Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs - Page 750 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #22471 of 22496 Old 04-27-2017, 07:42 PM
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I would first measure the different settings with REW and THEN see if I could hear a difference.
May as well start off at least close to where you'll probably end up.
Michael

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post #22472 of 22496 Old Yesterday, 07:31 PM
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Decided to do some Waterfall comparisons between Low, Mid, and High Damping on my FV15HP tonight. The sweeps used to generate these were including my Left and Right as well since the guide suggested so. Can someone tell me if I am doing something wrong? Low damping should have the most ringing, followed by mid, then high. My graphs seem to show the opposite. Is it likely due more to my left and right channel maybe?

Low Damping


Mid Damping


High Damping


Here is the Frequency Response graph which does look as to be expected.
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My Current "Living Room" Home Theater!
Plasma 50" TV: Samsung PN50C8000 — DLP Projector: Optoma GT1080
Projector Screen: Elite VMAX2 Electric — Receiver:Pioneer Elite VSX-44 — Fronts: B&W 684 S1
Center: B&W CM Center S2 — Surrounds: B&W 685 S1 — Subwoofer: Rythmik FV15HP
Rear Surrounds: Polk Audio T15 — Front Heights: Polk Audio T15
Check out my most recent subwoofer frequency response (1 vs. 2 port) and full system response.

Last edited by citsur86; Yesterday at 07:37 PM.
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post #22473 of 22496 Old Yesterday, 07:46 PM
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So here is another question for the REW gurus! I created a new set of PEQ filters through REW EQ tab.

Here is how I designed it:


Here is a visual representation of the PEQ filters:


And here is the Frequency Response Graph it generated:


Pretty good right! Except one thing - it sounds like garbage - and I don't mean that in a subjective way. It snaps crackles and pops worse than the rice krispy kids. Here is audio of that sweep.

SO I ask the REW wizards - how can a graph get created from such a horrible sounding sweep? The lower frequencies are seriously awful. Any time I wind up with filters that include a boost in the lower frequencies, this vibrato grinding sound it present.

.MDAT file is here for anyone interested in taking a look.
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My Current "Living Room" Home Theater!
Plasma 50" TV: Samsung PN50C8000 — DLP Projector: Optoma GT1080
Projector Screen: Elite VMAX2 Electric — Receiver:Pioneer Elite VSX-44 — Fronts: B&W 684 S1
Center: B&W CM Center S2 — Surrounds: B&W 685 S1 — Subwoofer: Rythmik FV15HP
Rear Surrounds: Polk Audio T15 — Front Heights: Polk Audio T15
Check out my most recent subwoofer frequency response (1 vs. 2 port) and full system response.

Last edited by citsur86; Yesterday at 07:57 PM.
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post #22474 of 22496 Old Yesterday, 08:05 PM
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I cant give any help other than sharing my waterfall with rhythmik 15hp from couple years ago with I think same settings and big open room. it may not be pretty but this was the graph I thought sounded good at the time.
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post #22475 of 22496 Old Yesterday, 09:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
So here is another question for the REW gurus! I created a new set of PEQ filters through REW EQ tab.

Here is how I designed it:


Here is a visual representation of the PEQ filters:


And here is the Frequency Response Graph it generated:


Pretty good right! Except one thing - it sounds like garbage - and I don't mean that in a subjective way. It snaps crackles and pops worse than the rice krispy kids. Here is audio of that sweep.

SO I ask the REW wizards - how can a graph get created from such a horrible sounding sweep? The lower frequencies are seriously awful. Any time I wind up with filters that include a boost in the lower frequencies, this vibrato grinding sound it present.

.MDAT file is here for anyone interested in taking a look.
Sometimes REW gets noisy for me so I close and restart it. I don't have a MiniDSP but I generally like to have REW generate a CUT only set of filters (0 boost). You may want to try it.
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post #22476 of 22496 Old Yesterday, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
So here is another question for the REW gurus! I created a new set of PEQ filters through REW EQ tab.

Here is how I designed it:


Here is a visual representation of the PEQ filters:


And here is the Frequency Response Graph it generated:


Pretty good right! Except one thing - it sounds like garbage - and I don't mean that in a subjective way. It snaps crackles and pops worse than the rice krispy kids. Here is audio of that sweep.

SO I ask the REW wizards - how can a graph get created from such a horrible sounding sweep? The lower frequencies are seriously awful. Any time I wind up with filters that include a boost in the lower frequencies, this vibrato grinding sound it present.

.MDAT file is here for anyone interested in taking a look.
I am no pro by far, but I have dome hundreds of sweeps and played with settings a lot.


Those look pretty good to me, significant output down to right below 12hz....small room induced dip.......Everything I have read states getting the waterfall down under 300 ms takes a highly treated room, unless you get very lucky.

I would love to dig flat down to 12hz, mine drop like a rock at 25hz....... But what can one expect for a 200 dollar sub....


I say nice job ! I would still play with it some more as it costs nothing. Maybe a wide filter centered around 49hz with a bump of 2 db maybe 3 and see what it does. You will never PEQ out that small 63hz room induced dip. I tried.....the more you boost it, the deeper it gets......


PS.....

Yes, I get the crackles during sweeps also sometimes........restart or if I set it to do 3 or 5 sweeps it will do one without the crackles, they seem to be above the frequency of a sub sweep, so not sure what or why, but the readings are not affected on my sweeps.

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http://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...i-version.html

Last edited by unretarded; Yesterday at 11:12 PM.
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post #22477 of 22496 Old Today, 05:05 AM
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I moved my sub just 1 foot left of the previous spot and the 42Hz dip I had is all but gone. Now I have +/- 3dB from 21Hz to 102Hz.

No boost filters used.






(I was playing with boost filters (see link in sig) and it never sounded right but I didn't think moving it 1ft would solve the issue with cut only filters... doh!)
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Current Setup REW measures

UN46EH6030 Calibration/Settings

Samsung UN46EH6030; Yamaha HTR-3066, SVS Prime Bookshelf Mains and Prime Center, Cambridge S20 Surrounds, Rythmik LV12R; PS4 Slim, Xbox One, Xfinity X1 (CI CXD01ANI)
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post #22478 of 22496 Old Today, 05:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unretarded View Post
I am no pro by far, but I have dome hundreds of sweeps and played with settings a lot.





Those look pretty good to me, significant output down to right below 12hz....small room induced dip.......Everything I have read states getting the waterfall down under 300 ms takes a highly treated room, unless you get very lucky.



I would love to dig flat down to 12hz, mine drop like a rock at 25hz....... But what can one expect for a 200 dollar sub....





I say nice job ! I would still play with it some more as it costs nothing. Maybe a wide filter centered around 49hz with a bump of 2 db maybe 3 and see what it does. You will never PEQ out that small 63hz room induced dip. I tried.....the more you boost it, the deeper it gets......





PS.....



Yes, I get the crackles during sweeps also sometimes........restart or if I set it to do 3 or 5 sweeps it will do one without the crackles, they seem to be above the frequency of a sub sweep, so not sure what or why, but the readings are not affected on my sweeps.


Yeah that vibrating crackling noise is not an REW thing. I've gotten those before and restarting REW fixes. This sound is coming as a result of a PEQ boost filter down low. My main question is how can the sweep sound so bad but look so good?

My Current "Living Room" Home Theater!
Plasma 50" TV: Samsung PN50C8000 — DLP Projector: Optoma GT1080
Projector Screen: Elite VMAX2 Electric — Receiver:Pioneer Elite VSX-44 — Fronts: B&W 684 S1
Center: B&W CM Center S2 — Surrounds: B&W 685 S1 — Subwoofer: Rythmik FV15HP
Rear Surrounds: Polk Audio T15 — Front Heights: Polk Audio T15
Check out my most recent subwoofer frequency response (1 vs. 2 port) and full system response.
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post #22479 of 22496 Old Today, 05:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Yeah that vibrating crackling noise is not an REW thing. I've gotten those before and restarting REW fixes. This sound is coming as a result of a PEQ boost filter down low. My main question is how can the sweep sound so bad but look so good?
distortion and ringing (driver and amp are working much harder when you boost ulf)

also, if you don't sit exactly where mic is placed any boosted dips make actual become boosted modal peaks

Current Setup REW measures

UN46EH6030 Calibration/Settings

Samsung UN46EH6030; Yamaha HTR-3066, SVS Prime Bookshelf Mains and Prime Center, Cambridge S20 Surrounds, Rythmik LV12R; PS4 Slim, Xbox One, Xfinity X1 (CI CXD01ANI)
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post #22480 of 22496 Old Today, 06:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
So here is another question for the REW gurus! I created a new set of PEQ filters through REW EQ tab.

Here is how I designed it:


Here is a visual representation of the PEQ filters:


And here is the Frequency Response Graph it generated:


Pretty good right! Except one thing - it sounds like garbage - and I don't mean that in a subjective way. It snaps crackles and pops worse than the rice krispy kids. Here is audio of that sweep.

SO I ask the REW wizards - how can a graph get created from such a horrible sounding sweep? The lower frequencies are seriously awful. Any time I wind up with filters that include a boost in the lower frequencies, this vibrato grinding sound it present.

.MDAT file is here for anyone interested in taking a look.
also, as a heads up, eq (MiniDSP/REW or AVR auto room EQ) should be done in low damping (and 14hz, 1 port)... afterwards switch to high for listening

Current Setup REW measures

UN46EH6030 Calibration/Settings

Samsung UN46EH6030; Yamaha HTR-3066, SVS Prime Bookshelf Mains and Prime Center, Cambridge S20 Surrounds, Rythmik LV12R; PS4 Slim, Xbox One, Xfinity X1 (CI CXD01ANI)
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post #22481 of 22496 Old Today, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
also, as a heads up, eq (MiniDSP/REW or AVR auto room EQ) should be done in low damping (and 14hz, 1 port)... afterwards switch to high for listening


Good to know thanks.

My Current "Living Room" Home Theater!
Plasma 50" TV: Samsung PN50C8000 — DLP Projector: Optoma GT1080
Projector Screen: Elite VMAX2 Electric — Receiver:Pioneer Elite VSX-44 — Fronts: B&W 684 S1
Center: B&W CM Center S2 — Surrounds: B&W 685 S1 — Subwoofer: Rythmik FV15HP
Rear Surrounds: Polk Audio T15 — Front Heights: Polk Audio T15
Check out my most recent subwoofer frequency response (1 vs. 2 port) and full system response.
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post #22482 of 22496 Old Today, 09:29 AM
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My FV18s sound so good in my system I have decided against making any further changes based on REW for the time being. I know that using REW to refine the initial Sub settings that YPAO applied would probably improve the sound somewhat. Nevertheless, notwithstanding the possible improvement an REW tweak might provide, I am going to continue to enjoy what I've got for the moment. I have a bunch of movies with demonstration quality LFE to watch and don't want to get diverted until I've had a chance to enjoy the FV18s pounding out that low frequency goodness.

Despite the foregoing, I have discovered a great place to put my UMIK-1 when I do take on REW again. The large recliner that I have at my MLP has a broad horizontal surface on top if its back. If I place the mic there, on its little tripod, the head of the mic will only be about an inch from where my head is when I'm watching TV or a movie. There's a bonus too. That location means the mic won't rest on or even to be very close to any reflective surfaces.

HT setup: Sony 75XBR X940D UHD HDR TV; Kaleidescape Strato Movie Server 6 TB; Yamaha RX-A3060 AV receiver; Sonamp 2-1 2channel 100W power amp; Crestron Control System; 2 Rythmik FV18 subwoofers, 6 Hsu HB-1 Bookshelf speakers, 1 Hsu HC-1 Center speaker, 4 Focal ICW8 in-ceiling Atmos speakers; Oppo UDP-203 4K HDR BD player; Mac Mini HTPC. TiVO Bolt 1TB DVR; TiVo Premiere Elite 2 TB DVR
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post #22483 of 22496 Old Today, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by gwsat View Post
My FV18s sound so good in my system I have decided against making any further changes based on REW for the time being. I know that using REW to refine the initial Sub settings that YPAO applied would probably improve the sound somewhat. Nevertheless, notwithstanding the possible improvement an REW tweak might provide, I am going to continue to enjoy what I've got for the moment. I have a bunch of movies with demonstration quality LFE to watch and don't want to get diverted until I've had a chance to enjoy the FV18s pounding out that low frequency goodness.

Despite the foregoing, I have discovered a great place to put my UMIK-1 when I do take on REW again. The large recliner that I have at my MLP has a broad horizontal surface on top if its back. If I place the mic there, on its little tripod, the head of the mic will only be about an inch from where my head is when I'm watching TV or a movie. There's a bonus too. That location means the mic won't rest on or even to be very close to any reflective surfaces.
Are you going to measure the current sub performance and post the results?
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post #22484 of 22496 Old Today, 11:09 AM
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That location means the mic won't rest on or even to be very close to any reflective surfaces.
Except that the mic will be ON the recliner. Not ideal.
Michael

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Are you going to measure the current sub performance and post the results?
Jerry I do intend to post the results after I run YPAO but that will have to wait until after I watch more films that have first class LFE.

HT setup: Sony 75XBR X940D UHD HDR TV; Kaleidescape Strato Movie Server 6 TB; Yamaha RX-A3060 AV receiver; Sonamp 2-1 2channel 100W power amp; Crestron Control System; 2 Rythmik FV18 subwoofers, 6 Hsu HB-1 Bookshelf speakers, 1 Hsu HC-1 Center speaker, 4 Focal ICW8 in-ceiling Atmos speakers; Oppo UDP-203 4K HDR BD player; Mac Mini HTPC. TiVO Bolt 1TB DVR; TiVo Premiere Elite 2 TB DVR
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post #22486 of 22496 Old Today, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
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That location means the mic won't rest on or even to be very close to any reflective surfaces.
Except that the mic will be ON the recliner. Not ideal.
Michael
Do you mean vibrations through the recliner will be different than those from the floor directly?

I place mine on my bed with the mini tripod because my head is inches from the mattress. And I place the YPAO mic right on the pillows where my head goes. Both get the tip of the mic in the right spot and height, facing the ceiling or very close. I don't use the pillows for the UMIK-1 as it is for sub EQ only and the pillow would place it too high relative to ear level.

Would this corrupt my measures?

Bed is sleep number and has a slight incline for watching movies (2 way adjustable base). It is along right wall, NOT anywhere near back wall as many have assumed.
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Would this corrupt my measures?
You will never know unless you try the recommended boom mic stand. We try to recommend best practices in this thread because they have been shown by many users over a long period of time to produce the best results. It is discouraging when we receive thanks for our efforts to help people, only to see our advice being ignored.
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Well I was going to spend a good amount of time today rerunning Dirac and then running REW but as is often the case my computer is not cooperating. When I proceed to the output and levels section I keep getting a "could not open recording device" message. There is nothing else open and I have unplugged the computer a couple of times, tried two different mics, anyone have any ideas on what is going on?

Thanks!
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Originally Posted by gwsat View Post
My FV18s sound so good in my system I have decided against making any further changes based on REW for the time being.
Learning to leave well enough alone means you've earned an REW black belt. I think I'm still in the yellows...
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A boom mic stand is like 20 bucks free shipping from amazon....


I know my cup holder mounted tablet i use to control everything shakes pretty good from my puny cheap subs, I imagine a real sub would do so more.

Link to budget Home Theater build

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...i-version.html
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Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Pretty good right! Except one thing - it sounds like garbage - and I don't mean that in a subjective way. It snaps crackles and pops worse than the rice krispy kids. Here is audio of that sweep.

SO I ask the REW wizards - how can a graph get created from such a horrible sounding sweep? The lower frequencies are seriously awful. Any time I wind up with filters that include a boost in the lower frequencies, this vibrato grinding sound it present.
The "awful" sounds you are hearing are caused by port chuffing and distortion. At the lowest frequencies of the sweep you are close to ten percent distortion. The driver is close to or exceeding its X-max.

Chuffing occurs when the velocity of the air moving through the port changes from the laminar flow regime and becomes turbulent. If you want to run that sub that loud and low, you need to have both ports open and adjust the Rumble filter settings on the amp to match.

Additionally, waterfall plots will tell you more about the room's response than that of your speakers.
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Learning to leave well enough alone means you've earned an REW black belt. I think I'm still in the yellows...
I am surprised that this is your position. If you have been following, the OP has installed new subs. There is no indication that he has used measurements to find the best place to put them and, IIUC, he has yet to even run room correction. You have been around a long time-how you could you be OK with this?
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post #22493 of 22496 Old Today, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by sam_adams View Post
The "awful" sounds you are hearing are caused by port chuffing and distortion. At the lowest frequencies of the sweep you are close to ten percent distortion. The driver is close to or exceeding its X-max.

Chuffing occurs when the velocity of the air moving through the port changes from the laminar flow regime and becomes turbulent. If you want to run that sub that loud and low, you need to have both ports open and adjust the Rumble filter settings on the amp to match.

Additionally, waterfall plots will tell you more about the room's response than that of your speakers.


Got it. So maybe I should try 14Hz, high damping with 2 ports open (And rumble filter set to match). Perhaps in that confit I'll be able to get the response I showed above (down to 20hz not 12hz) but maybe just as flat.

My Current "Living Room" Home Theater!
Plasma 50" TV: Samsung PN50C8000 — DLP Projector: Optoma GT1080
Projector Screen: Elite VMAX2 Electric — Receiver:Pioneer Elite VSX-44 — Fronts: B&W 684 S1
Center: B&W CM Center S2 — Surrounds: B&W 685 S1 — Subwoofer: Rythmik FV15HP
Rear Surrounds: Polk Audio T15 — Front Heights: Polk Audio T15
Check out my most recent subwoofer frequency response (1 vs. 2 port) and full system response.
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post #22494 of 22496 Old Today, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_adams View Post
The "awful" sounds you are hearing are caused by port chuffing and distortion. At the lowest frequencies of the sweep you are close to ten percent distortion. The driver is close to or exceeding its X-max.

Chuffing occurs when the velocity of the air moving through the port changes from the laminar flow regime and becomes turbulent. If you want to run that sub that loud and low, you need to have both ports open and adjust the Rumble filter settings on the amp to match.

Additionally, waterfall plots will tell you more about the room's response than that of your speakers.


Got it. So maybe I should try 14Hz, high damping with 2 ports open (And rumble filter set to match). Perhaps in that confit I'll be able to get the response I showed above (down to 20hz not 12hz) but maybe just as flat.
I'd just set boost filters limits to zero, nothing else changed. 2 port mode should not be necessary to avoid bad noises and high distortion, but YMMV.
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post #22495 of 22496 Old Today, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by artur9 View Post
Learning to leave well enough alone means you've earned an REW black belt. I think I'm still in the yellows...
I am surprised that this is your position. If you have been following, the OP has installed new subs. There is no indication that he has used measurements to find the best place to put them and, IIUC, he has yet to even run room correction. You have been around a long time-how you could you be OK with this?
He did run YPAO but hasn't used REW yet. So, sub placement is not necessarily ideal plus he can improve front speaker placement/angles.
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post #22496 of 22496 Old Today, 04:30 PM
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I doubt the subs will be moved as he already said he is happy. I would like to see the subs on their sides horizontal in his space tho...along with measurements ofc

Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300
Speakers: Focal aria 948, Focal cc900, Klipsch synergy KSF 10.5 Subs: Velodyne HGS 12, VA 1512, Rythmik FV15HP
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