808 of 21769 Old 12-09-2016, 01:44 PM
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Yeah, that one is the way we usually look at it. And just post full range ones, RT is not particularly useful for sub bass.
Looks okayish above 400 Hz, live but ok. Pretty nasty below 400 Hz though.
I wouldn't just throw stuff around the room. I'd start by putting 2" or 4" panels at first reflection points, then I'd find best position for subwoofer(s) and apply room correction (EQ, calibration) if you have avaliable.
After that I would check RT, impulse response and waterfall to determine whats lacking. You would most likely need some corner traps to help the upper bass bloat, and if necessary...some diffusion if your first reflection panels overabsorb the high frequencies.
I have apanel at first point on the right, left side is a window with a heavy drape, will place another heavy one behind it. will run eq filters and then repost .mdat if that may give you more to look at. Hope to be able to get started on some new panels and corner traps soon.
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post #20809 of 21769 Old 12-09-2016, 01:50 PM
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I have apanel at first point on the right, left side is a window with a heavy drape, will place another heavy one behind it. will run eq filters and then repost .mdat if that may give you more to look at. Hope to be able to get started on some new panels and corner traps soon.
I just check your old mdat. I see Dirac fixed most of the issues. Though you still have couple of strong reflections in first 10 ms of impulse response that need to be addressed with panels.

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post #20810 of 21769 Old 12-09-2016, 01:50 PM
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post 20786 has it.

Thanks Markus
Please only measure single speakers with a timing reference.
Sub region is a mess. Sub seems to be delayed. Do you have a 2nd sub?

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post #20811 of 21769 Old 12-09-2016, 02:22 PM
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post 20786 has it.

Thanks Markus
Please only measure single speakers with a timing reference.
Sub region is a mess. Sub seems to be delayed. Do you have a 2nd sub?
. Will do. Borrowed a small sub from my son so I can play with multi sub placement.
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post #20812 of 21769 Old 12-09-2016, 02:54 PM
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. Will do. Borrowed a small sub from my son so I can play with multi sub placement.
For a first evaluation gain match them and put one sub at the main listening position with the membrane at ear height. Then put the mic at possible sub locations and evaluate the combined sub response with the RTA. Use full rage Pink Noise PN. Make sure "Sequence Length" in generator and "FFT Length" in RTA are the same. Set "Averages" in RTA to "None". The resulting graph should be steady. If not the test signal level is too low.

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post #20813 of 21769 Old 12-09-2016, 05:34 PM
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ran this before I saw yiur post.. https://www.dropbox.com/s/d0jozo6jqs....mdat?dl=0left, right, and sub
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post #20814 of 21769 Old 12-09-2016, 08:19 PM
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Found this very good description on group delay.
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post #20815 of 21769 Old 12-09-2016, 08:48 PM
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Found this very good description on group delay.
Nice. Something to read later this evening.
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post #20816 of 21769 Old 12-10-2016, 02:46 PM
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Found this very good description on group delay.
Nice article, particularly around tying it to sub integration.
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post #20817 of 21769 Old 12-11-2016, 03:37 PM
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Hi,

I finally got a measurement mic and have started to take some measurements. I've rotated my drivers a number of ways and got fairly different differences. I narrowed it down to these because they did not have phase errors and my wife would be most agreeable with them as well as my child won't have access to the controls on the rear of the woofer.

I have a few questions:

1) which position is best and how/why (this is the learning part)?

2) will any of this matter when I get a PEQ?

3) are there any nulls? I'd personally like to have between 20 and 40 maximized so I can get a tactile response.

here are the graphs

Forward facing drivers:

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One facing sectional:

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Hi,

I finally got a measurement mic and have started to take some measurements. I've rotated my drivers a number of ways and got fairly different differences. I narrowed it down to these because they did not have phase errors and my wife would be most agreeable with them as well as my child won't have access to the controls on the rear of the woofer.

I have a few questions:

1) which position is best and how/why (this is the learning part)?

2) will any of this matter when I get a PEQ?

3) are there any nulls? I'd personally like to have between 20 and 40 maximized so I can get a tactile response.
I think how the subs integrate with the mains is important to the overall bass experience. In order to assess this, measurements should be taken with subs+mains as well. And bass measurements are typically up to 300Hz, not cut off at 80 Hz. I would measure center+subs, 10-300Hz, no smoothing.

Are you using room correction, md is it on for the measurements you posted?
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post #20819 of 21769 Old 12-11-2016, 04:28 PM
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I think how the subs integrate with the mains is important to the overall bass experience. In order to assess this, measurements should be taken with subs+mains as well. And bass measurements are typically up to 300Hz, not cut off at 80 Hz. I would measure center+subs, 10-300Hz, no smoothing.

Are you using room correction, md is it on for the measurements you posted?
I turned off room correction (audessey) prior to measuring.

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post #20820 of 21769 Old 12-11-2016, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
I think how the subs integrate with the mains is important to the overall bass experience. In order to assess this, measurements should be taken with subs+mains as well. And bass measurements are typically up to 300Hz, not cut off at 80 Hz. I would measure center+subs, 10-300Hz, no smoothing.

Are you using room correction, md is it on for the measurements you posted?
I retook the measurements with up to 300hz now. Room correction is still off.

Both forward

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One against wall, other forward

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Marantz 7010 for 7.2.4
2 x Paradigm Prestige 75F's
1 x Paradigm Prestige 45C
8 x Paradigm CI Pro P65-R's
Sub 2 x Rythmik LVX12's
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