Any point in using REW with limited sub placement options? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 15 Old 02-26-2013, 04:55 PM - Thread Starter
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From what I've gathered from reading the forum the last few days is that REW is really helpful in integrating subs into a system, analyzing room treatments, and building speakers. I have no plans on pursuing the latter two activities, but I did buy my first sub. However, due to the fact that the listening space is in a family room I only have 4 spots to place the sub (either side of the couch, or either side of the TV stand). Is there any good reason for me to invest in a mic and learning REW with my limited options? Any other reason other than sub placement that REW might benefit me?

Running a Marantz 5006 with Audyssey XT.
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post #2 of 15 Old 02-26-2013, 10:35 PM
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The most important reason to use REW is to understand more about room acoustics. Whether you can do something about what it is showing is an entirely different manner. It is like learning to read an X-Ray and being treat to patient smile.gif. I think anyone interested in audio in a serious way should take the plunge and blow I mean, spend smile.gif, a few weekends measuring their rooms. It is a fundamental skill that many audio enthusiasts do not have.

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post #3 of 15 Old 02-26-2013, 10:41 PM
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I agree with amirm. I used it to correct the position of my Klipsch Heresies by moving them off the ground on top of the subwoofers and correct the crossover of the AS 2.100 hypex amp to 80Hz, achieving a much flatter response that to me improved the sound substantially.
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post #4 of 15 Old 02-27-2013, 08:42 AM
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When you can measure you can see and prove the impact a change makes to your system. So you can optimize your current set up (such as optimizing the crossover transition range between mains and a sub) and improve it's performance. You can tweak speaker placement and levels to take your current system to the next level. It also shows you where future improvements can be had and where the your current system's shortfalls are.

So next time a guy sells you thousand dollar cables you can show it is BS, and after you upgrade speakers you can show, wow that matters, and after installing a big name expensive amp... well lets not go there smile.gif
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post #5 of 15 Old 02-27-2013, 09:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the replies, everyone.

What I'm taking away from this is that even if I run Audyssey XT, measuring with REW will identify sonic problems that can be corrected through my AVR or minor speaker placement changes. Is that correct? Does correcting the problems REW identifies cause a big change in SQ (I assume this is relative to my room)?

I also like the idea of REW pointing to where improvements can be made in the future. Thanks for pointing that out!
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post #6 of 15 Old 02-27-2013, 01:41 PM
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Well, REW isn't going to pop up a dialog box which says "move your speakers two more inches away from the wall", but yes.

It takes some time and patience, some trial and error, but hopefully moving along in an educated guess sort of fashion. Optimizing your crossover range will be one of your early improvements. Plus seeing the nulls in your room. Once you have the nulls and peeks identified, you can experiment with moving the mic around to possible MLP placement options or moving the speakers a bit to see what that changes. A Room mode calculator can give you some idea about placement too. Anything you can do to get that FR smoother and flatter will improve the sound. But if you can't see the FR we're just kind of throwing money at it without really knowing.

Looking back on the kinds of investments I made blindly before I made the REW leap scares the crap out of me now.
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post #7 of 15 Old 02-27-2013, 03:41 PM
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Yes, definitely get an acoustic measurement package. Either REW or one of the easier to use, all in one box types ones like XTZ or OmniMic.

At the very least you will be able to test each of the 4 sub positions and see which one is the flattest. You will also be able to properly integrate the sub with your mains. Here's an article I did on using XTZ to set up your home theater in terms of speaker distances, levels and subwoofer integration.

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post #8 of 15 Old 02-27-2013, 08:23 PM - Thread Starter
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So, do you typically run Audyssey first then adjust speaker placement and trim with REW, or just use only REW? I haven't run Audyssey yet on my new receiver, so I'm not sure how it compares/constrasts to REW.

Thanks for all you help!
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post #9 of 15 Old 02-27-2013, 08:57 PM
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You should run REW before and after Audyssey. Listen to what it is doing and compare it to the two measurements and see if you can correlate the two. You will for example notice less bass after running Audyssey. That would be reflected in flatter low frequency response in REW.

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post #10 of 15 Old 02-27-2013, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jobio View Post

So, do you typically run Audyssey first then adjust speaker placement and trim with REW, or just use only REW? I haven't run Audyssey yet on my new receiver, so I'm not sure how it compares/constrasts to REW.

Thanks for all you help!

hmmm, there may be some confusion here. REW provides a lot of features and it can even suggest EQ filters for you, however it does not do EQ. It can be hooked into some of the parametric EQ gadgets out there and send filters to them. Behringer and minidsp are the two that come to my mind. I have a minidsp for my subs but don't have it hooked up right now for my current configuration.

As far as order, most recommend you get everything as level and flat as possible then run audyssey. The one thing I do post audyssey as far as changes is tweak the crossover range (distance / delay settings). It's common to do post audyssey "audyssey on" and "audyssey off" graphs as well to understand what it is doing. Also, you can get a pure look at the audyssey filters by measuring the pre-amp outputs of your AVR too (basically you make an electronic loop between your AVR and puter).

REW is measurement gear, not EQ gear. but please don't EQ without measurement. Make since?

EDIT: also it has no "active" roll as a component in my system. aka it is not hooked up when I'm listening to tunes or watching a movie. I break it out, measure, tweak, measure, tweak, mea...ooops wifes home put it all away. Improve more another day. I enjoy doing it, learn a lot each session.
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post #11 of 15 Old 02-27-2013, 09:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dstew100 View Post

hmmm, there may be some confusion here. REW provides a lot of features and it can even suggest EQ filters for you, however it does not do EQ. It can be hooked into some of the parametric EQ gadgets out there and send filters to them. Behringer and minidsp are the two that come to my mind. I have a minidsp for my subs but don't have it hooked up right now for my current configuration.

As far as order, most recommend you get everything as level and flat as possible then run audyssey. The one thing I do post audyssey as far as changes is tweak the crossover range (distance / delay settings). It's common to do post audyssey "audyssey on" and "audyssey off" graphs as well to understand what it is doing. Also, you can get a pure look at the audyssey filters by measuring the pre-amp outputs of your AVR too (basically you make an electronic loop between your AVR and puter).

REW is measurement gear, not EQ gear. but please don't EQ without measurement. Make since?

EDIT: also it has no "active" roll as a component in my system. aka it is not hooked up when I'm listening to tunes or watching a movie. I break it out, measure, tweak, measure, tweak, mea...ooops wifes home put it all away. Improve more another day. I enjoy doing it, learn a lot each session.

Thanks for the reply, dstew.

My wording was wrong: I know REW is a measurement tool. What I wanted to ask was if I should run Audyssey first, then measure with REW, and finally manually adjust the settings again in the AVR based on the REW measurements, or manually adjust the AVR settings (no Audyssey) based on my REW measurements only. However it makes sense to me to get the frequency response as flat as I can before EQing with Audyssey. Thanks for the suggestion.

So much to learn...biggrin.gif
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post #12 of 15 Old 02-28-2013, 04:55 AM
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@Jobio

I jumped the gun there, wasn't sure if you understood that, but clearly you did. Sorry

I think if you do get going with REW you'll be glad you did and your system will sound better then ever.

Enjoy
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post #13 of 15 Old 02-28-2013, 02:32 PM
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And here is an awesome guide for setting REW up with a USB mic and HDMI, doesn't get easier than this.

AVR: DENON 2113ci
FL/R: Klipschorn
CC: Klipsch RC64ii
SUR: Polk LS F/X x 4
SUB: PSA XS15 x 4
DISP: Mitsubishi WD-73740
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post #14 of 15 Old 02-28-2013, 02:39 PM
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REW is one of the best and worse things I;ve ever done

On 1 hand I'm learning a lot, I see where the problems are in my setup and can maybe help find a way to fix them

On the other hand its shown me the problems in my system, and I know theres some thing I just won't be able to do anything about and it makes me sad frown.gif

EMP E55ti | EMP E56ci | Polk T15's for surround duty | Ultimax 15" Sub | Integra 40.2 | Rotel 976 | Panasonic 60ST60
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post #15 of 15 Old 02-28-2013, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shady195 View Post

REW is one of the best and worse things I;ve ever done

On 1 hand I'm learning a lot, I see where the problems are in my setup and can maybe help find a way to fix them

On the other hand its shown me the problems in my system, and I know theres some thing I just won't be able to do anything about and it makes me sad frown.gif

+1

AVR: DENON 2113ci
FL/R: Klipschorn
CC: Klipsch RC64ii
SUR: Polk LS F/X x 4
SUB: PSA XS15 x 4
DISP: Mitsubishi WD-73740
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