2 channel placement - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 12 Old 01-07-2013, 09:55 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Hifisound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 104
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I recently found a new 2 channel placement by which I feel the the speakers disappear more and a beter stereo image is created.

Here is the diagram :



Earlier I used to sit at point A and the speakers were firing straight

While experimenting a bit I toed in the speakers to point at A and moved myself to B.
This was quite good listening experience and felt the stereo image was much better than A

Is this is classic nearfield placement ? Or a similar experience can be achieved in another placement as well.
I tried this with my dynaudio contours 1.8 mkii and even my smaller Audioengines A2s (although the distances were proportionally smaller) and got similar results.

Any similar experiences from other ? any thoughts ?
Or is it theoretically a wrong placement ?

Thanks,
Hifisound

Hifisound is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 12 Old 01-08-2013, 10:43 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Hifisound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 104
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11

Any thoughts ?

Hifisound is offline  
post #3 of 12 Old 01-08-2013, 11:06 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Ethan Winer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: New Milford, CT, USA
Posts: 5,747
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hifisound View Post

moved myself to B ... and felt the stereo image was much better than A

Yes, this makes sense because you get more of the direct sound from the speakers, and less of the reflected sound from the room. For even better stereo imaging and overall clarity, you should consider at least a little acoustic treatment. This will get you started:

Acoustic Basics

--Ethan

RealTraps - The acoustic treatment experts
Ethan's Audio Expert book

Ethan Winer is offline  
post #4 of 12 Old 01-08-2013, 11:15 AM
Senior Member
 
BarracudaDelGato's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 222
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hifisound View Post

Any thoughts ?

When I started getting into hi-fi (early eighties), rolleyes.gif the recommended LP was at the vertex of an equilateral triangle - all 60° angles. Moving further away from the line connecting the speakers was considered OK, but getting closer to it was frowned upon.

I still follow that old bit of advice, but TBH I am not sure if it's still the consensus. smile.gif At your "B" LP, the angle to the speakers is 90° (quite a bit wider than 60°).
A minor point, but I think that the speaker vertices should be measured from the middle of the front panel, not from inside the cabinets.
BarracudaDelGato is offline  
post #5 of 12 Old 01-08-2013, 11:35 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Hifisound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 104
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan Winer View Post

Yes, this makes sense because you get more of the direct sound from the speakers, and less of the reflected sound from the room. For even better stereo imaging and overall clarity, you should consider at least a little acoustic treatment.

So for listening from position B, what will be bare minimum treatment required ? I guess side wall (and ceiling) absorbing panels for early reflection will not be required ?

Hifisound is offline  
post #6 of 12 Old 01-08-2013, 11:40 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Hifisound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 104
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by BarracudaDelGato View Post

When I started getting into hi-fi (early eighties), rolleyes.gif the recommended LP was at the vertex of an equilateral triangle - all 60° angles. Moving further away from the line connecting the speakers was considered OK, but getting closer to it was frowned upon.
I still follow that old bit of advice, but TBH I am not sure if it's still the consensus. smile.gif At your "B" LP, the angle to the speakers is 90° (quite a bit wider than 60°).
A minor point, but I think that the speaker vertices should be measured from the middle of the front panel, not from inside the cabinets.

What would be reason for not suggesting to move closer ?

Hifisound is offline  
post #7 of 12 Old 01-08-2013, 11:43 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Ethan Winer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: New Milford, CT, USA
Posts: 5,747
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hifisound View Post

So for listening from position B, what will be bare minimum treatment required ? I guess side wall (and ceiling) absorbing panels for early reflection will not be required ?

It all helps. Reflection points are important, as are bass traps. A little helps a little, a lot helps a lot. Though you don't need to cover everything!

--Ethan

RealTraps - The acoustic treatment experts
Ethan's Audio Expert book

Ethan Winer is offline  
post #8 of 12 Old 01-08-2013, 03:19 PM
AVS Special Member
 
commsysman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 5,189
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 76 Post(s)
Liked: 242
If you learn what the exact dispersion pattern of your tweeters is, you can set things up with a lot more knowledge and that will help.

Some tweeters have a very narrow dispersion pattern in the vertical plane, which makes the height of your ears relative to the tweeter very critical (correction can be made by tilting the front of the speaker upward in some cases).

Some have a limited horizontal dispersion pattern, which makes the "toe-in' of the speakers critical.

Any discussion about this subject is not going to be productive until you have more detailed information about each tweeter, and apply it properly.
commsysman is offline  
post #9 of 12 Old 01-08-2013, 09:12 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Hifisound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 104
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

If you learn what the exact dispersion pattern of your tweeters is, you can set things up with a lot more knowledge and that will help.
Some tweeters have a very narrow dispersion pattern in the vertical plane, which makes the height of your ears relative to the tweeter very critical (correction can be made by tilting the front of the speaker upward in some cases).
Some have a limited horizontal dispersion pattern, which makes the "toe-in' of the speakers critical.
Any discussion about this subject is not going to be productive until you have more detailed information about each tweeter, and apply it properly.

Let me check where I can find that data for my Dynaudio Contours 1.8mkii and Audioengine A2 tweeters (Dynaudio has not responded to one such similar earlier request)

Hifisound is offline  
post #10 of 12 Old 01-08-2013, 09:27 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Hifisound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 104
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan Winer View Post

It all helps. Reflection points are important, as are bass traps. A little helps a little, a lot helps a lot. Though you don't need to cover everything!
--Ethan

But in such a nearfield position (where direct sound is much more than reflection) what should be the priority for ? Side+ceiling or behind speaker wall ?

Hifisound is offline  
post #11 of 12 Old 01-08-2013, 09:45 PM
Senior Member
 
BarracudaDelGato's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 222
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hifisound View Post

What would be reason for not suggesting to move closer ?

My memory is not what it used to be... If I am not mistaken, the reason given was that the image would suffer. This is ironic, as you find image improves by getting closer. Ethan's explanation makes sense though.
Another factor could be that a 60° (or narrower) angle allows to sit a little further away from the speakers. In your B example you are sitting less than 6ft from the speakers. In a smaller space this could be more of a problem.
BarracudaDelGato is offline  
post #12 of 12 Old 01-09-2013, 10:40 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Ethan Winer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: New Milford, CT, USA
Posts: 5,747
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hifisound View Post

But in such a nearfield position (where direct sound is much more than reflection) what should be the priority for ? Side+ceiling or behind speaker wall ?

The only way to know is to measure your room:

Room Measuring Primer

Then you'll know exactly how damaging the reflections are. But no matter how close you are to your speakers, you still have many peaks and deep nulls at bass frequencies.

Also, the front wall behind your speakers is mostly irrelevant if you have normal box-type speakers that send sound forward only. More on that here:

Front Wall Absorption

--Ethan

RealTraps - The acoustic treatment experts
Ethan's Audio Expert book

Ethan Winer is offline  
Reply Audio theory, Setup and Chat

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off