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post #1 of 55 Old 02-14-2013, 06:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Are acoustic panels size proportional to room size?



like for a small room can I get away w/ small panels?

I would prefer small unobtruesive panels.

this is a guest room now my TV room & study.

Whats the minimum size of acoustic panels & base traps?

I would like to start w/ small 7" triangles in the front ceiling corners and a 7" panel from ceiling to bottom of front speakers both stuffed w/ egg crate sponge and covered w/ sheer white cloth.

is a 7" triangle to small for a top ceiling base trap?

I located the position for the right side panel w/ a mirror it's right behind the window unsure of the left side panel because of the desk and the angle of the speaker.

will a unbalanced room be worst off than a untreated room?

I read about the positive effect that acoustic panels create is there any negatives?

Objective is to be able to crank it up and not be disturbing others outside this TV room.
Thanks STB

 

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post #2 of 55 Old 02-14-2013, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevethebrain View Post

Are acoustic panels size proportional to room size?



like for a small room can I get away w/ small panels?

I would prefer small unobtrusive panels.

I would prefer to be a multi-millionaire. ;-)
Quote:
this is a guest room now my TV room & study.

Whats the minimum size of acoustic panels & base traps?

2' x 4' for panels and maybe a foot diagonal across the corner for bass traps.
Quote:
I would like to start w/ small 7" triangles in the front ceiling corners and a 7" panel from ceiling to bottom of front speakers both stuffed w/ egg crate sponge and covered w/ sheer white cloth.

LOL!
Quote:
is a 7" triangle to small for a top ceiling base trap?

By a goodly factor.

Quote:
I located the position for the right side panel w/ a mirror it's right behind the window unsure of the left side panel because of the desk and the angle of the speaker.

will a unbalanced room be worst off than a untreated room?

Probably not.
Quote:
I read about the positive effect that acoustic panels create is there any negatives?

Umm, appearance.

Quote:
Objective is to be able to crank it up and not be disturbing others outside this TV room.
Thanks STB

You are playing in the wrong league. Sound transmission and sound absorption are two different games.
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post #3 of 55 Old 02-14-2013, 08:03 AM
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in small rooms that lack the existence of a reverberant sound-field at ANY frequency us humans are concerned with, we do not apply absorption statistically.

we deal with focused specular reflections - indirect energy of which the vector (arrival direction), gain, and time-arrival can all be discretely identified (measured).

an absorber used to attenuate an indirect specular reflection needs to be sufficiently LARGE with respect to wavelength of the lower schroeder cut-off (transition region - dependent upon boundary dimensions). this is irrespective of the thickness and properties (GFR) of the porous absorber, which dictates LF roll-off.

the absorber also need to be constructed as large as physically required in order to attenuate across the entire listening position (if you have a row vs a single listening position, for example).
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post #4 of 55 Old 02-15-2013, 03:44 AM - Thread Starter
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My audio in this room sounds excellent however if there's a way to improve I'm in.

I was thinking even a small well placed panels would be effective. Probabley better than no panel at all. Here's a couple examples I see on the net.
I esititmate each of these base traps placed in upper corner not to excede 7"s and the cieling piece in the middle no more than 3".

are you Guy's saying this is a wasted effort?

Thanks localhost for the scienticfic explaination. I assume when you capitized large a small is not a good plan.
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post #5 of 55 Old 02-15-2013, 05:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevethebrain View Post

Here's a couple examples I see on the net.
I esititmate each of these base traps placed in upper corner not to excede 7"s and the cieling piece in the middle no more than 3".

those upper tri-corner and ceiling corner absorbers are too small and thin to contribute to any appreciable LF absorption. a case of "operator error".

the same can be said for the 2nd photo example regarding the open-cell foam panel absorbers. a thin porous absorber used to attenuate an indirect specular reflection will merely function as a low-pass-filter, as it is not sufficiently thick to attenuate the full broadband indirect specular reflection. it will attenuate the mid-HF band allowing the lower band to persist (which colors/filters/eq's the reflection). the colored reflection will then continue to impede the listening position. it is generally this lower energy (band) that requires the most attention, as typical speakers will disperse more of this low energy off-axis and these lower/longer wavelengths contain inherently more energy content.
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are you Guy's saying this is a wasted effort?

there are very simple "best practices" for treatments that are easy to construct from readily sourced materials for a given application.
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post #6 of 55 Old 02-15-2013, 09:48 AM
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Steve, your rooms belie a degree of effort based on partial understanding. Most of what I can suggest is common sense, and I apologize if it seems too basic.

I see "wasted effort" in looking for solutions before a problem has been defined. Don't ask if panel size is related to room size, ask what panel characteristics you need to accomplish your goal.

Define your goals first, then ask how to achieve them.

How do you define your specific goals? There are some things that nearly everyone agrees are "good." Uniform low bass response with frequency and with seating location is one. Imaging is one that garners lots of disagreement, between the "pinpoint imaging" folks and the "speakers disappear" folks. You have to understand your preferences, your desires, what sounds good to you to maximize bang for your buck. Then stick to your guns when someone tells you you're "wrong."

The most important variable in small room acoustic optimization is room construction: what are the walls/ceiling/floor made of, how much sound is reflected at these boundaries, how much is absorbed, how much leaks out. Any room below grade is a candidate for worst-case bass modes, due to the very low absorption and transmission losses from cinderblocks backed by earth. Conversely, above-grade, stick construction is rife with acoustic leakage paths and absorption devices in the room, resulting in an absence of bass modes, and potentially a need to reduce bass loss in extreme cases to achieve flat response.

Thankfully, bass issues aren't hard to find, either with ears and test tones, or with simple acoustic measurement gear. If you have excess bass reflectivity in your room, your corner treatments aren't going to address it. Panel approaches are disadvantaged by their very nature as resistive absorbers - they work at pressure nodes, where air displacement is maximized. That means away from walls - no resistive absorber has low bass effect hung on the wall. Infrasonic control requires a different approach, designed for low bass absorption.

Just define the problem first, so you can test effectivity as you go.

In the photos, I see lots of absorber-type stuff hung on walls at tweeter/ear level. The panels at first reflection points tells me you've designed both your rooms for pinpoint imaging, and MTMs are a good choice for such a room goal. I am firmly rooted in the opposite camp, but... If you want to treat first reflections, an Energy Time Curve (ETC) measurement provides the pertinent data. I would suggest an itterative process using mirrors to identify first reflections, and test panels to verify which peaks in the ETC correspond to a given mirror location. I suspect this is all very familiar to you...

This is one place where Localhost is exactly correct; if you want to kill first reflection points, do so with a broad-band absorber. Your thin panels start to lose effectiveness in the lower midrange, and the effect is a change in timbre, just what you alledgedly seek to preserve by this treatment. Otherwise, take whatever localhost says with a grain of salt. He can't explain most of his advice...

The one treatment type I don't see is diffusers. Diffuser design varies from simple polycylindrical devices to fractal quadratic residue devices, and they have a degree of absorption resulting from the diffusion. I personally find their effect to be subtle, but there are cases where diffusion is the only absorption used, and it's not subtle aurally or visually.

So... what have you got behind those walls? What are the problems you'd like to addresss?

HAve fun,
Frank
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post #7 of 55 Old 02-15-2013, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevethebrain View Post

My audio in this room sounds excellent however if there's a way to improve I'm in.

I was thinking even a small well placed panels would be effective. Probabley better than no panel at all. Here's a couple examples I see on the net.
I esititmate each of these base traps placed in upper corner not to excede 7"s and the cieling piece in the middle no more than 3".

are you Guy's saying this is a wasted effort?
Yes, those baby corner traps aren't big enough to make a good G-string, let alone appreciably change the acoustics of the room. ;-)

This looks more like something that would be effective:





In the finished picture the rug under the chair is for comfort and appearance, not so much for acoustics. I presume that the absorber on the ceiling above the chair is doing the work that many people are disappointed when the carpeting on the floor fails to absorb bass, which it always will. Point being that it is difficult to get an absorber with enough thickness on the floor, but the ceiling works at least as well.
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post #8 of 55 Old 02-15-2013, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

Yes, those baby corner traps aren't big enough to make a good G-string, let alone appreciably change the acoustics of the room. ;-)

Don't make me post the link to my Acoustic Treatment Exposed video where a totally naked lady makes that exact point. eek.gif

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post #9 of 55 Old 02-15-2013, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan Winer View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

Yes, those baby corner traps aren't big enough to make a good G-string, let alone appreciably change the acoustics of the room. ;-)

Don't make me post the link to my Acoustic Treatment Exposed video where a totally naked lady makes that exact point. eek.gif

--Ethan

where strategic placement of props/stuff make for a pg-13 rating, right.

Chant: post the link ... post the link
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post #10 of 55 Old 02-15-2013, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post

where strategic placement of props/stuff make for a pg-13 rating, right.

Chant: post the link ... post the link

It was easy enough to find... and to forward to about 9 minutes or so, and no, there was not much strategic placement.

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post #11 of 55 Old 02-16-2013, 05:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by localhost127 View Post

those upper tri-corner and ceiling corner absorbers are too small and thin to contribute to any appreciable LF absorption. a case of "operator error".

.
would a 10" triangle be to small?

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Originally Posted by fbov View Post

Define your goals first, then ask how to achieve them.

.

Just define the problem first, so you can test effectivity as you go.

,
Frank
Frank the Objective is to be able to crank it up and not be disturbing others outside this TV room.
Thanks STB

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

Yes, those baby corner traps aren't big enough to make a good G-string, let alone appreciably change the acoustics of the room. ;-)

This looks more like something that would be effective:





.
those upper tri-corner and ceiling corner absorbers are too small and thin to contribute to any appreciable LF absorption. a case of "operator error".

WOW thats way more than I'm prepared for.




I'm planning a rear wall wooden diffuser and aim the small surrounds at the difusser. also a right side eggcrate absorber
2reardiffusers.jpg


I'm willing to go maxium vertical corner and triangle panels 10"s like this example image.

would this be better than nothing for the front of room?


smallverticalpanels.jpg

I'm curious why some folks use upper traiangles and lower vertical (floor to mid wall) and other folks just use a vertical from floor to cieling?

 

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post #12 of 55 Old 02-17-2013, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevethebrain View Post

the Objective is to be able to crank it up and not be disturbing others outside this TV room.[/quoet]

Then you are barking up totally the wrong tree.

Here is more like the right tree:

http://www.alfwarnock.info/sound/

http://www.acoustic-material.com/HTML/thru-walls.html

http://www.findanyfloor.com/sound/SoundTransmission.xhtml
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post #13 of 55 Old 02-18-2013, 07:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevethebrain View Post

the Objective is to be able to crank it up and not be disturbing others outside this TV room.[/quoet]

Then you are barking up totally the wrong tree.

Here is more like the right tree:

http://www.alfwarnock.info/sound/

http://www.acoustic-material.com/HTML/thru-walls.html

http://www.findanyfloor.com/sound/SoundTransmission.xhtml
Actualley I would like to have both sound deadening and sound proofing the improvement in sound quaility would be more desireable than the sound proofing, thanks for links I'll look them over.

how doe's this sponge look for base trapes and side & rear of front speakers absorbers?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-inch-Foam-Twin-Bed-Pad-Mattress-EggCrate-Egg-Crate-/350320834400?pt=US_Mattress_Pads_and_Feather_Beds&hash=item5190bfb760
or maybe this would be good enought? This sponge is a thinner King size so maybe I could fold it doubleing the thickness of the sponge?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Beautyrest-Convoluted-Foam-Mattress-Topper-/350692099690?_trksid=p2047675.m2109&_trkparms=aid%3D555003%26algo%3DPW.CAT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D142%26meid%3D5683165157491770444%26pid%3D100010%26prg%3D1076%26rk%3D2%26sd%3D350320834400%26

waiting on response about rear wooden diffussors and why some folks have the corner panels from floor to mid wall and other folks have corner panel from floor to cieling?
additionale ?
I understand that building a panel w/ fiberglass there must be a air gap inbetween the wall and back of panel doe's this same rule apply to a sponge panel?
Thanks STB

 

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post #14 of 55 Old 02-18-2013, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevethebrain View Post

...Frank the Objective is to be able to crank it up and not be disturbing others outside this TV room....
Ignoring quoting issues, +1 to arny's response, which you've clarified. I'll mention headphones, just this once...

It's far easier to deaden a room (no sound coming in) OR optimize acoustic performance. Doing both is a challenge, as leakage is a big part of a good sounding, modestly furnished room.

Given the crossed purposes, I recommend reading Everest's Master Handbook of Acoustics. Read the whole thing like a novel, then come back and study the bits you're interested in.
http://andrealbino.wikispaces.com/file/view/Master+Handbook+of+Acoustics+-+5th+Edition+-+F.+Alton+Everest,+Ken+C.+Pohlmann.pdf

Specific topics should include Chpt 12 on absorbers, Chpt 14 on Diffusers, and Chpts 16-20 on rooms and noise. Some stuff is outdated, but lots of practical value.

You've mentioned mattress toppers... I would suggest using more effective materials. Owens Corning publishes absorption data for their OC70x panels. See if you can find that data for mattress foam...

Finally, note the difference in absorption between foam-based devices and real bass traps in Chpt 12. Nothing absorbs much bass in Chpt 12 until Fig 12-23. If you understand that chapter, you'll realize there are no pictures of bass traps above, in this thread. Lots of corners filled with OC70x, forming a broadband absorber with some bass reach, but not designed as a bass trap and so of limited effectiveness compared with a proper design. What makes a proper design? A panel in front of a layer of absorber forming a sealed cavity. Perforate the panel to modify/broaden the absorption, or make it deeper/heavier to deepen the absorption. If you have a single mode problem, a Helmholtz trap in the corner might suffice.

That's why I talked so much about understang the problem. There are lots of options for effective devices, which although large, are consistent with the level of construction needed for true soundproofing.

Have fun,
Frank
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post #15 of 55 Old 02-19-2013, 05:01 AM - Thread Starter
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you Guy's are way to involved w/ this subject. I'm not interested in reading 20 chapters all I wanted to know was size of panels
and Arnold B. Krueger was nice enought to provide the answer.


"2' x 4' for panels and maybe a foot diagonal across the corner for bass traps."


still waiting on response about rear wooden diffussors and why some folks have the corner panels from floor to mid wall and other folks have corner panel from floor to cieling?
additionale ?

I am not interested in having fiberglass panels I don't want tiny particals of fiberglass in my breathing air.

I understand that building a panel w/ fiberglass there must be a air gap inbetween the wall and back of panel doe's this same rule apply to a sponge panel?

The Bueatyrest sponge is 1" thick when I fold it once to make 2" having the eggcrate face the listening area and the wall would the EC facing the wall create enough air gap between wall and sponge?


Thanks STB

 

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post #16 of 55 Old 02-19-2013, 05:40 AM
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Quote:
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Finally, note the difference in absorption between foam-based devices and real bass traps in Chpt 12. Nothing absorbs much bass in Chpt 12 until Fig 12-23. If you understand that chapter, you'll realize there are no pictures of bass traps above, in this thread. Lots of corners filled with OC70x, forming a broadband absorber with some bass reach, but not designed as a bass trap and so of limited effectiveness compared with a proper design.

all small rooms benefit from broadband LF absorption, while (lower octave) axial modes are best addressed with pressure-based absorbers.
it's merely a misconception that denser materials (oc703, oc705) are more effective for LF absorption regarding porous-only (velocity-based) absorbers - as is continually propagated or assumed. instead, materials with low gas flow resistivity should be used (uncompressed) when the corner absorbers are sufficiently thick. complex acoustical impedance.

poorly designed LF porous absorbers (as presented above) is merely another example of operator error.
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What makes a proper design? A panel in front of a layer of absorber forming a sealed cavity. Perforate the panel to modify/broaden the absorption, or make it deeper/heavier to deepen the absorption. If you have a single mode problem, a Helmholtz trap in the corner might suffice.

http://soundflow.afmg.eu/index.php/sf-features-en.html
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post #17 of 55 Old 02-19-2013, 06:27 AM
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As usual, localhost brings perfect information to the table.

If you still want the room to sound better, why don't you just double up in those corner superchunks so they're floor to ceiling? You could do the same for the rear and the other corners. Ceiling reflections also should be considered as well.

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post #18 of 55 Old 02-22-2013, 01:37 AM - Thread Starter
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doe's rockwool have asbestos in it? if not then

I'm thinking this rockwool maybe have better results than the sponge? wonder much doe's it cost. apparently HD is forceing me to buy a big package of this rockwool.

I'm curious why I see recording studios covered w/ sponge?

STB

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post #19 of 55 Old 02-22-2013, 04:45 AM
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doe's rockwool have asbestos in it?

No. I'm sure that these days people assiduously avoid asbestos. Classic rockwool is made out of slag from processing iron ore into iron.
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I'm thinking this rockwool maybe have better results than the sponge?

Rockwool and fiberglass are generally very comparable.
Quote:
wonder much does it cost.

Since rockwool is made out of a by-product, it has the potential to be very inexpensive. Of course fiberglass is made out of very cheap minerals, so...
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apparently HD is forceing me to buy a big package of this rockwool.

That is a retailer thing.
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I'm curious why I see recording studios covered w/ sponge?

It looks so cool.
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post #20 of 55 Old 02-23-2013, 05:40 AM - Thread Starter
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on a scale of 1-10 how much of an audio improvement will I have w/ 4 triangle bass traps 12", a 2'X24'X3 1/2" directly behind main speakers 2'x2' first reflextion panel (side wall) and a 20'x20' wooden diffuser like in post 11.?
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http://www.roxul.com/residential/where+to+insulate/home+theatre+room

edit: I could lay this stuff up above the cieling in the attic what will this improve sound proofing or improved audio or both?

 

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post #21 of 55 Old 03-03-2013, 07:40 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm planning to make 1' triangles for the upper 4 corners, stuffed w/ 3" layers of Roxul rockwool safe and sound .

panels directly behind mains( mounted verticalley) and center (mounted horizontalley) I would like to be 18" wide X 36" high X 3" thick ?do you think this will be to small or to thin? remember I have bookshelfs as mains.

panels on the side wall will be just a tad smaller than 2' X 2'

planning a wooden rear wall difusser. 20" X 20"

still waiting on response to ? on a scale of 1-10 how much of an audio improvement will I have? remember it allready sounds excellent.
STB

 

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The little triangles won't do anything for LF response and not much for midrange...

You should read some of the articles on www.realtraps.com and contact Ethan for advice and help. You should first figure out what your room needs, and where, then decide what to build and where to put it.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #23 of 55 Old 03-03-2013, 11:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevethebrain View Post

I'm planning to make 1' triangles for the upper 4 corners, stuffed w/ 3" layers of Roxul rockwool safe and sound .

panels directly behind mains( mounted verticalley) and center (mounted horizontalley) I would like to be 18" wide X 36" high X 3" thick ?do you think this will be to small or to thin? remember I have bookshelfs as mains.

panels on the side wall will be just a tad smaller than 2' X 2'

planning a wooden rear wall difusser. 20" X 20"

still waiting on response to ? on a scale of 1-10 how much of an audio improvement will I have? remember it allready sounds excellent.
STB

Your scale doesn't really compute. Its hard to tell you how much of an improvement you'll have when we're not sure what area you're trying to better. It will certainly sound different, but if you need low frequency absorption - then it wont be much better as your panels only absorb mids and up (and there's still not a ton of them, and they're small in size compared to normal absorbers). I think if you perhaps changed your small 1' triangles in the corners to full floor-to-ceiling superchunks you'll be much better off with your current plan. This way you'll have absorption down to the lower octaves.

Diffusor on the back wall could give some great results. A single 20" x 20" diffusor though is quite small, you likely won't notice a massive difference from one that small. Might want to try ~4x that size. How far will you be from the diffusor? Are you purchasing or building one? 1D or Skyline? (I prefer 1D btw, if my opinion is necessary on the matter).

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post #24 of 55 Old 03-04-2013, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

You should read some of the articles on www.realtraps.com and contact Ethan for advice and help. You should first figure out what your room needs, and where, then decide what to build and where to put it.

Thanks for the mention Don. One huge advantage of buying commercial acoustic products is the vendor will figure out what products are best for a given budget and tell you exactly where to put them. Some people want to learn as much as possible, but just as many want a solution handed to them. cool.gif

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post #25 of 55 Old 03-04-2013, 07:54 PM
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NP, Ethan. I want to learn, but do not want to waste money (and time! -- worth way more than money) better spent on other things (music, movies, kid's college fund). The advice of an expert makes going the commercial route cheaper in the long run and results in much better performance. I learned long ago (and yet have to keep learning again) that a few hours' study of a few books and piddling around on my own does not an expert make. Except maybe on the 'net... I have graduate degrees in EE including some grad acoustics classes, spent several years in my youth helping design and install hundreds of sound systems both home and commercial, and the help of a friendly expert like Ethan is more than worth it! It took decades to reach a high level of expertise in my own field, no reason to think it takes any less in any other field. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing etc.

Take advantage of the experts.

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post #26 of 55 Old 03-04-2013, 08:05 PM
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since this seems to be the most current thread for room acoustics discussions I thought I would post my question here, my apologies to the OP for hijacking a bit.

In my HT setup the corner behind the left front has a taller cieling (by about a foot) than the right due to a bulkhead that starts at the right side of the room but does not go all the way across. Interestingly enough this left corner did not produce any appreciable bass when the sub was placed there even though the house was shaking upstairs (HT is in basement). after a sub crawl the sub was moved to the right corner. My question is would the left corner be a good spot for a bass trap or does what I have described have no real meaning?
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post #27 of 55 Old 03-04-2013, 10:31 PM
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It would take a little bit of investigating to figure out the exact cause. Of course, if it was different in one corner than the other, and all other factors were the same except ceiling height, it would certainly indicate the need of trapping around there. What it sounds like is that the extra ceiling height at that area shifted an SBIR null into a more audible frequency (or at least, a more common frequency) - which would result in the same perception (quiet bass, even though its pumping out its normal amounts of power).

SBIR is typically solved by relocating the speaker and/or placing an absorber between the sub and the boundary that is causing the issue. A bit more indepth on SBIR here: http://gikacoustics.com/speaker-boundary-interference-response-sbir/

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post #28 of 55 Old 03-05-2013, 01:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GIK Acoustics View Post

Your scale doesn't really compute. Its hard to tell you how much of an improvement you'll have when we're not sure what area you're trying to better. It will certainly sound different, but if you need low frequency absorption - then it wont be much better as your panels only absorb mids and up (and there's still not a ton of them, and they're small in size compared to normal absorbers). I think if you perhaps changed your small 1' triangles in the corners to full floor-to-ceiling superchunks you'll be much better off with your current plan. This way you'll have absorption down to the lower octaves. Having tri-panel bass traps from floor to cieling isn't a option (just don't want a room full of panels plus on the left wall front corner has a door rear corner has a closet ) the small triangles in the upper corners is doable. the upper corner triangles diemensions 12' triangle depth will be 5's (three layers of rockwool) so it will be small but thick.

Diffusor on the back wall could give some great results. A single 20" x 20" diffusor though is quite small, you likely won't notice a massive difference from one that small. Might want to try ~4x that size. How far will you be from the diffusor? Are you purchasing or building one? 1D or Skyline? (I prefer 1D btw, if my opinion is necessary on the matter).

here's the link to the diffusser I'm concidering on probablley two. difusser will be located on middle of back wall about 2' and 4' to right of chair.
http://railroadavenuerecording.com/blog/2011/10/10/my-diy-acoustic-treatment.html

edit I have some plastic panels (I think this would help contain the icthie material) diemensions 18"x36" that I could stuff a section of 3" rockwool in easy then cover the front w/ cloth. these diemensions are kindof close to the premade panels of 2'X4'.you'r thought on this panel size for behind the front speakers?

this size panel also matchs the size of my cabinet where the panels will be placed beside.

 

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post #29 of 55 Old 03-05-2013, 09:16 AM
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Having tri-panel bass traps from floor to cieling isn't a option (just don't want a room full of panels plus on the left wall front corner has a door rear corner has a closet ) the small triangles in the upper corners is doable. the upper corner triangles diemensions 12' triangle depth will be 5's (three layers of rockwool) so it will be small but thick.

I'm just suggesting this plan you propose will not absorb low frequencies well. You will get some benefit, but again:
Your scale doesn't really compute. Its hard to tell you how much of an improvement you'll have when we're not sure what area you're trying to better. It will certainly sound different, but if you need low frequency absorption - then it wont be much better as your panels only absorb mids and up (and there's still not a ton of them, and they're small in size compared to normal absorbers).
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevethebrain View Post

here's the link to the diffusser I'm concidering on probablley two. difusser will be located on middle of back wall about 2' and 4' to right of chair.
http://railroadavenuerecording.com/blog/2011/10/10/my-diy-acoustic-treatment.html

I usually don't recommend skyline diffusors for most situations. You usually get a bigger benefit and cheaper cost of building 1D diffusors (plus they're much lighter). And 20" x 20" is still very small - I don't see you gaining huge benefits from it. I'd suggest instead perhaps building bigger panels on the back wall with slats in front for a combo diffusion/absorption/scattering - much more cost effective and just much more effective in general for dealing with multiple issues in the room at once. So I'd recommend 1D diffusors or panels with slats on the back over skylines personally.
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edit I have some plastic panels (I think this would help contain the icthie material) diemensions 18"x36" that I could stuff a section of 3" rockwool in easy then cover the front w/ cloth. these diemensions are kindof close to the premade panels of 2'X4'.you'r thought on this panel size for behind the front speakers?

this size panel also matchs the size of my cabinet where the panels will be placed beside.

These would probably be fine for SBIR (so yes, they'd be fine for the purpose you've described)

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post #30 of 55 Old 03-05-2013, 12:05 PM
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would the left corner be a good spot for a bass trap or does what I have described have no real meaning?

The best place for a bass trap is wherever in the room bass builds up. This is usually in the corners, but the entire rear wall is also a good candidate. This short article and file download will help you find the best places for bass traps:

Pink noise aids placing bass traps

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