How to save on the electricty bill with my audio system ? Receiver on 24/7 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 31 Old 01-21-2013, 10:14 PM - Thread Starter
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I have a Marantz Sr4002 and a pair of paradigm titans.


From what I understand, the receiver constantly draws power even though there is no sound coming out of the speakers / no input. There is no auto sleep function on the receiver ( wonder if they have this feature on the newer AVRs ? )

My situation is kind of unique because I sleep very random hours so I never want to turn off the receiver. The receiver / speaker set up is for both my TV and computer.
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post #2 of 31 Old 01-22-2013, 07:39 AM
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I think that the idle current when the receiver volume is turned all the way down is actually quite small.

It is probably a non-issue; maybe 10 watts or less.
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post #3 of 31 Old 01-22-2013, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

I think that the idle current when the receiver volume is turned all the way down is actually quite small.

It is probably a non-issue; maybe 10 watts or less.

If anybody wants to know this information with any degree of accuracy, they might want to invest in one of these:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882715001

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post #4 of 31 Old 01-22-2013, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

I think that the idle current when the receiver volume is turned all the way down is actually quite small.

It is probably a non-issue; maybe 10 watts or less.

Fair enough, but I can't help thinking that if one doesn't wish to press a button to turn off the receiver, one might be even more unwilling to spend the slightly longer time it takes to turn down the volume all the way.

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post #5 of 31 Old 01-22-2013, 09:28 AM
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If you're concerned about power comsumption and saving a pennies, use the remote, turn off the receiver. No bending over required.
If you can turn a knob to the left, you can just as easily push the power button.rolleyes.gif
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post #6 of 31 Old 01-22-2013, 09:35 AM - Thread Starter
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As I stated in the first post, I sleep very very random hours. I would have to turn it on and off 10 ++ times in a day. It gets pretty annoying
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post #7 of 31 Old 01-22-2013, 09:37 AM
 
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From what I understand, the receiver constantly draws power even though there is no sound coming out of the speakers / no input.

Where does all that power go then?
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post #8 of 31 Old 01-22-2013, 09:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by SAM64 View Post

Where does all that power go then?

heat maybe ? I am getting mixed facts in this thread from what I've read in the past. I'll get a kill a watt to do testing on my own.
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post #9 of 31 Old 01-22-2013, 09:49 AM
 
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Your amp deosn't draw the same power all the time. When it's idle, the power dissipation is the lowest.
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post #10 of 31 Old 01-22-2013, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aznbladez View Post

As I stated in the first post, I sleep very very random hours. I would have to turn it on and off 10 ++ times in a day. It gets pretty annoying
What's the difference? Either you change the volume setting up/down or you power up/down.
10++ volume up and 10++ volume down vs. power off/on 10 times:rolleyes:.
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post #11 of 31 Old 01-22-2013, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAM64 View Post

Your amp deosn't draw the same power all the time. When it's idle, the power dissipation is the lowest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aznbladez View Post

As I stated in the first post, I sleep very very random hours. I would have to turn it on and off 10 ++ times in a day. It gets pretty annoying

Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

I think that the idle current when the receiver volume is turned all the way down is actually quite small.

It is probably a non-issue; maybe 10 watts or less.

Well, I don't experience a current change from turning the volume knob up or down with no signal input. My idle current with things on is 3.9A. Others, of course may experience a different idle current depending what is powered up.

You have two choices: leave it on and pay the piper or, turn it on and off each time and save.wink.gifbiggrin.gif
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post #12 of 31 Old 01-22-2013, 06:04 PM
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3.9 A * 120 V = 468 W, a pretty good amount of power to waste.

The power amps have some idle (standing) current, but a lot of the internal analog and digital processing circuits are also running and contributing to that power drain. The hottest part of my AVR is usually over the DSP, not the power amps.

I have seen standby, off, and on, and some AVRs with programmable sleep timers, but none with auto on/standby/off. I have by no means checked out all AVRs, however, especially for that feature.

Maybe you should consider a lifestyle change, or a job that allows you to sleep more regularly?

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #13 of 31 Old 01-23-2013, 04:31 AM
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My HK AVR354 draws ~100w at idle, at my provinces rates it would cost 23 cents to idle it for 24 hours.
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post #14 of 31 Old 01-23-2013, 08:34 AM
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That's about $84 a year you could be spending on music and movies... OK, you are using it some, so maybe only $50. Or you could just give it to me. smile.gif

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #15 of 31 Old 01-23-2013, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aznbladez View Post

I have a Marantz Sr4002 and a pair of paradigm titans.


From what I understand, the receiver constantly draws power even though there is no sound coming out of the speakers / no input. There is no auto sleep function on the receiver ( wonder if they have this feature on the newer AVRs ? )

My situation is kind of unique because I sleep very random hours so I never want to turn off the receiver. The receiver / speaker set up is for both my TV and computer.

I looked at the specs on the SR4002, and it states Power Consumption is 450 watts...obviously that is not what it would be at idol. If you have the ability to put the receiver in "standby mode" you want to get both readings from the kilowatt meter...on/off and in standby mode. I did not see that your unit has a standby mode.

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post #16 of 31 Old 01-23-2013, 10:01 AM
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Here's where you lost me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aznbladez View Post

My situation is kind of unique because I sleep very random hours so I never want to turn off the receiver.

You implied that there is some kind of connection between a person's sleeping schedule and his reluctance to press a button. I personally don't see any connection between the two of any kind. Based on the responses so far, nobody else understands this connection either. So if you want anybody to understand it, you're going to have to explain it. Nobody can tell you whether another product might serve you better unless you tell them how you're using the ones you've got.
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post #17 of 31 Old 01-23-2013, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

3.9 A * 120 V = 468 W, a pretty good amount of power to waste.

The power amps have some idle (standing) current, but a lot of the internal analog and digital processing circuits are also running and contributing to that power drain.

The power dissipated by the DSP and analog components is very small in comparison to the power dumped by the amps, especially the class AB amps in most receivers. The DSP is only going to dissipate a few watts max, the quiescent current needed in class AB amps will ensure they are drawing plenty of power even at idle.
Quote:

The hottest part of my AVR is usually over the DSP, not the power amps.

Thats because they put bigger heat sinks on the amp fets than on the DSP, not because the amps are using less power.
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post #18 of 31 Old 01-23-2013, 12:04 PM
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"How to save on the electricty bill with my audio system ? Receiver on 24/7"

Turn it off.

"I sleep very very random hours. I would have to turn it on and off 10 ++ times in a day. It gets pretty annoying"

Do you turn lights on and off every day? Put your receiver on a switched outlet if the remote has dead batteries. biggrin.gif
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post #19 of 31 Old 01-23-2013, 12:52 PM
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@xianthax: My AVR uses class D amps. I should recheck with one of my other AVRs, but suspect that (a) the result would be the same and (b) due to heat spreading from the heatsinks as you said. That said, I am not sure where most AVRs bias their amps these days, but suspect it is not more than a few watts into class A. That would still be 20 W or more for 7 channels. I was thinking 10+ W for the DSP, plus all the other circuits around probably burning another few watts total, but took a look at a couple of DSP data sheets and the examples they provide are in the 2 - 3 W range. I stand corrected. I would still love to see a power analysis for a typical AVR just to see where it all goes.

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post #20 of 31 Old 01-23-2013, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aznbladez View Post

I have a Marantz Sr4002 and a pair of paradigm titans.


From what I understand, the receiver constantly draws power even though there is no sound coming out of the speakers / no input. There is no auto sleep function on the receiver ( wonder if they have this feature on the newer AVRs ? )

My situation is kind of unique because I sleep very random hours so I never want to turn off the receiver. The receiver / speaker set up is for both my TV and computer.

Modern amplifiers and receivers with their remote control and turn-on/turn-off triggers, all have a separate power supply fed by a tiny auxiliary transformer to power the remote operation/protection system. The current draw by this auxiliary transformer when the amp receiver is in standby mode is very minute, just a few milliamperes. IMO, completely turning off your receiver by itself is not going to result in any significant savings. If you really want to lower your electric bill significantly, look elsewhere.

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post #21 of 31 Old 01-23-2013, 01:39 PM
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This has got to be one of the most ridiculous threads in years! Tops any cable discussion rolleyes.gif

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post #22 of 31 Old 01-23-2013, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post

This has got to be one of the most ridiculous threads in years! Tops any cable discussion rolleyes.gif
LOL.... similar to:
Question to car mechanic.
Yo dude! It's cold/hot outside. I use my car a least 10+++ times a day. I don't want to keep turning the engine on and off. I prefer to leave it running 24/7. How do I save gasoline costs? biggrin.gif
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post #23 of 31 Old 01-23-2013, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

@xianthax: My AVR uses class D amps. I should recheck with one of my other AVRs, but suspect that (a) the result would be the same and (b) due to heat spreading from the heatsinks as you said. That said, I am not sure where most AVRs bias their amps these days, but suspect it is not more than a few watts into class A. That would still be 20 W or more for 7 channels. I was thinking 10+ W for the DSP, plus all the other circuits around probably burning another few watts total, but took a look at a couple of DSP data sheets and the examples they provide are in the 2 - 3 W range. I stand corrected. I would still love to see a power analysis for a typical AVR just to see where it all goes.

2-3W would be reasonable for a DSP going full bore, if its idle, it'll be in the mW range if not lower. The general support electronics will be very unlikely to even reach 1W.

The power supply could be drawing 10W+ at idle depending on the topology.

Class D amps have much better idle characteristics, although some topologies do pull some at idle, but they are rare in AVRs.

As for the bias current, it is going to vary based on the design but with +- 50V rails being common in AVRs even 100mA of quiescent current is 10W per channel. I've seen class AB designs with 500-1000mA of quiescent current. It really doesn't take much bias current in a high power amp to completely blow up your idle power usage.
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post #24 of 31 Old 01-23-2013, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post

This has got to be one of the most ridiculous threads in years! Tops any cable discussion rolleyes.gif

I don't know about that, maybe you should sleep on it...

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post #25 of 31 Old 01-23-2013, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by xianthax View Post

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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

@xianthax: My AVR uses class D amps. I should recheck with one of my other AVRs, but suspect that (a) the result would be the same and (b) due to heat spreading from the heatsinks as you said. That said, I am not sure where most AVRs bias their amps these days, but suspect it is not more than a few watts into class A. That would still be 20 W or more for 7 channels. I was thinking 10+ W for the DSP, plus all the other circuits around probably burning another few watts total, but took a look at a couple of DSP data sheets and the examples they provide are in the 2 - 3 W range. I stand corrected. I would still love to see a power analysis for a typical AVR just to see where it all goes.

2-3W would be reasonable for a DSP going full bore, if its idle, it'll be in the mW range if not lower. The general support electronics will be very unlikely to even reach 1W.

The power supply could be drawing 10W+ at idle depending on the topology.

Class D amps have much better idle characteristics, although some topologies do pull some at idle, but they are rare in AVRs.

As for the bias current, it is going to vary based on the design but with +- 50V rails being common in AVRs even 100mA of quiescent current is 10W per channel. I've seen class AB designs with 500-1000mA of quiescent current. It really doesn't take much bias current in a high power amp to completely blow up your idle power usage.

Thanks. Since most of my career has been designing very high speed (GHz and up, mostly radar and EW) analog & data converter circuits that mated to very high speed DSPs I don't have a real good calibration point on the DSPs in AVRs. Amplifiers I understand, but didn't think through the rails and subsequent idle draw. I don't "do" power amps as a general rule (ages since I built that old Ampzilla, SWTP, or rebuilt my old Hafler or ARC amps).

The old class A monoblocks were certainly good house heaters. smile.gif

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #26 of 31 Old 01-23-2013, 06:37 PM
 
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You are talking that for everything in the house sitting idle, maybe 2 to 4 cents max per hour. Maybe a few cents more during Winter & Summer when heating & cooling the place. I use a Ted5000 to monitor what is going on, and use it to compare to our monthly bill, to make sure the utility is doing their job.
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post #27 of 31 Old 01-23-2013, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post

You are talking that for everything in the house sitting idle, maybe 2 to 4 cents max per hour. Maybe a few cents more during Winter & Summer when heating & cooling the place. I use a Ted5000 to monitor what is going on, and use it to compare to our monthly bill, to make sure the utility is doing their job.

This would be relative to the home, your rates, etc. Was on vacation for 9 days and just happen to record the usage for those 9 days. Large fridge, freezer, dimmer LEDs, tivo on timer(30 watts), no recirc on hot water line, no laundry, still used 8kwh per day.
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post #28 of 31 Old 01-24-2013, 06:30 AM
 
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Like I said, average use when the home is sitting idle, is any where from 2 to 4 cents per hour, depending on what is in the home drawing power.
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post #29 of 31 Old 01-24-2013, 06:59 AM
 
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Like I said, average use when the home is sitting idle, is any where from 2 to 4 cents per hour,

yes, you do keep saying it..doesn't mean it's true for everyone, as mentioned.
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post #30 of 31 Old 01-26-2013, 03:51 PM - Thread Starter
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I tested with a kill a watt and it came out to about 51 watt with nothing being played. Wattage does not increase when volume is turned up or down. It increases only 3-5 watt with something being played at medium level and around 10 when something is on loud.

It isn't that bad but still substantial. Another reason I made this thread is because I'm thinking of upgrading to Floorstanding Paradigm Monitor or even the studios and I may have to get a separate amp ( most likely an Emotiva) for that.
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