Dolby Pro Logic IIx vs. DTS Neo:6 - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: 2.0 upgraded to 5.1 or greater whats your poison
Dolby Pro Logic IIx 24 61.54%
DTS Neo:6 12 30.77%
Your Receivers Proprietary Software 3 7.69%
Voters: 39. You may not vote on this poll

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post #1 of 44 Old 01-18-2013, 12:42 PM - Thread Starter
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When you are faced with a 2.0 track and you would like to kick that up a notch what do you use? Do you select the originator Dolby Pro Logic or do you go with the new guy DTS Neo:6 or do you pick the wild card and use your receivers proprietary software? No need to argue why you format of choice is better, just plain fun here.

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post #2 of 44 Old 01-18-2013, 12:51 PM
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Subtle ambiance recreation at the sides (Lexicon CP3).

I never listen to stereo sources without it.

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post #3 of 44 Old 01-18-2013, 01:01 PM
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Between PLIIx and Neo:X, I prefer PLIIx because: more flexibility to adjust the surround processing to my tastes and varying recordings; more stable processing with less artifacts; surrounds are more directional rather than mono-ish (Neo:6).

Having said that, for 2-channel music I use the proprietary ambience extraction built into my processor (Lexicon MC-12).

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post #4 of 44 Old 01-18-2013, 04:39 PM
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Definitely PL2x or better.


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post #5 of 44 Old 01-18-2013, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Between PLIIx and Neo:X, I prefer PLIIx because: more flexibility to adjust the surround processing to my tastes and varying recordings; more stable processing with less artifacts; surrounds are more directional rather than mono-ish (Neo:6)....

Ditto. I find with music I can only use PLII about 25% of the time preferring the original 2 channel (song by song bases). Also can usually enjoy *5-channel stereo mode more than PLII (still song by song bases).

*while it may be technically proprietary almost ever manufacture has it and works (basically) the same.
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post #6 of 44 Old 05-01-2013, 05:07 PM
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It depends. switching from NEO:6 to stereo sounds more natural. Switching from stereo to DPLIIx sounds more WOW! What is better? I think DTS NEO:6 sounds better for most of the music smile.gif

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post #7 of 44 Old 05-01-2013, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlayNice View Post

When you are faced with a 2.0 track and you would like to kick that up a notch what do you use?....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynx_TWO View Post

It depends. switching from NEO:6 to stereo sounds more natural. Switching from stereo to DPLIIx sounds more WOW!...

However, playing with the 'settings' is basically why we are all here. So since proprietary software is there to use, why not experiment and see what sounds best.
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post #8 of 44 Old 05-02-2013, 05:52 AM
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For TV and movies I use PLIIx Movie coupled with THX Cinema.

For Music I use PLIIx Music or 2 Ch Stereo (unless a bunch of ppl are over then I use ALL CH Stereo for background music).

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post #9 of 44 Old 06-21-2013, 01:08 AM
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I've read a post from Audioreview. A person posted:
Quote:
I first wanted to make sure that switching between DPL IIx and Dts Neo:6(version 2.2) their newest algorythm. All of my previous impressions of Neo have been based on their first implementation, but with several updates to my switcher/processor I found that I had their latest version. The difference between the two of them is quite striking.

Dts Neo:6 - Had a cleaner more robust and powerful presentation between the two. The fine details of the mix, foley, and panning of effects was more precise with Neo. Neo kept the entire production locked solidly up front, and any panning to the sides was very clearly delineated. The film score was presented with a more palpable sense of instrument position within the soundfield than DPL IIx.

DPL IIx - Had a huge immersive soundfield 360 degrees around the listening position. However fine details got lost in that soundfield, and were not quite as pronounced as with Neo. DPL IIx seemed mushy and clouded, and it sounded like the dynamics were quite a bit restrained in comparison to Neo. The best way I could describe DPL IIx experience was much like having a huge immersive cloud around you, with details stuck in the cloud. It is quite a different presentation from Neo.

After this listening session(I have never heard these side by side before), I am leaning far towards using Dts:Neo 6 for all of my two channel movies.
I'm not sure if he's testing it on stereo movies or 5.1 movies. He also mentioned about the newer version of Neo6. Wonder how's the upmix from 5.1 movies rolleyes.gif

To those who are watching 5.1 encoded movies on their 7.1 speaker setup, do you prefer DTS Neo6 or Dolby Prologic IIx?
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post #10 of 44 Old 06-21-2013, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post

I've read a post from Audioreview. A person posted:
I'm not sure if he's testing it on stereo movies or 5.1 movies. He also mentioned about the newer version of Neo6. Wonder how's the upmix from 5.1 movies rolleyes.gif

Well, also, there's the fact that fiddling with the default DPLIIx setting could probably get him to something sounding very much like DTS Neo.
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post #11 of 44 Old 06-21-2013, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post

To those who are watching 5.1 encoded movies on their 7.1 speaker setup, do you prefer DTS Neo6 or Dolby Prologic IIx?
Prefer PLIIx Movie mode for its stereo surround-back channels and clearer directionality. Neo:6, as the name implies, is a 6 channel matrix that extracts a mono surround-back channel (whether processing a 2-channel source or 5.1 source).

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post #12 of 44 Old 06-23-2013, 06:55 AM
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I personally don't use either for music, I'd much rather listen to it in its original form. Same for any old 2.0 video games, unless some of them are encoded in Dolby Pro Logic to which then I would set my AVR to that.


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post #13 of 44 Old 02-26-2014, 11:18 AM
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On my Sony STR-DH740 AVR w/ Bose Acoustimass 10 Series IV Home Entertainment Speaker System IMO DTS's rendition (Neo:6 - what does "neo" stand for btw?) sounds more full, more spacial, less center channel oriented when it comes to movies. Personally I don't really listen to music on either of them so I have no opinion on that side.

Silly question: I know both are designed to process a 2 channel signal into a 5.1 and they both do a pretty decent job. (I would always use Dolby Digital 5.1, or DTS 5.1 over them hands down as its real SS) If the signal coming into your AVR is already a 5.1 DD or DTS signal and you chose one of these how does the sound matrix process these? Is it down converted to 2.0 then up converted and reprocessed to 5.1 via DD PL II or Neo:6 making it not true HD 5.1?

 


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post #14 of 44 Old 02-26-2014, 12:29 PM
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[quote name="JefferyMichael" url="/t/1452760/dolby-pro-logic-iix-vs-dts-neo-6#post_24412311"
Silly question: I know both are designed to process a 2 channel signal into a 5.1 and they both do a pretty decent job. (I would always use Dolby Digital 5.1, or DTS 5.1 over them hands down as its real SS) If the signal coming into your AVR is already a 5.1 DD or DTS signal and you chose one of these how does the sound matrix process these? Is it down converted to 2.0 then up converted and reprocessed to 5.1 via DD PL II or Neo:6 making it not true HD 5.1?
[/quote]

They operate differently depending on what kind of input they receive.

With a 2.0 input:
PLII: 5.1
PLIIx: 5.1, 6.1, or 7.1
Neo:6: 5.1 or 6.1

With a 5.1 input:
PLIIx: 6.1, 7.1
Neo:6: 6.1
Dolby Digital EX: 6.1
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post #15 of 44 Old 02-26-2014, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjblakey314 View Post

[quote name="JefferyMichael" url="/t/1452760/dolby-pro-logic-iix-vs-dts-neo-6#post_24412311"
Silly question: I know both are designed to process a 2 channel signal into a 5.1 and they both do a pretty decent job. (I would always use Dolby Digital 5.1, or DTS 5.1 over them hands down as its real SS) If the signal coming into your AVR is already a 5.1 DD or DTS signal and you chose one of these how does the sound matrix process these? Is it down converted to 2.0 then up converted and reprocessed to 5.1 via DD PL II or Neo:6 making it not true HD 5.1?
[/quote]

They operate differently depending on what kind of input they receive.

With a 2.0 input:
PLII: 5.1
PLIIx: 5.1, 6.1, or 7.1
Neo:6: 5.1 or 6.1

With a 5.1 input:
PLIIx: 6.1, 7.1
Neo:6: 6.1
Dolby Digital EX: 6.1
 



But is it maintaining the true native HD 5.1 to each sourced speaker like DD 5.1 or DTS 5.1 or reprocessing it in its own version of 5.1?


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post #16 of 44 Old 02-26-2014, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JefferyMichael View Post
 



But is it maintaining the true native HD 5.1 to each sourced speaker like DD 5.1 or DTS 5.1 or reprocessing it in its own version of 5.1?

I think that it may not keep the proper channels... I tested it with the IMAX "THINK BIG" DD5.1 intro... On DD5.1 the sound is proper. For example the end part of that intro the sound moves behind you as the image does accordingly. Running this on PLII does not. All of the speakers are on but its not native.


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post #17 of 44 Old 02-26-2014, 02:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JefferyMichael View Post

I think that it may not keep the proper channels... I tested it with the IMAX "THINK BIG" DD5.1 intro... On DD5.1 the sound is proper. For example the end part of that intro the sound moves behind you as the image does accordingly. Running this on PLII does not. All of the speakers are on but its not native.

I have inquired about this which led to an email to Dolby. They replied saying Pro Logic IIx/z does not downmix the native source only adds additional channels.

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post #18 of 44 Old 02-26-2014, 02:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JefferyMichael View Post

I think that it may not keep the proper channels... I tested it with the IMAX "THINK BIG" DD5.1 intro... On DD5.1 the sound is proper. For example the end part of that intro the sound moves behind you as the image does accordingly. Running this on PLII does not. All of the speakers are on but its not native.

What disk are you using for your text I would like to try it as well.

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post #19 of 44 Old 02-26-2014, 02:26 PM
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I don't use any processing at all. It really unsettles me. It sounds unnatural to me. The natural reverb of my listening room provides all the "ambience" I need. That may result from 60 years of listening to music without any DSP, though.
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post #20 of 44 Old 02-26-2014, 02:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW View Post

I don't use any processing at all. It really unsettles me. It sounds unnatural to me. The natural reverb of my listening room provides all the "ambience" I need. That may result from 60 years of listening to music without any DSP, though.

For music I wouldn't use processing but movie sound is encoded differently and works well with Pro Logic IIx/z and Neo:6/X.

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post #21 of 44 Old 02-26-2014, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JefferyMichael View Post

I know both are designed to process a 2 channel signal into a 5.1 and they both do a pretty decent job. (I would always use Dolby Digital 5.1, or DTS 5.1 over them hands down as its real SS)
That doesn't really make sense, since the reason to use surround processing on a 2-channel source is because you don't have a discrete multi-channel source. If you have a 5.1 soundtrack, why would you be upmixing the 2-channel track?

It's like saying video scalers does a pretty decent job scaling standard def DVDs to your high def display, but you would always use a Blu-ray over them hands down as it is real high def. This misses the reason to use video scalers: for situations when you don't have a high def version of a movie. If you do have a movie on Blu-ray, why would you be upscaling a DVD?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JefferyMichael View Post

If the signal coming into your AVR is already a 5.1 DD or DTS signal and you chose one of these how does the sound matrix process these? Is it down converted to 2.0 then up converted and reprocessed to 5.1 via DD PL II or Neo:6 making it not true HD 5.1?
PLII can only be applied to 2-channel sources. IF you are believe you are applying PLII to a 5.1-channel source, then one of two things is actually happening: either you're using PLIIx (not PLII) or you're applying it to a 2-channel source (not 5.1).

There is no mechanism in PLII that first downmixes a discrete 5.1 source to 2 channels only to then attempt extracting the original 5.1 channels.

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post #22 of 44 Old 02-26-2014, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
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What disk are you using for your text I would like to try it as well.

What do you mean disk for my text?


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post #23 of 44 Old 02-26-2014, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post


That doesn't really make sense, since the reason to use surround processing on a 2-channel source is because you don't have a discrete multi-channel source. If you have a 5.1 soundtrack, why would you be upmixing the 2-channel track?

It's like saying video scalers does a pretty decent job scaling standard def DVDs to your high def display, but you would always use a Blu-ray over them hands down as it is real high def. This misses the reason to use video scalers: for situations when you don't have a high def version of a movie. If you do have a movie on Blu-ray, why would you be upscaling a DVD?
PLII can only be applied to 2-channel sources. IF you are believe you are applying PLII to a 5.1-channel source, then one of two things is actually happening: either you're using PLIIx (not PLII) or you're applying it to a 2-channel source (not 5.1).

There is no mechanism in PLII that first downmixes a discrete 5.1 source to 2 channels only to then attempt extracting the original 5.1 channels.

That doesn't really make sense, since the reason to use surround processing on a 2-channel source is because you don't have a discrete multi-channel source. If you have a 5.1 soundtrack, why would you be up-mixing the 2-channel track?: I'm not trying to up mix anything. A good daily example would be watching cable TV off my PVR. 90% of the channels I watch are DD 5.1 discrete multi-channel thus that be default is the input into my AVR (unless I lowered the output settings of my PVR but why would I do that?)... So with that in mind if I am running DPLII or Neo:6 DTS which is receiving my default discrete 5.1 input.... what does this do in terms of "reprocessing"? 

I am very strong minded to believe that it reprocesses the signals incorrectly as per my example above proving this.

Originally Posted by JefferyMichael View Post

I think that it may not keep the proper channels... I tested it with the IMAX "THINK BIG" DD5.1 intro... On DD5.1 the sound is proper. For example the end part of that intro the sound moves behind you as the image does accordingly. Running this on PLII does not. All of the speakers are on but its not native. edit: Nor does neo:6


My AVR supports PLIIx but I am only running 5.1 not 7.1 as I don't have the other 2 speakers.

Sony STR-DH740 Supports:


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post #24 of 44 Old 02-26-2014, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlayNice View Post


I have inquired about this which led to an email to Dolby. They replied saying Pro Logic IIx/z does not downmix the native source only adds additional channels.

Sorry I actually missed this as it was the first reply. It may not downmix the channels but its not keeping them discrete. :/

At least that was not my finding on testing with my "IMAX THINK BIG DD5.1 Intro" 

 

Originally Posted by JefferyMichael View Post

I think that it may not keep the proper channels... I tested it with the IMAX "THINK BIG" DD5.1 intro... On DD5.1 the sound is proper. For example the end part of that intro the sound moves behind you as the image does accordingly. Running this on PLII does not. All of the speakers are on but its not native. edit: Nor does neo:6

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post #25 of 44 Old 02-26-2014, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JefferyMichael View Post

if I am running DPLII or Neo:6 DTS which is receiving my default discrete 5.1 input.... what does this do in terms of "reprocessing"?
PLII cannot be applied to 5.1-channel sources, so it doesn't do any "reprocessing" of discrete 5.1 signals.
Quote:
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My AVR supports PLIIx but I am only running 5.1 not 7.1 as I don't have the other 2 speakers.
Are you sure the surround-back speakers are set to None in your receiver's speaker set-up menu?

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post #26 of 44 Old 02-26-2014, 06:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Sorry I actually missed this as it was the first reply. It may not downmix the channels but its not keeping them discrete. :/


At least that was not my finding on testing with my "IMAX THINK BIG DD5.1 Intro" 

Originally Posted by JefferyMichael go_quote.gif


I think that it may not keep the proper channels... I tested it with the IMAX "THINK BIG" DD5.1 intro... On DD5.1 the sound is proper. For example the end part of that intro the sound moves behind you as the image does accordingly. Running this on PLII does not. All of the speakers are on but its not native. edit: Nor does neo:6


~ awww snap! :P

I just ran a test using my. IMAX Under the Sea 3D disk with the IMAX Think Big intro and all it did when I added Pro Logic IIx and Neo:6 was add rear channels (5.1 ---> 7.1/6.1). I ran the test several times and that is the only difference I heard. I stood by each speaker and listened to the intro over and over. Is this what you did?

Make sure you have your speakers configured correctly in your receivers settings. That can make a muck of things if it's out of wack.

I would like to run some other test cause this has been a mystery to me that I gave up on after hearing back from Dolby, but now the box of worms is open again. If you have ideas for other test let me know.

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post #27 of 44 Old 02-26-2014, 07:22 PM
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The last laugh is on me...(kind of) I did a firmware update on my TV and now its not playing that demo file I use properly making me look like a complete ass. Not via DLNA or USB. The sounds cuts out... Maybe the file is corrupted (even though it played solid before the update)? .... good thing this is an internet debate and not one in my living room, man would that have sucked (for me).

Does anyone have a really good discrete 5.1 DD and DTS file that they could recommend I use to really give this a go. 

I MUST KNOW 100% how PL II/neo:6 is dealing w/ 5.1 signals~ This is driving me crazy!


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post #28 of 44 Old 02-26-2014, 08:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JefferyMichael View Post

The last laugh is on me...(kind of) I did a firmware update on my TV and now its not playing that demo file I use properly making me look like a complete ass. Not via DLNA or USB. The sounds cuts out... Maybe the file is corrupted (even though it played solid before the update)? .... good thing this is an internet debate and not one in my living room, man would that have sucked (for me).


Does anyone have a really good discrete 5.1 DD and DTS file that they could recommend I use to really give this a go. 


I MUST KNOW 100% how PL II/neo:6 is dealing w/ 5.1 signals~ This is driving me crazy!

I just watched Gravity 3D and was going back and forth from direct DTS HD Master 5.1 to DTS HD Master Plus Dolby Pro Logic IIx 7.1 and I still heard the detail of the Lossless track just with added channels.

I included a pic to explain what I was doing.


JefferyMichael likes this.

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post #29 of 44 Old 02-28-2014, 10:20 AM
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JM, I have a 5.1 channel test track that I could send you if that would help. A voice calls out the ID if each channel, one at a time, followed by a period of white noise.
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post #30 of 44 Old 02-28-2014, 10:48 AM
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Why leave out DD EX/ES? Whats it for?

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