Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs - Page 88 - AVS Forum
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post #2611 of 10741 Old 04-18-2013, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

A broadband absorber is a wall treatment that acts like an absorber across a wide range of frequencies, rather than focusing on a specific frequency range, e.g. A bass trap. If you are looking for a manufactured product, broadband wall treatments are available from a number of different companies, like GIK Acoustics, ATS Acoustics, and RealTraps. Panels are usually 4'x2', and you should choose one that has at least 4" of absorption material.

Thanks I will look into that! smile.gif
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post #2612 of 10741 Old 04-18-2013, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Dwightlf View Post

OK all this is my first REW run. I am using the USB microphone that was with my OmniMic V2, used the calibration curve for it. Used my analog audio out from my laptop with a RealTec soundcard.

I cannot find any bass management or eq settings that would roll off the low end. I added an OmniMic run for comparison and it matches what an SPL meter reads and by ear. I did not do the loop back for eqing the sound card though. Would that help or is there something else going on. This is a 30+db offset at 20Hz.

Unsmoothed from REW


1/6 smoothed from OmniMicV2

I ran REW today on a different laptop. I set it up as before but this time it did not see the Calibration file or something as it asked me to run the sensitivity test. On the other laptop, both Toshibas though, it will not let me run calibration as is sees the calibration file or something. I entered the cal file on both. I ran calibration and got the reading below. Now the high end is rolled off! I check for any settings that would affect eq and made sure everything I could find is turned off. The low to 3000 Hz range looks OK and is similar to the OmniMic run. The other laptop is OK from 40Hz up to 20000Hz and looks ok. Ideas anyone?

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post #2613 of 10741 Old 04-18-2013, 04:00 PM
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I don't see anything wrong with the graph.  A high-frequency roll-off is typical for most systems, and is usually deemed desirable.  I don't recall if you are using Audyssey RC, but Audyssey's target curve has this roll-off built in.  Here is my curve, which has a similar roll-off:

 

 

BTW, no need to start the sweep at 0Hz (unless your sub goes that low wink.gif).  20-20,000 is what we usually measure, except for Keith, of course...

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post #2614 of 10741 Old 04-18-2013, 07:10 PM
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AMAZING FREE SOFTWARE!

Equalizer APO

 

If you have an HTPC and have at least been able to get measurements with REW, then you MUST get this program:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/equalizerapo/

It is a software parametric equalizer (think Audyssey, MCACC, etc.)!

Documentation here: http://sourceforge.net/p/equalizerapo/wiki/Documentation/

 

 

Michael

Downloadable FREE demo discs:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1475769/de...ently-authored 

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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post #2615 of 10741 Old 04-19-2013, 02:27 PM
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Jerry,

For full spectrum graph, do I measure left and right channels individually and average, or measure all channels?

Ran into a bit of trouble with the zone setting and no sound, but everything looks fine now. This weekend I will level-match my subs and make a few measurements.



Sound is a bit strained with 4 ohm speakers, so hooking up the 5.1 preouts

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post #2616 of 10741 Old 04-19-2013, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post

Jerry,

For full spectrum graph, do I measure left and right channels individually and average, or measure all channels?

I make four measurements:

- left front + subs
- right front + subs
- left + right fronts + subs
- center + subs

There is no real advantage to averaging the measurements. With these four measurements, you can get a pretty good picture of what is happening in your room.

Is that a picture of your new AVR?
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post #2617 of 10741 Old 04-19-2013, 07:10 PM
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Thanks Jerry. I did the Audyssey quick-setup for now. The measurements below are for the left speaker, with Anti-Mode on.


Red = FR without Audyssey
Green = FR with Audyssey




Anti-Mode + Audyssey is causing a large peak. I'll test again tomorrow with Anti-Mode off, and once I have the subs level matched.

The Audyssey roll off at 4k makes a difference in my room. I like it. Highs are much better, less strident, especially at high volume. Feels like I added a whole bunch of absorbers up front.

Yep, that's a pic of my 818. I picked up the AudioQuest cables years ago and they still look great. Neat, right smile.gif
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post #2618 of 10741 Old 04-21-2013, 10:43 PM
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Room EQ Wizard Version 5.01 Beta 14 Released

Beta 14 changes (21st April 2013):
  • Added a control on the Measure dialog for a delay (up to 60 s) before the sweep starts
  • Added target settings to specify a rise at low frequencies (a house curve) and a fall at high frequencies
  • Added ctrl+shift+7/8/9 shortcuts for smoothing to 1/12, 1/24 or 1/48 octave
  • Corrected UMIK SPL calculation to match latest sensitivity data
  • Manual SPL Meter calibration is enabled with USB mics if no mic cal file loaded or cal file did not have sensitivity data
  • If a USB mic is selected as input but no cal file is selected clear any existing mic/meter cal file
  • UMIK-1 auto-detected on OS X even when sample rate is not set to 48k
  • Show a warning if a sample rate other than 44.1 kHz is selected on OS X
  • Added partial support for UMM-6, but volume mapping and sensitivity not verified so SPL readings may be incorrect
  • Added Xilica XP2040 equaliser setting (peaking filters only)
  • Added a check for a valid soundcard calibration measurement when saving a measurement as a cal file
  • Generated custom crosshair cursor for graphs to replace default Win 8 double thickness crosshair
  • Updated help text for setting input levels when using a USB microphone
  • Added channel labels to the filter impulse response export settings dialog when Stereo selected
  • Drivers selection in Soundcard Preferences only shown on Windows
  • Bug fix: ASIO interface handled 24-bit integer data incorrectly, causing invalid clipped input data from some soundcards
  • Bug fix: Corrected a 4dB discrepancy between UMIK SPL readings in Win XP and Win 8
  • Bug fix: Exporting RT60 data as text did not use the selected text delimiter
  • Bug fix: Add Offset to Data did not add the offset to the distortion data
  • Bug fix: Soundcard cal measurement notes did not show input and output selection properly when using ASIO
  • Bug fix: Waterfall image captures included the cursor trace on side and back walls even if Include Cursor was not selected
  • Bug fix: Waterfall overlay should not be plotted if it was generated with different settings to the current measurement

Download here

Sanjay
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post #2619 of 10741 Old 04-22-2013, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Room EQ Wizard Version 5.01 Beta 14 Released

Beta 14 changes (21st April 2013):
  • Added a control on the Measure dialog for a delay (up to 60 s) before the sweep starts
  • Added target settings to specify a rise at low frequencies (a house curve) and a fall at high frequencies
  • Added ctrl+shift+7/8/9 shortcuts for smoothing to 1/12, 1/24 or 1/48 octave
  • Corrected UMIK SPL calculation to match latest sensitivity data
  • Manual SPL Meter calibration is enabled with USB mics if no mic cal file loaded or cal file did not have sensitivity data
  • If a USB mic is selected as input but no cal file is selected clear any existing mic/meter cal file
  • UMIK-1 auto-detected on OS X even when sample rate is not set to 48k
  • Show a warning if a sample rate other than 44.1 kHz is selected on OS X
  • Added partial support for UMM-6, but volume mapping and sensitivity not verified so SPL readings may be incorrect
  • Added Xilica XP2040 equaliser setting (peaking filters only)
  • Added a check for a valid soundcard calibration measurement when saving a measurement as a cal file
  • Generated custom crosshair cursor for graphs to replace default Win 8 double thickness crosshair
  • Updated help text for setting input levels when using a USB microphone
  • Added channel labels to the filter impulse response export settings dialog when Stereo selected
  • Drivers selection in Soundcard Preferences only shown on Windows
  • Bug fix: ASIO interface handled 24-bit integer data incorrectly, causing invalid clipped input data from some soundcards
  • Bug fix: Corrected a 4dB discrepancy between UMIK SPL readings in Win XP and Win 8
  • Bug fix: Exporting RT60 data as text did not use the selected text delimiter
  • Bug fix: Add Offset to Data did not add the offset to the distortion data
  • Bug fix: Soundcard cal measurement notes did not show input and output selection properly when using ASIO
  • Bug fix: Waterfall image captures included the cursor trace on side and back walls even if Include Cursor was not selected
  • Bug fix: Waterfall overlay should not be plotted if it was generated with different settings to the current measurement

Download here

Thanks for posting! (My highlights in red). Good to see updates and progress being made.

Do you know if this means you no longer need to do the UMM-6 mic calibration with the Radio Shack SPL meter? Not that it was a big deal. But it would be one less step.
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post #2620 of 10741 Old 04-22-2013, 08:14 AM
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Based on the description, I would say that you should continue to manually calibrate the UMM-6.  Remember, once you know what master volume setting on the AVR yields the desired level at the MLP, e.g. 80dB, you don't need to calibrate using the SPL again.  Just set the MV.  Of course, if you have made significant changes, like adding treatments, you should calibrate using the SPL again.

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post #2621 of 10741 Old 04-22-2013, 09:52 AM
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Jerry, the 40 Hz peak is proving to be harder to smooth out with Audyssey. The Anti-Mode handles it better. I don't know why. I will continue to experiment with sub placement.
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post #2622 of 10741 Old 04-22-2013, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post

Jerry, the 40 Hz peak is proving to be harder to smooth out with Audyssey. The Anti-Mode handles it better. I don't know why. I will continue to experiment with sub placement.

 

Nothing wrong with using the Anti-Mode and Audyssey together.  I would try the Anti-Mode first, and then run Audyssey, to see what the combined response looks like.

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post #2623 of 10741 Old 04-22-2013, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Room EQ Wizard Version 5.01 Beta 14 Released

Beta 14 changes (21st April 2013):
  • Added a control on the Measure dialog for a delay (up to 60 s) before the sweep starts
  • Added target settings to specify a rise at low frequencies (a house curve) and a fall at high frequencies
  • Added ctrl+shift+7/8/9 shortcuts for smoothing to 1/12, 1/24 or 1/48 octave
  • Corrected UMIK SPL calculation to match latest sensitivity data
  • Manual SPL Meter calibration is enabled with USB mics if no mic cal file loaded or cal file did not have sensitivity data
  • If a USB mic is selected as input but no cal file is selected clear any existing mic/meter cal file
  • UMIK-1 auto-detected on OS X even when sample rate is not set to 48k
  • Show a warning if a sample rate other than 44.1 kHz is selected on OS X
  • Added partial support for UMM-6, but volume mapping and sensitivity not verified so SPL readings may be incorrect
  • Added Xilica XP2040 equaliser setting (peaking filters only)
  • Added a check for a valid soundcard calibration measurement when saving a measurement as a cal file
  • Generated custom crosshair cursor for graphs to replace default Win 8 double thickness crosshair
  • Updated help text for setting input levels when using a USB microphone
  • Added channel labels to the filter impulse response export settings dialog when Stereo selected
  • Drivers selection in Soundcard Preferences only shown on Windows
  • Bug fix: ASIO interface handled 24-bit integer data incorrectly, causing invalid clipped input data from some soundcards
  • Bug fix: Corrected a 4dB discrepancy between UMIK SPL readings in Win XP and Win 8
  • Bug fix: Exporting RT60 data as text did not use the selected text delimiter
  • Bug fix: Add Offset to Data did not add the offset to the distortion data
  • Bug fix: Soundcard cal measurement notes did not show input and output selection properly when using ASIO
  • Bug fix: Waterfall image captures included the cursor trace on side and back walls even if Include Cursor was not selected
  • Bug fix: Waterfall overlay should not be plotted if it was generated with different settings to the current measurement

Download here

 

Thanks for the link Sanjay.

 

Anyone else having trouble downloading it?  It grabs the first several megs of the file and then stops...

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post #2624 of 10741 Old 04-22-2013, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post

Do you know if this means you no longer need to do the UMM-6 mic calibration with the Radio Shack SPL meter?
It doesn't, since REW doesn't know the sensitivity of the mic, you still need to calibrate initial level.

Sanjay
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post #2625 of 10741 Old 04-22-2013, 10:32 AM
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I have workmen in my home today, so I'm looking for things to occupy my time.  I found this interesting read on the HiFiZine site that I thought would be useful to share, authored by Nyal Mellor:  http://www.hifizine.com/2010/09/the-three-acoustical-issues-a-room-correction-product-can%e2%80%99t-actually-correct/.  My thanks to Nyal!

 

The SBIR has been discussed earlier in this thread by Sanjay. 

 

In the Early Reflections section, Nyal suggests that all reflections be -10dB relative to the direct sound.  Given this objective, I re-visited my ETC graphs and noted that all my measurements meet this criteria.  No more string technique for Jerry!

 

And finally, Nyal suggests that with respect to long decay times, a good two-channel listening environment should have a reverberation time of approximately 0.4s.  Mine measures 0.47, slightly higher than optimal.

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post #2626 of 10741 Old 04-22-2013, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Nothing wrong with using the Anti-Mode and Audyssey together.  I would try the Anti-Mode first, and then run Audyssey, to see what the combined response looks like.

I ran Audyssey and Antimode together over and over again and the response is not good. Antimode works better alone. Audyssey works better on midrange and high frequencies. Antimode+Audyssey cancels out benefit of Antimode.

Here's the sub response with the left speaker off.

Red = FR with Anti-Mode on and Audyssey off
Green = FR with Anti-Mode and Audyssey together





Here's the full range measurement which shows a better example.

Green = FR w Audyssey off and Anti-Mode in bypass mode (no room correction)
Red = FR w Audyssey and Anti-Mode running together
Blue = FR w Audyssey off and Anti-Mode on




I've tried the manual EQ in the 818 tool box to lower the peak at 40 - 60 Hz, put that has no affect.
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post #2627 of 10741 Old 04-22-2013, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Thanks for the link Sanjay.

Anyone else having trouble downloading it?  It grabs the first several megs of the file and then stops...

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

It doesn't, since REW doesn't know the sensitivity of the mic, you still need to calibrate initial level.

Thanks.

I downloaded without any problems, but now when I open REW, I get an occasional message telling me I must do the initial mic calibration. I guess REW is not saving the information when I log out.
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post #2628 of 10741 Old 04-22-2013, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post



Thanks.

I downloaded without any problems, but now when I open REW, I get an occasional message telling me I must do the initial mic calibration. I guess REW is not saving the information when I log out.

 

REW does not save microphone calibration data, so nothing has changed.

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post #2629 of 10741 Old 04-22-2013, 05:30 PM
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here is todays measurement...think im going to need a mini dsp to tame the 30hz peak, but it does not bother me really. i kind of like the extra kick when a explosion hits during a movie. smile.gif





dont worry about the 20db drop...i had my subs set hot when i tested for max spl on my radio shack meter. i didnt want to tax my other speakers. i normally run the subs +5db hot.
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post #2630 of 10741 Old 04-22-2013, 08:03 PM
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Forgetting the peak for a moment, it seems like your subs are running on average 10dB higher than your main speakers. Is that correct? If yes, is this your preference?
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post #2631 of 10741 Old 04-22-2013, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post

I ran Audyssey and Antimode together over and over again and the response is not good. Antimode works better alone. Audyssey works better on midrange and high frequencies. Antimode+Audyssey cancels out benefit of Antimode.

Here's the sub response with the left speaker off.

Red = FR with Anti-Mode on and Audyssey off
Green = FR with Anti-Mode and Audyssey together





Here's the full range measurement which shows a better example.

Green = FR w Audyssey off and Anti-Mode in bypass mode (no room correction)
Red = FR w Audyssey and Anti-Mode running together
Blue = FR w Audyssey off and Anti-Mode on




I've tried the manual EQ in the 818 tool box to lower the peak at 40 - 60 Hz, put that has no affect.

Testing for understanding--when you say Audyssey and Antimode running together, do you mean setting Antimode for best response, leaving it engaged, and then running the Audyssey calibration? If yes, then something isn't right.
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post #2632 of 10741 Old 04-22-2013, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

REW does not save microphone calibration data, so nothing has changed.

The initial SPL caibration is not saved?
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post #2633 of 10741 Old 04-22-2013, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Forgetting the peak for a moment, it seems like your subs are running on average 10dB higher than your main speakers. Is that correct? If yes, is this your preference?

i normally run them around 5db hot, i turned them up during testing because i did a max spl test on the subs and did not want to tax my other speakers. my subs hit 122db(no correction factored in) on the radio shack meter at my listening posistion.
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post #2634 of 10741 Old 04-22-2013, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Testing for understanding--when you say Audyssey and Antimode running together, do you mean setting Antimode for best response, leaving it engaged, and then running the Audyssey calibration? If yes, then something isn't right.


I ran Anti-mode for MLP only, followed by Audyssey Full Calibration. I may have to do the wider area correction for Anti-mode. I hate running the Anti-mode calibration, it's long and frightening.

Edit: Oh, man. That's funny!tongue.gif
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post #2635 of 10741 Old 04-23-2013, 06:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post




The initial SPL caibration is not saved?

 

Nope.

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post #2636 of 10741 Old 04-23-2013, 06:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post


I ran Anti-mode for MLP only, followed by Audyssey Full Calibration. I may have to do the wider area correction for Anti-mode. I hate running the Anti-mode calibration, it's long and frightening.

Edit: Oh, man. That's funny!tongue.gif

 

I have no idea why the two technologies don't play well together.

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post #2637 of 10741 Old 04-23-2013, 09:52 AM
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Thanks, Jerry. I'll ask in the Anti-Mode thread and other sites to see the best way to use both together.
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post #2638 of 10741 Old 04-23-2013, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post

Thanks, Jerry. I'll ask in the Anti-Mode thread and other sites to see the best way to use both together.

 

I'm hoping you get good advice, and are able to flatten the response curve!

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post #2639 of 10741 Old 04-23-2013, 11:44 AM
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Looking at the response with no room correction, that's a pretty big spike in the low range. I guess I should address that, again, with sub placement. It's a shame, because the sub is in the only location that provides good room boundary for 20 - 30 Hz waves. When I place the sub elsewhere in the room, I lose those frequencies.
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post #2640 of 10741 Old 04-23-2013, 01:57 PM
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any other thoughts jerry?
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