Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs - Page 727 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 03-07-2017, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Obviously? The mic is acting like there is just ambient noise, no matter what the noise in the room is.
Again, is the mic recognized in control panel "Sound", "Recording" tab? If yes, does the meter move according to the input (speak into the mic)?

Markus

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Old 03-07-2017, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post

Notice the jumpiness between 100-1,000Hz.


Here is the CC Sweep with less smoothing:
Just wondering if anyone has any adivce on how I might be able to tame this jumpines around the crossover through to 300-400hz? If it's room caused, there's not much I can do for now, but if there's other PEQ related steps I'd be willing to try.

My Current "Living Room" Home Theater!
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Old 03-07-2017, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by danielrg View Post
However, if I make two or more measurements at 512K or 1M, I get large dips in some areas above 4000 Hz. It's really weird. Wasn't happening on my other computer. Using a USB UMIK-1, same one I used with my other computer.
Multiple sweeps requires exact time synchronisation between replay and recording. That can't happen when the sweep and the captured signal are from separate devices. To quote the help:
Quote:
REW allows multiple sweeps to be averaged, although best results are generally obtained by using single, longer sweeps rather than multiple, shorter sweeps. Do not use multiple sweeps if the input and output are on different devices (for example, if the input is a USB mic).
I'll add an extra check in the measurement dialog to catch attempts to set multiple sweeps when using a USB mic and prevent it.
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Old 03-07-2017, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Just wondering if anyone has any adivce on how I might be able to tame this jumpines around the crossover through to 300-400hz? If it's room caused, there's not much I can do for now, but if there's other PEQ related steps I'd be willing to try.
These are room related effects. In my book they are also highly harmful to good sound quality. At the same time they are the hardest to treat. EQ can't be used so the only option is to use acoustic treatments.

Markus

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Old 03-07-2017, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
Again, is the mic recognized in control panel "Sound", "Recording" tab? If yes, does the meter move according to the input (speak into the mic)?
No, it moves randomly as if it is just picking up room noise even if I speak, clap, or play AVR test tones.
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Old 03-07-2017, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
No, it moves randomly as if it is just picking up room noise even if I speak, clap, or play AVR test tones.
Can you post a screenshot?

Markus

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Old 03-07-2017, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
These are room related effects. In my book they are also highly harmful to good sound quality. At the same time they are the hardest to treat. EQ can't be used so the only option is to use acoustic treatments.
Figured that. I've already gotten away with doing so much more to my living room than my wife wanted that I won't push it by starting to hangup acoustic treatments. This will have to do until I get around to my basement in a year or so hopefully. Can't wait to start that build!

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Old 03-07-2017, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Just wondering if anyone has any adivce on how I might be able to tame this jumpines around the crossover through to 300-400hz? If it's room caused, there's not much I can do for now, but if there's other PEQ related steps I'd be willing to try.
Did you post your L & R too? Also, a picture of their positioning? You may be able to improve just with positioning.

Is your MLP against a back wall?
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Old 03-07-2017, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Did you post your L & R too? Also, a picture of their positioning? You may be able to improve just with positioning.

Is your MLP against a back wall?
MLP is not against a back wall - it's in middle of room. The room is not a rectangle though, its basically my entire first floor which is in an L shape.

Checkout my post here which has L&R measurements

The Sub by itself has pretty good response how I have it now. When I see how it plays with the other speakers, it's not so great it seems.

My Current "Living Room" Home Theater!
Plasma 50" TV: Samsung PN50C8000 — DLP Projector: Optoma GT1080
Projector Screen: Elite VMAX2 Electric — Receiver:Pioneer Elite VSX-44 — Fronts: B&W 684 S1
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Old 03-07-2017, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
MLP is not against a back wall - it's in middle of room. The room is not a rectangle though, its basically my entire first floor which is in an L shape.

Checkout my post here which has L&R measurements

The Sub by itself has pretty good response how I have it now. When I see how it plays with the other speakers, it's not so great it seems.
Don't stress about it. I wonder how well a REQ that operates in the time domain (Audyssey, Dirac, ARC, etc... not YPAO) would help? I'll see if I can post some full range before and after graphs for my main speakers. YPAO gets choked up by my Mirage Omnipolar speakers. Audyssey XT32 makes an audible & visible difference. I have heard Dirac and ARC are even better. I wouldn't mind having an Arcam processor.

I am ordering bass traps (8 tri-corners) and acoustic panels from lasoundpanels.com. My Mirage utilize 1st reflections so acoustic panels only on front and back walls.
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Old 03-07-2017, 03:23 PM
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@markus767 & @Steve Hanna , thanks for trying to help.

The mic is working now. I noticed some scratches near the top of the mic that could only be TEETH MARKS! My 3.5 year old is still putting everything in his mouth. Now that the mic has dried out, it is working again. I've checked against recent measurements from Friday and Saturday and all is good now!
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Old 03-07-2017, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post

I am ordering bass traps (8 tri-corners) and acoustic panels from lasoundpanels.com. My Mirage utilize 1st reflections so acoustic panels only on front and back walls.
Let us know what you think of their bass traps and panels. I have panels up for reflections but I've been looking around at what to do for bass traps. I hadn't heard of that company before, but looking at their site, their Lo-Tone traps might be interesting.
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Old 03-07-2017, 09:40 PM
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haven't had an opportunity yet to even things out in the main theater setup so i messed with the spare room subs instead tonight. moved both up front and level matched them at 0 on the receiver and at 75 decibels using my radio shack analog meter. sounds smoother than before but i can tell one is a sealed sub. one day i'll switch to dual sealed with the um15 package. subs measured here are the SVS PB10 NSD and Definitive Pro Sub 800. included the pre level match measurement of the prosub which seemed to fair well to an extent even though it does suck compared to an actual real sub with a wider frequency range.
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Pioneer Elite SC-05
JBL Studio S312II fronts, JBL Studio S10IIs mid and S8IIs rear.
Single JBL S38 center channel
Power Sound Audio V1800, 2 MFW-15's, DIY ported UM18-22, Prosub 800
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Old 03-08-2017, 07:58 AM
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moved both up front and level matched them at 0 on the receiver and at 75 decibels using my radio shack analog meter.
Using what to generate the pink noise? Your AVR?

You have REW, why aren't you level matching using your microphone and pink noise from REW? This would be more accurate than an SPL meter.
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Old 03-08-2017, 09:21 AM
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So I finally got time to post a graph of what happened when I switched the phase on my subs and had to ask some questions to make sure I did things right.

Below is a graph of the BEFORE, AFTER and when I switched a SINGLE subs phase.

After I switched phase on both subs, should I have re-run XT32 or not? Should I switch the phase on just one and not the other, etc?

Also any thoughts on things to play around with?


My Setup | FS: Nothing right now

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Old 03-08-2017, 09:45 AM
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So I finally got time to post a graph of what happened when I switched the phase on my subs and had to ask some questions to make sure I did things right.

Below is a graph of the BEFORE, AFTER and when I switched a SINGLE subs phase.

After I switched phase on both subs, should I have re-run XT32 or not? Should I switch the phase on just one and not the other, etc?

Also any thoughts on things to play around with?

[...]
First optimize your subs for low seat to seat differences. Then run MultEQ. Play with crossover and sub delay for further optimization.

Markus

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Old 03-08-2017, 10:29 AM
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So I finally got time to post a graph of what happened when I switched the phase on my subs and had to ask some questions to make sure I did things right.

Below is a graph of the BEFORE, AFTER and when I switched a SINGLE subs phase.

After I switched phase on both subs, should I have re-run XT32 or not? Should I switch the phase on just one and not the other, etc?

Also any thoughts on things to play around with?
Please re-post the graph with the Freq. Axis toggled. This graph is set to Linear (all octaves have equal spacing) when you want it set to Logarithmic.
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Old 03-08-2017, 11:55 AM
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First optimize your subs for low seat to seat differences. Then run MultEQ. Play with crossover and sub delay for further optimization.
Pretty much done all that. Cant move either of them much, and moving them doesnt change anything in the measurements. Played around with distances of both subs and crossover settings.

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Please re-post the graph with the Freq. Axis toggled. This graph is set to Linear (all octaves have equal spacing) when you want it set to Logarithmic.
Like this?


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Quote: There exists, for everyone, a sentence - a series of words - that has the power to destroy you. Another sentence exists, another series of words, that could heal you. If you're lucky you will get the 2nd, but you can be certain of getting the 1st. - Philip K. Dick
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Old 03-08-2017, 12:11 PM
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Pretty much done all that.
Can you post the .mdat showing that data?

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Cant move either of them much, and moving them doesnt change anything in the measurements.
If you don't see any changes after moving subs you're doing something wrong.

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Played around with distances of both subs and crossover settings.
What are the results? Inconclusive? Then go back and start with a general assessment of your room's acoustics.

Markus

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Old 03-08-2017, 01:11 PM
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Like this?

Yup.

I'd go with the phase reversed on both subs.
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Old 03-08-2017, 01:36 PM
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And an xo of 80. Let's see it now with the center (or L + R, if your main interest is music).
Michael

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Old 03-08-2017, 02:48 PM
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Yup.

I'd go with the phase reversed on both subs.
Any suggestions on if the stuff above 80 Hz is an issue?

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Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
And an xo of 80. Let's see it now with the center (or L + R, if your main interest is music).
Michael
Will try to get these tonight if possible.

PS that is with an XO of 80.

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Old 03-08-2017, 03:10 PM
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Some (most?) people just hear what they want to hear...

Markus

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Old 03-08-2017, 03:55 PM
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Some (most?) people just hear what they want to hear...
.......??

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Quote: There exists, for everyone, a sentence - a series of words - that has the power to destroy you. Another sentence exists, another series of words, that could heal you. If you're lucky you will get the 2nd, but you can be certain of getting the 1st. - Philip K. Dick
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Old 03-08-2017, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post

I'd go with the phase reversed on both subs.
I must not be understanding the measurements. If you have two subs, and are measuring the subs only, then reversing the polarity on both subs will produce the exact same measurement. Please help me understand what is being measured.
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Old 03-08-2017, 04:45 PM
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I must not be understanding the measurements. If you have two subs, and are measuring the subs only, then reversing the polarity on both subs will produce the exact same measurement. Please help me understand what is being measured.
The massive dip right above 80hz in the original measurement (subs same phase as mains) that is MUCH better in the subs with phase inverted from mains measurement.

My Setup | FS: Nothing right now

Quote: There exists, for everyone, a sentence - a series of words - that has the power to destroy you. Another sentence exists, another series of words, that could heal you. If you're lucky you will get the 2nd, but you can be certain of getting the 1st. - Philip K. Dick
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Old 03-08-2017, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by EndersShadow View Post
The massive dip right above 80hz in the original measurement (subs same phase as mains) that is MUCH better in the subs with phase inverted from mains measurement.
I asked for clarification for what the measurements represent. Are the measurements with subs+mains, or subs only?
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Old 03-08-2017, 05:26 PM
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I asked for clarification for what the measurements represent. Are the measurements with subs+mains, or subs only?
Apologies. It is left + subs. Is there a way to do a L/R + subs? In a single measurement?

Left Original
Left with a single sub with inverted phase
Left with both subs with inverted phase

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Old 03-09-2017, 12:59 AM
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.......??
You've ignored my questions/suggestions. By the way, did you read Jerry's guide? https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...%20Version.pdf

Markus

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Old 03-09-2017, 06:12 AM
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You've ignored my questions/suggestions. By the way, did you read Jerry's guide? https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...%20Version.pdf
Your question about .mdata was added after I saw your original post, just like you adjusted this post to add the part about Jerry's guide after I had already reviewed the responses to this thread earlier this morning.

I have downloaded and reviewed Jerry's guide as well as MTG90's thread about optimizing multiple subwoofers. Jerrys guide is how I was able to get measurements at all.

Your question about proof that I've optimized is farther back in this thread but I will repost here. Overall I have over 75+ measurements of the mains + sub and rather than bore everyone with the bad ones, or incrementally good ones I posted mainly where I ended up at the end of each nights tweaking.

This is the first night of attempting to integrate my 2 subs with my mains. The graph is NOT logarithmic and I forget which of the 75 measurements these two represent so I wont be able to go back in and redo it as logarithmic for a perfect A/B of what I have now.

Additionally I dont have a lot of flexibility to move things around at all, so basically at this point my options are I can move my mains maybe a foot farther out from each other and thats about it. And I've measured what happens when I move the mains out or toe them in and it is not any better than what I have now.

Quote:
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Slowly getting there... still not sure how to address the crossover issues between my subs and the mains. I tried crossing the mains over at 80, 100hz with the LFE @ 150 even and still nothing.

Tweaked with the distances of the subs and got a better response but still not perfect.

Whats hard to see is that the tweaked Left and Right response are VERY close to each other, as opposed to the originals where they were totally out of whack.

But here you go.

Left


Right


Subs

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Quote: There exists, for everyone, a sentence - a series of words - that has the power to destroy you. Another sentence exists, another series of words, that could heal you. If you're lucky you will get the 2nd, but you can be certain of getting the 1st. - Philip K. Dick
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