Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs - Page 774 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #23191 of 23214 Old 06-16-2017, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Brian Ding of Rythmik Audio (creator of their subs) mentioned that having subs with deeper extension can make the sound stage larger in all 3 dimensions if the music recording has even a little bit of very low frequencies. That's why most of those subs play down to 12-14Hz before room gain.

Of course, the speakers and their placement is another very important aspect of it and early side wall reflections could subjectively help.
I can attest to the accuracy of what Brian Ding said. As some here may recall, I recently bought two Rythmik FV18 subwoofers. After I got them dialed in, when listening to TrueHD Atmos soundtracks I noticed a dramatic improvement in the spaciousness of what I was hearing. All of a sudden, I felt as if I was in a bigger room. The FV18’s tuning frequency is 12Hz. Needless to say, I have also been well pleased by the LFE I have heard. Haven’t listened to any two channel music yet, so don’t know how much my subs might help it.

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post #23192 of 23214 Old 06-16-2017, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Brian Ding of Rythmik Audio (creator of their subs) mentioned that having subs with deeper extension can make the sound stage larger in all 3 dimensions if the music recording has even a little bit of very low frequencies. That's why most of those subs play down to 12-14Hz before room gain.

Of course, the speakers and their placement is another very important aspect of it and early side wall reflections could subjectively help.
I can attest to the accuracy of what Brian Ding said. As some here may recall, I recently bought two Rythmik FV18 subwoofers. After I got them dialed in, when listening to TrueHD Atmos soundtracks I noticed a dramatic improvement in the spaciousness of what I was hearing. All of a sudden, I felt as if I was in a bigger room. The FV18?s tuning frequency is 12Hz. Needless to say, I have also been well pleased by the LFE I have heard. Haven?t listened to any two channel music yet, so don?t know how much my subs might help it.
Mine is 19Hz tune but in my small nearfield setup with medium to large sized bookshelves I get a huge sound stage for my 1150 cubic foot room. I am literally 2m from the fronts and surrounds.
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post #23193 of 23214 Old 06-16-2017, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
My Rythmik LV12R has a knob labeled phase/delay and the extreme ends are labeled 0 degrees/0ms and 180 degrees/10ms.
That's an all-pass filter.
So is it identical to sw distance in AVR?
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post #23194 of 23214 Old 06-16-2017, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
So is it identical to sw distance in AVR?
No. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-pass_filter

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post #23195 of 23214 Old 06-16-2017, 03:12 PM
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Hey guys I got my Umik-1 in and started playing with REW today. I am waiting on an adapter to use my boom mic stand, so today I just familiarized myself with the software. I read the excellent getting started faq and then worked through taking some measurements and had a few questions if anyone could help.

1. I bought my mic from amazon (unfortunately didnt read about CSL until after my mic shipped) and downloaded the factory 90deg file from minidsp.com. Am I correct in my reading that I don't do anything but use this file, no calibrations necessary? Also when I am taking SPL readings from individual speakers using the pink noise should I also use the 90deg file?

2. This part in the faq I was a little confuse, part a says to use the center channel, part d says to click sub cal, which then used my sub, so which should I use to get my spl reading?

a. Set REW output to output to the center channel (HDMI3).
b. Set up the mic at the MLP at ear level.
c. Open the REW SPL Meter and click the red button to start measuring SPL.
d. Open the REW signal generator, select Pink Noise, Subwoofer Cal, and set the output to
-12dBFS (this is the same level as for the measurement sweeps).

3.Do most people stick with a Length of 256k?

4. Should i use a Timing reference?

5. When running my measurements and spl I did:
a. Audyssey Reference
b. Dynamic Vol Off
c. Dynamic EQ Off
d. Buttkickers Off
Anything else I should turn off or on?

Thanks for the help, hoping to get some proper measurements this weekend.
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post #23196 of 23214 Old 06-16-2017, 03:52 PM
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I posted a vid once, no idea how to search for it, that showed a guy, I think from the rocky mountain audio festival giving a lecture on setting the front sound stage........so it felt like the person was in the room etc etc etc.


Wish I could rember what/where it was.

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post #23197 of 23214 Old 06-16-2017, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Mine is 19Hz tune but in my small nearfield setup with medium to large sized bookshelves I get a huge sound stage for my 1150 cubic foot room. I am literally 2m from the fronts and surrounds.
Yeah,I'm about the same distance, ~7 feet, from my front sound stage and subs too.

HT setup: Sony 75XBR X940D UHD HDR TV; Kaleidescape Strato Movie Server 6 TB; Yamaha RX-A3060 AV receiver; Sonamp 2-1 2channel 100W power amp; Crestron Control System; 2 Rythmik FV18 subwoofers, 6 Hsu HB-1 Bookshelf speakers, 1 Hsu HC-1 Center speaker, 4 Focal ICW8 in-ceiling Atmos speakers; Oppo UDP-203 4K HDR BD player; Mac Mini HTPC. TiVO Bolt 1TB DVR; TiVo Premiere Elite 2 TB DVR; Roku Premiere+
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post #23198 of 23214 Old 06-16-2017, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artur9 View Post
That sounds like you're talking about bass extension (lower frequency) rather than the illusion of instruments behind the plane of the speakers. Or am I misunderstanding what you are suggesting?

In a sense, I hanker for what some reviewers claim to achieve: the wall behind my speakers as I face them listening disappears as if David Copperfield were present. ;-)

I am not certain such a thing ever really happens.

This guy will walk you thru it........

Only had to go about 2000 vids back in my youtube history to find it....



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post #23199 of 23214 Old 06-16-2017, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by unretarded View Post
This guy will walk you thru it........

Only had to go about 2000 vids back in my youtube history to find it....
I don't know but it did remind me to rake my speakers back a bit more. It was a fun/interesting video what with all the guy's anecdotes.
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post #23200 of 23214 Old 06-18-2017, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by unretarded View Post
This guy will walk you thru it........

Only had to go about 2000 vids back in my youtube history to find it....
This guy reminds me of Jim Smith, and is just about as useful as some of Jim Smith's tips, especially how to "voice" speaker setups. I think I'll stick to Toole for my advice for now.
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post #23201 of 23214 Old 06-18-2017, 09:26 AM
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He has a YouTube video, too.
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Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
Downloadable FREE demo discs: Demonstration Blu-Ray Discs (Independently Authored)
Welcome to AVS - Get out while you still can!
Don't guess, measure: Getting Started With REW: A Step-by-Step Guide
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post #23202 of 23214 Old 06-18-2017, 09:45 AM
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He has a YouTube video, too.
Your point?
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post #23203 of 23214 Old 06-18-2017, 11:21 AM
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Just for those who desire input from a (more) reliable source.
And don't have the patience to read the book.
Michael
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Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
Downloadable FREE demo discs: Demonstration Blu-Ray Discs (Independently Authored)
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post #23204 of 23214 Old 06-19-2017, 05:41 AM
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Hey all. I just got my umik-1 from CSL the other day and installed REW and ASIO per the guide. When i am trying to find my noise floor should i be Z weighted? My SPL seems a lot higher than the guide (assuming i'm understanding all this. not the most technical person when it comes to speakers/sound). I was at around 59-63 SPL with my HVAC turned off. The guide mentions the average noise floor is about 50. The other question i have is if it is indeed 60 noise floor do i then need to add at least 40 to that per the guide to get up to 100 SPL on the following step? Should my HVAC be on when i'm trying to fine my noise floor?

All this is daunting to me. So hopefully i can work through it slowly and maybe actually understand what im doing lol
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post #23205 of 23214 Old 06-19-2017, 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by soulcougher73 View Post
Hey all. I just got my umik-1 from CSL the other day and installed REW and ASIO per the guide. When i am trying to find my noise floor should i be Z weighted? My SPL seems a lot higher than the guide (assuming i'm understanding all this. not the most technical person when it comes to speakers/sound). I was at around 59-63 SPL with my HVAC turned off. The guide mentions the average noise floor is about 50. The other question i have is if it is indeed 60 noise floor do i then need to add at least 40 to that per the guide to get up to 100 SPL on the following step? Should my HVAC be on when i'm trying to fine my noise floor?

All this is daunting to me. So hopefully i can work through it slowly and maybe actually understand what im doing lol
I am assuming you are using the proper calibration file, and that the file has the mic's sensitivity parameter. This is covered in the guide.

With the mic plugged in, open the REW RTA window, configure the measurement for 32 averages 10-20KHz, and allow the average response to be generated. The response curve should show which frequencies are contributing to the high noise floor. Low frequencies are a common cause. Post a screenshot here so we can see what you are observing.

You don't absolutely need to measure 40dB higher than the noise floor if you find that too loud. It is just a general guideline.
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post #23206 of 23214 Old 06-20-2017, 04:19 AM
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I thought that, but even adding a delay didn't seem to cure the timing reference being a click, though I'm not sure if REW livens up the output immediately and then delays, or (more likely) just puts it at the start. Are there any other options that might help (I've noticed it on both my Yamaha CXA5000 and Arcam AV860)
I might have missed it but I didn't see any suggestions of how to increase the delay between REW starting a signal on the HDMI output and the timing reference being sent to give an AV receiver more time to 'lock on' to the input signal on the HDMI.

Are there any options which do that? I can't find anything in the menus as setting 'Start Delay' seems to delay the entire process, so just adds a few seconds before REW starts to do anything on the HDMI output.
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post #23207 of 23214 Old 06-20-2017, 05:09 AM
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There isn't any way to do that, but I've added a feature in the next beta that sends a couple of seconds of an effectively silent (-150 dBFS) sine wave before the sweep starts, that will hopefully help.
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post #23208 of 23214 Old 06-20-2017, 07:22 AM
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John,

For the MiniDSP, is there any difference between save filter coefficients to file and export filters as text?
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post #23209 of 23214 Old 06-20-2017, 08:27 AM
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John,

For the MiniDSP, is there any difference between save filter coefficients to file and export filters as text?
From the REW Help file: "The MiniDSP equaliser setting supports the same filter types and resolutions as the Generic setting, but for 6 filters. It is aimed at the MiniDSP plug-in Advanced mode, which allows filters to be specified by their biquad coefficients. The Save Filter Coefficients to File action writes the filter coefficients to a file in a format suitable for use with the MiniDSP software".

If you run the "save filter coefficients to file" and "export filters as text" (as shown below), you would see that the files are very different.
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post #23210 of 23214 Old 06-20-2017, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
John,

For the MiniDSP, is there any difference between save filter coefficients to file and export filters as text?
From the REW Help file: "The MiniDSP equaliser setting supports the same filter types and resolutions as the Generic setting, but for 6 filters. It is aimed at the MiniDSP plug-in Advanced mode, which allows filters to be specified by their biquad coefficients. The Save Filter Coefficients to File action writes the filter coefficients to a file in a format suitable for use with the MiniDSP software".

If you run the "save filter coefficients to file" and "export filters as text" (as shown below), you would see that the files are very different.
Thanks, I usually use the save filter coefficients to file option. So, I guess I'm doing it correctly?

FWIW, in the MiniDSP plug-in the text for each PEQ band under advanced looks like the 2nd image you attached.
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post #23211 of 23214 Old 06-20-2017, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Thanks, I usually use the save filter coefficients to file option. So, I guess I'm doing it correctly?

FWIW, in the MiniDSP plug-in the text for each PEQ band under advanced looks like the 2nd image you attached.
The second image is indeed the save filter coefficients file, so that should not be a surprise.
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post #23212 of 23214 Old 06-20-2017, 10:30 AM
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^I see.
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post #23213 of 23214 Old Today, 01:14 AM
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There isn't any way to do that, but I've added a feature in the next beta that sends a couple of seconds of an effectively silent (-150 dBFS) sine wave before the sweep starts, that will hopefully help.
Should work! Can also use dither noise.

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post #23214 of 23214 Old Today, 05:00 AM
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That's what gets produced in practice since the sine wave generator is dithered by default.
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