Best use of $400 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 20 Old 02-06-2013, 01:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Please see a list of my equipment and specs below. Just trying to figure out what the best use of $400 is to upgrade my system is. The non brand matching Def Tech Center Channel is due to space requirements in media center so do not say that please wink.gif


Amp to power under powered Polk TSI400's - Emotiva UPA-200 Stereo Power Amplifier $349
  • 125 watts
  • 8ohms
  • 2 channels


Replace sub with Definitive ProSub 800 $399
  • 8in sub
  • 300 Watt amplifier
  • 20 Hz - 150 Hz


Receiver- Marantz - NR1403 - 50w x 5
Front's - Polk - Tsi400 - 20-200w - 44hz-22khz - 91db
Center - Definitive Technology - Procenter 1000 - 10-200w - 47hz-30khz - 90db
Rear's - Polk - M10 - 20-100w - 60hz-24khz - 90db
Sub - Polk -RM6880 (part of the HTIB package) - 130w dynamic / 65w average - 32-180hz
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post #2 of 20 Old 02-06-2013, 02:07 PM
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Your Polks are not underpowered. A new amp would be a waste. By default, that leaves the sub (since you've barred us from recommending the right answer!).

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

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post #3 of 20 Old 02-06-2013, 02:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnarus View Post

Your Polks are not underpowered. A new amp would be a waste. By default, that leaves the sub (since you've barred us from recommending the right answer!).

haha i apologized please recommend the right answer

I am sure the Polk speakers are great. I guess they just lack the overall dynamic I thought that they would carry. I hope that makes sense. Missing mids and lows.

My speakers are set to large on my receiver and it is setup with audyssey. I should check my crossover setting I guess. I think it is set to 60hz..

My room is 20x20 but open concept on the rear facing wall that extends another 15ft. with a half wall divider.

Never the less I await your opinion.
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post #4 of 20 Old 02-06-2013, 05:50 PM
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The right answer is room treatment (assuming you don't have any)

My Room
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/studio-building-acoustics/817205-my-listening-room.html

My Music
http://rateyourmusic.com/~jim1961

My Equipment

Rega - Apollo
Rega - DAC
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Jenzen Next ( http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Jenzen-NEXT.htm )
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post #5 of 20 Old 02-06-2013, 06:00 PM
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missing is some important info.
room layout, mlp location, is room open or closed......need more data to assess....

do you sit 6-7 feet or 12+ feet away?
is this a small bedroom or large basement?
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post #6 of 20 Old 02-06-2013, 06:12 PM
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^^^ rolleyes.gif

Looking at the equipment, the sub seems to be your weak point.

Get the new sub, set your speakers to small and enjoy.
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post #7 of 20 Old 02-06-2013, 06:32 PM
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Ha missed room info ya sub is the obvious choice


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post #8 of 20 Old 02-06-2013, 07:52 PM
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I suspect that a Klipsch RW-12d would significantly outperform the DefTech sub that you're considering:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1390563/klipsch-rw-12d-omnimic-frequency-response-graphs/0_40

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882780078
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post #9 of 20 Old 02-06-2013, 11:52 PM
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I'd also offer up the simplest DIY subwoofer, using a 15" driver from parts express $230 give or take
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=295-420
, a "flat pack" - precut subwoofer enclosure you simply glue it -$95 plus shipping http://www.diysoundgroup.com/flat-packs-1/subwoofer-flatpacks-2/3-sub-flat-pack.html, plus a 1000 watt plate amp $330
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=300-809

This is $700 ish total, nothing store bought for $1200 will touch it.
Could do similar on a 12" driver setup in a smaller 2 cu ft sealed box close to $500....use a 500 watt plate amp.


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post #10 of 20 Old 02-07-2013, 03:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteout007 View Post


My speakers are set to large on my receiver and it is setup with Audyssey. I should check my crossover setting I guess. I think it is set to 60hz..

Setting the speakers to large bypasses the high pass filters that your satellites need to work well. Fail!
Quote:
My room is 20x20 but open concept on the rear facing wall that extends another 15ft. with a half wall divider.
.

Big room.

You aren't under-amped, you are badly configured and lack a sub that can haul the mail.

Here is what a highly optimistic computer model says about your satellites.

Freq,Hz Max SPL, DB

10 71
20 84
30 91
40 96
50 99
60 103
70 105
80 108
90 110
100 111
110 113
120 115
130 116
140 117
150 119
160 120
170 121

To give satisfying bass and be reasonably clean they need to be high-passed at 90Hz or more.

Once you get your main speaker situation somewhat straightened out, that 10" so-called subwoofer needs help. I'm thinking an investment of $500-1K with one of the subwoofer specialists like SVS or Hsu. 12, hopefully 15 inches and a quality piece. Powersound Audio impresses me as a subwoofer supplier because of the depth of tech data on their site. If is real, people should pay more attention to them.
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post #11 of 20 Old 02-07-2013, 08:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Please see pictures of my room. This is my main living room so room treatments are limited but I am open to suggestions.

My crossover is to full based on the front left and right tower based on the audyssey setup.

The condo is new construction. Floor is concrete below. Have neighbors above so sub cannot be to loud may rule out 15's. However sound insulation seems to be really good. so leaning towards Polk PSW505 for 189 on amazon seems like a great dal
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post #12 of 20 Old 02-07-2013, 09:04 AM - Thread Starter
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i will switch crossover to 90hz on fronts and set to small thanks for the input!
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post #13 of 20 Old 02-07-2013, 09:21 AM
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Before you spend $$$ on subwoofers I suggest you look at this website, http://www.data-bass.com/home, for objective comparisions of both commercial and DIY subwoofers.
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Mission Statement
To provide real and relative measurements among home, car and pro audio subwoofers in order to advance the understanding of system design, tradeoffs and real world performance.
In essence, we're just a few guys with a lot of passion for loudspeakers. We do not consider ourselves audiophiles but rather audio enthusiasts. We're not going to write about what we think something sounds like, but rather how something performs with real empirical data to back it up. We generally keep our opinions to a minimum and try and expose the scientific data in a meaningful and understandable way.

Read some of their articles also
http://www.data-bass.com/articles
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post #14 of 20 Old 02-07-2013, 10:07 AM
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Your towers seem way too far apart in your pics.

I will reiterate that all your speakers should be set to small with a crossover around 90-120, pick the one that sounds best in terms of bass.

AVR: DENON 2113ci
FL/R: Klipschorn
CC: Klipsch RC64ii
SUR: Polk LS F/X x 4
SUB: PSA XS15 x 4 + MiniDSP 2x4
DISP: Mitsubishi WD-73740
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post #15 of 20 Old 02-07-2013, 11:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post

Your towers seem way too far apart in your pics.

I will reiterate that all your speakers should be set to small with a crossover around 90-120, pick the one that sounds best in terms of bass.


The pictures may have skewed how far the speakers appear the be apart the speak



that is a 60in tv in the middle


I will try the crossover at different levels between 90-120
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post #16 of 20 Old 02-07-2013, 01:26 PM
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Yep, sub deficiency for sure.

That's what I'd do, get a DIYsoundgroup flat pack sub, that fits your budget, and speand your time on learning how to optimally set up and config your new sub, and optimize loudspeaker /room acoustic interface.

Those steps, a sub and some set up optimizing, will dramatically alter your perspective of your system's capability to communicate the intended effect of the director (films), or artist (music). This won't be insignificant.

I'd guess, that properly executed, a subjective doubling of capability would likely occur. Contemporary material, be it associated with TV, movies, or music, can't properly be reproduced by your existing sub.

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------------------------------------
Active 16.8kw, 7.3 system
(3)Seaton Cat12C up front, (4)QSC K8 sides/rears
(2)Seaton SubM-HP, (4)18" IB
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post #17 of 20 Old 02-07-2013, 02:41 PM
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I'm assuming that black box next to your TV stand is your sub...? Since it is woefully under powered, you'd be much better off with it in a corner and with near-field placement - like the corner to the left of your couch for instance.

AVR: DENON 2113ci
FL/R: Klipschorn
CC: Klipsch RC64ii
SUR: Polk LS F/X x 4
SUB: PSA XS15 x 4 + MiniDSP 2x4
DISP: Mitsubishi WD-73740
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post #18 of 20 Old 02-26-2013, 02:30 PM - Thread Starter
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thanks for the input guys. I ended up using my $150 amazon gift car to to pick up a bic f12 for $189 shipped on amazon.

Then was able to sell my marantz 1403 for $320 that i paid $250 for and get a good deal on a new marantz sr 6007 $899 (currently still selling form $1,199 at most places) the receiver gives me a decent bump in power from 50w to 110w per channel 2 channels driven however that $550 would have been better spent on an amp.

I moved the f12 to the corner sounds great
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post #19 of 20 Old 03-01-2013, 04:56 PM
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How about a BFM table tuba, after some REW analisys

THE BIG ROOM: Mitsy DLP 73837 Xbox1 PS3 slim Panny BD 220
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post #20 of 20 Old 03-02-2013, 09:55 AM - Thread Starter
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the table tubas are neat i did not know they existed. i do not think i am going to do a REW analysis. Seems like a lot of work. audysessy does a pretty good job with the setup.
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