Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs - Page 736 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #22051 of 23611 Old 03-23-2017, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by David Varner View Post
I wouldn't expect them to be the same. The mic's are differnet models and assume John wants the data so he can make adjustments in the REW programming for Windows 10 and the UMM-6. I don't see how it really matters as long as he has a solid relation ship to the SPL reading and the windows mic level. No I did the test according to what I was doing previously I gave John the parameters and he said it was ok. the only thing I changed was only using one speaker and I was about 3ft away. I am also am using a boom mic stand.
David, did you even look at my data? I have both the UMM-6 and the UMIK-1, and measured both. The point I am making is that my UMM-6 readings are quite different from yours. One of us is showing bad data. Did you compare your calibration file with mine to see if the sensitivity factors are similar???
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post #22052 of 23611 Old 03-23-2017, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
David, did you even look at my data? I have both the UMM-6 and the UMIK-1, and measured both. The point I am making is that my UMM-6 readings are quite different from yours. One of us is showing bad data. Did you compare your calibration file with mine to see if the sensitivity factors are similar???
I just went back and reread your post ok. here is my sens file.
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post #22053 of 23611 Old 03-23-2017, 04:21 PM
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I see absolutly no correlation between UMM-6 numbers especially my mic 107db to 88.5 going from 0% to 10%
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post #22054 of 23611 Old 03-23-2017, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by David Varner View Post
I see absolutly no correlation between UMM-6 numbers especially my mic 107db to 88.5 going from 0% to 10%
Yes, very different indeed. Our calibration files are somewhat different as well. Maybe John will have a good explanation.
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post #22055 of 23611 Old 03-23-2017, 04:42 PM
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I redid the test and I see that I wote down the SPL reading in REW and not the dBFS in the input level (horizontal bar). Here are the result of the exact test done exactly as link you sent me with the proper dBFS readings.

Windows 10 Home Version 10.0.14393 Build 14393

CM-140 SPL reading 91dB

0%-52.3dBfs
10-50.9
20-49.6
30-48.3
40-45.7
50-44.5
60-40.5
70-37.8
80-33.9
90-28.5
100-23.2

I had the level a little higher but it looks like are number are moving pretty close together I think it looks pretty good

Last edited by David Varner; 03-23-2017 at 04:47 PM.
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post #22056 of 23611 Old 03-23-2017, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Varner View Post
I redid the test and I see that I wote down the SPL reading in REW and not the dBFS in the input level (horizontal bar). Here are the result of the exact test done exactly as link you sent me with the proper dBFS readings.

Windows 10 Home Version 10.0.14393 Build 14393

CM-140 SPL reading 91dB

0%-52.3dBfs
10-50.9
20-49.6
30-48.3
40-45.7
50-44.5
60-40.5
70-37.8
80-33.9
90-28.5
100-23.2
Those look better, David. The differences are now small, and probably within the manufacturing tolerances of the mics. Let's see what John has to say.
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post #22057 of 23611 Old 03-23-2017, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Your questions lead me to believe that you have not read and followed Step 8 (p 23) in the MiniDSP implementation guide linked in my sig. It has step-by-step instructions. Have you reviewed the guide?
Thanks !


I had jotted down some notes, but should have opened yout guide back up, I was getting hung up on send file to EQ as that is no longer a REW option.

I will have to open up REW when I get home, but I believe it gives 2 options there now.......one to save the file and one to save the file as a text file, although both do the same and save as a text file.

I believe the send to EQ is no longer a option..........but both the new text and old text appear to do the same thing.

I also see from your guide, which I should have just used/had open that the new EQ filtered response is only marginally better. I just assumed it would be much better. I have enough experiance now to also determine I have no idea what actually is better, because both do not look ideal.

I need to remper my expectations with reality and educate myself better on what is actually considered better and at what point it will not get any better.

I guess more reading and more use will get me a better understanding....

Thanks.....

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http://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...i-version.html
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post #22058 of 23611 Old 03-23-2017, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by unretarded View Post
Thanks !


I had jotted down some notes, but should have opened yout guide back up, I was getting hung up on send file to EQ as that is no longer a REW option.

I will have to open up REW when I get home, but I believe it gives 2 options there now.......one to save the file and one to save the file as a text file, although both do the same and save as a text file.

I believe the send to EQ is no longer a option..........but both the new text and old text appear to do the same thing.

I also see from your guide, which I should have just used/had open that the new EQ filtered response is only marginally better. I just assumed it would be much better. I have enough experiance now to also determine I have no idea what actually is better, because both do not look ideal.

I need to remper my expectations with reality and educate myself better on what is actually considered better and at what point it will not get any better.

I guess more reading and more use will get me a better understanding....

Thanks.....
I believe the new option is "Export filters as text". I need to update the guide--I don't know when that change occurred.
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post #22059 of 23611 Old 03-24-2017, 01:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
I believe the new option is "Export filters as text". I need to update the guide--I don't know when that change occurred.
John likes to keep the REW goalposts moving, makes things more interesting for new comers😂

Keep up Jerry, best regards, Mike.
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post #22060 of 23611 Old 03-24-2017, 07:32 AM
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Hi guys,
When I take reading and look at Waterfall, I see a 7dB high mountain popping out at 60hz from bottom of graph all the way out. Its very thin though. Its height doesn't change as it grows out at all and keeps on going. If I change the time from 300ms to 800ms, its still there the same way but if I change to say 1100ms, then I see it disappearing.
Is it the room ringing on 60Hz or a mic related issue? I didn't see it before and now I do. I can post Waterfall which will be more helpful then explaining in words but don't have access to my pc as of now and its really bothering me. So posting now to get some expert advice

Thanks.
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post #22061 of 23611 Old 03-24-2017, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by harrisu View Post
Hi guys,
When I take reading and look at Waterfall, I see a 7dB high mountain popping out at 60hz from bottom of graph all the way out. Its very thin though. Its height doesn't change as it grows out at all and keeps on going. If I change the time from 300ms to 800ms, its still there the same way but if I change to say 1100ms, then I see it disappearing.
Is it the room ringing on 60Hz or a mic related issue? I didn't see it before and now I do. I can post Waterfall which will be more helpful then explaining in words but don't have access to my pc as of now and its really bothering me. So posting now to get some expert advice

Thanks.
That's hum.

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post #22062 of 23611 Old 03-24-2017, 08:23 AM
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That's hum.
Sorry Markus, can you please explain in a bit more detail please and what can be done to get rid of it?
Thx
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post #22063 of 23611 Old 03-24-2017, 08:49 AM
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Sorry Markus, can you please explain in a bit more detail please and what can be done to get rid of it?
Thx
Assuming you live in the US, 60Hz is the frequency of our electrical network. If you don't hear hum coming from the speakers, you can probably ignore it. If you do hear a hum, then there are a wealth of suggestions on how to address hum. Not the focus of the REW thread, though.
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post #22064 of 23611 Old 03-24-2017, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by AV_mike View Post
John likes to keep the REW goalposts moving, makes things more interesting for new comers😂

Keep up Jerry, best regards, Mike.
And I rely on, and encourage, users of the guide to report stale content so that I can keep it current. Thanks!
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post #22065 of 23611 Old 03-24-2017, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
I believe the new option is "Export filters as text".
Which, BTW, I'd love to have as a shortcut/function key, since I use it frequently and navigating the menu is not as convenient.
Feature request for John.
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post #22066 of 23611 Old 03-24-2017, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Assuming you live in the US, 60Hz is the frequency of our electrical network. If you don't hear hum coming from the speakers, you can probably ignore it. If you do hear a hum, then there are a wealth of suggestions on how to address hum. Not the focus of the REW thread, though.
Thx Jerry. I do live in US. Hum from speakers or Subs?
I hear the hiss coming from speakers but that's common when Dirac is in chain. I have always had it. So not a hum but a hiss. I'll double check it.
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post #22067 of 23611 Old 03-24-2017, 09:59 AM
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Thx Jerry. I do live in US. Hum from speakers or Subs?
I hear the hiss coming from speakers but that's common when Dirac is in chain. I have always had it. So not a hum but a hiss. I'll double check it.
A 60Hz electrical hum can manifest itself in different ways. If it were audible, I would think you would be able to hear it in the low frequency driver of your main speakers.

BTW, how bad is the hiss coming from Dirac--can you hear it from the MLP? Do you mean the 88A? If yes, are you running balanced or RCA connections?

I have a very low-level hiss, completely unnoticeable at the MLP, using balanced cables. My efforts to eliminate the hiss have not been successful, and I have tried just about everything except switching to unbalanced connections.
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post #22068 of 23611 Old 03-24-2017, 10:21 AM
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A 60Hz electrical hum can manifest itself in different ways. If it were audible, I would think you would be able to hear it in the low frequency driver of your main speakers.

BTW, how bad is the hiss coming from Dirac--can you hear it from the MLP? Do you mean the 88A? If yes, are you running balanced or RCA connections?

I have a very low-level hiss, completely unnoticeable at the MLP, using balanced cables. My efforts to eliminate the hiss have not been successful, and I have tried just about everything except switching to unbalanced connections.
I used to hear the hum from sub that is behind the screen which is too far to hear at MLP unless I go behind the screen but I always thought that its the amp that's making the noise. I in fact never even saw that impacting waterfall until recently.

I use 88A (with your custom curve ) using RCA Cable. The hiss is not noticeable unless I put my head next to speaker. In other words, It doesn't catch my attention when I walk into the room and my room is completely sealed and low floor noise. So its really not that audible.

I'll post Waterfall later today to have you (or Markus) look at it to see if its actually the hum.
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post #22069 of 23611 Old 03-24-2017, 10:38 AM
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I'll post Waterfall later today to have you (or Markus) look at it to see if its actually the hum.
If you can unplug that sub when you run the measurement, it might show whether the sub is the source of the hum.
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post #22070 of 23611 Old 03-24-2017, 11:04 AM
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If you can unplug that sub when you run the measurement, it might show whether the sub is the source of the hum.
Since the mountain is at 60Hz (precisely), I'm assuming that you'd want me to set speaker to Large before taking the measurement since my CO is @ 80? If I don't set it to Large, we'll have nothing till we get to 80.
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post #22071 of 23611 Old 03-24-2017, 11:19 AM
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Since the mountain is at 60Hz (precisely), I'm assuming that you'd want me to set speaker to Large before taking the measurement since my CO is @ 80? If I don't set it to Large, we'll have nothing till we get to 80.
Yes, good idea.
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post #22072 of 23611 Old 03-24-2017, 11:39 AM
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I'll post Waterfall later today to have you (or Markus) look at it to see if its actually the hum.
A spectrograph would show it better; it's actually looking "down" on the waterfall.
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post #22073 of 23611 Old 03-24-2017, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Varner View Post
I redid the test and I see that I wote down the SPL reading in REW and not the dBFS in the input level (horizontal bar). Here are the result of the exact test done exactly as link you sent me with the proper dBFS readings.

Windows 10 Home Version 10.0.14393 Build 14393

CM-140 SPL reading 91dB

0%-52.3dBfs
10-50.9
20-49.6
30-48.3
40-45.7
50-44.5
60-40.5
70-37.8
80-33.9
90-28.5
100-23.2
Can you both also tell me what the dB figures in your input volume controls show at the various settings from 0% to 100%? Not the signal levels, the volume control dB gain figures (e.g. 0 dB at 0%, 20 dB at 100%).
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post #22074 of 23611 Old 03-24-2017, 12:43 PM
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Windows 10 Home Version 10.0.14393 Build 14393

Here are my results:

SPL on CM-140 remained at 90.5db the entire test

0%-107db
10-88.5
20-84
30-82.5
40-82
50-82
60-84
70-86
80-88
90-92
100-96.5

This is with the dB figures

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

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post #22075 of 23611 Old 03-24-2017, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnPM View Post
Can you both also tell me what the dB figures in your input volume controls show at the various settings from 0% to 100%? Not the signal levels, the volume control dB gain figures (e.g. 0 dB at 0%, 20 dB at 100%).
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Varner View Post
Windows 10 Home Version 10.0.14393 Build 14393

Here are my results:

SPL on CM-140 remained at 90.5db the entire test

0%-107db
10-88.5
20-84
30-82.5
40-82
50-82
60-84
70-86
80-88
90-92
100-96.5

This is with the dB figures

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
David, it doesn't seem like you followed John's instructions. My results (attached) are completely different from yours.

John, my dBFS values are slightly different because I started over from scratch, and the mic placement and MV setting were likely a bit different.
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post #22076 of 23611 Old 03-24-2017, 01:59 PM
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It's the volume control figures I'm after rather than the outputs of the mic, which Jerry included in his results - I expect they are the same for both of you. It is odd that the volume control is saying that 100% corresponds to 20 dB of gain, but the input level has increased by just over 29 dB. Suggests the figure displayed in the volume control when it is in dB mode is wrong.
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post #22077 of 23611 Old 03-24-2017, 02:11 PM
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Yes, good idea.
Cool
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Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
A spectrograph would show it better; it's actually looking "down" on the waterfall.
Michael
Sure. How about both. I'll post both. In Spectrograph, it shows a thin line going across the screen.
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post #22078 of 23611 Old 03-24-2017, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by harrisu View Post
Since the mountain is at 60Hz (precisely),
I think the bulk of my audiophilia time is spent fighting hum from various things and other sources of noise. All forms of hum aggravates my tinnitus.
The weirdest source was a wine refrigerator on the floor above the "man cave." Put some sorbothane under that and voila! no hum.
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post #22079 of 23611 Old 03-24-2017, 04:25 PM
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You're not alone. I have a strip of carpet under and behind my refrigerator.
IIRC, I used REW to track that down, too.
Michael

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post #22080 of 23611 Old 03-24-2017, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
That's hum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
A 60Hz electrical hum can manifest itself in different ways. If it were audible, I would think you would be able to hear it in the low frequency driver of your main speakers.

BTW, how bad is the hiss coming from Dirac--can you hear it from the MLP? Do you mean the 88A? If yes, are you running balanced or RCA connections?

I have a very low-level hiss, completely unnoticeable at the MLP, using balanced cables. My efforts to eliminate the hiss have not been successful, and I have tried just about everything except switching to unbalanced connections.
Here is the Waterfall and Spectrogram showing 60Hz. Please note that waterfall is at 1000ms and even then its there



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