need help with seating position and bass - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 13 Old 03-17-2013, 12:44 AM - Thread Starter
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I currently have a room in the garage that I am using for my setup and for the life of me, I just can't get the bass to make an impact. In the poor diagram I provided, I am currently sitting opposite of the window. I have dual SVS subs with one in each corner. I am sitting about 3.5ft away from the rear wall. I have acoustic treatment placed through out the room treating the rear wall with floor to ceiling bass traps and the first reflection points. I also have some acoustic foam on the ceiling. All the speakers sound great and clear with no issues that I can think of, except for the bass. The room is made out basic sheet rock, nothing special. The front window is a standard bedroom size window. I don't have any bass traps in the front of the room. Should the seating area be on the wall where the window is or is my current location best? I have an onkyo 805 that I bought when it first came out which was quite a few years ago and I've wondered if the sub out is going out? Maybe a bad Y cable? Only reason to not believe those possibilites is that the subs produce a tone when I calibrate them using the Disney WOW disc and subs play loud, but dissapear during movies. I don't like to use Audyssey because I feel it only makes it worse so I calibrate using the manual equalizer which produces better results. I've played around with the crossover and nothing has helped. I listen at around -20-15 below reference if that means anything. Not sure what other info is needed for advice, but any ideas? layout.jpg 23k .jpg file
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post #2 of 13 Old 03-17-2013, 08:14 AM
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Just curious, have you tried the sub crawl? Also, your room is nearly a perfect square, could be you are sitting in the deadzone? How does it sound outside of the seating zone? What size subs are they? Might be worth trying Audyssey just to see if it makes a difference...


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post #3 of 13 Old 03-17-2013, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teckademic View Post

I just can't get the bass to make an impact. In the poor diagram I provided, I am currently sitting opposite of the window. I have dual SVS subs with one in each corner.

Your drawing shows where you sit, but not where the speakers are. So it's impossible to assess. I'm sure you'll benefit from more bass traps, but finding the best place to sit is key too. SVS subs are great, and having two in corners should be killer. I have only one in a corner and it shakes the entire house. Maybe this will help:

How to set up a room

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RealTraps - The acoustic treatment experts

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post #4 of 13 Old 03-17-2013, 12:55 PM
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Have you tried listening with audyssey DEQ enabled? It should be available even with audyssey off.
Flat LF response is not adequate, especially at lower listening levels. Google " equal-loudness contours".
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post #5 of 13 Old 03-17-2013, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by zheka View Post

Have you tried listening with audyssey DEQ enabled? It should be available even with audyssey off.
Flat LF response is not adequate, especially at lower listening levels. Google " equal-loudness contours".

There have been two reports recently in the Rythmik thread of Dynamic EQ causing problems. I think I am done with it.
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post #6 of 13 Old 03-17-2013, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by dstew100 View Post

There have been two reports recently in the Rythmik thread of Dynamic EQ causing problems. I think I am done with it.

The point is some kind of house curve with continuously rising response at low frequencies is needed. DEQ is just one way to have it done.
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post #7 of 13 Old 03-17-2013, 03:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Sry about not posting the speaker positions, but L+R are roughly 3ft in from the side wall and front wall. The center is on a shelf above the tv centered of the L+R speakers and the rears are roughly 5ft from where i sit in the corner in front of the bass trap. After playing around today, i may of found the problem, i calibrated using the receivers test tones this time which my settings were off by few dbs, but what was really off was the sub level. At nearly 10dbs off, the bass had returned with full force, so what am i missing here? The WOW disc said to calibrate the sub 3db hotter than the other channels and like i said, the test tones were plenty loud, but when it came to movies, the bass just wasn't there. Is my receiver inaccurate by setting the sub trim 10db louder and just never noticed any stress since i run dual subs?
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post #8 of 13 Old 03-17-2013, 03:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Any thoughts on the window placement? Would it best to sit along the window sided wall or opposite? Reflections are not a problem aince i have black out curtains
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post #9 of 13 Old 03-17-2013, 07:43 PM
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Use this program to approximate your room and then experiment with different listening position and sub placement options.

http://www.hunecke.de/en/calculators/loudspeakers.html

It can give you a rough idea of what different configurations will generally do.
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post #10 of 13 Old 03-19-2013, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teckademic View Post

..., the test tones were plenty loud, but when it came to movies, the bass just wasn't there. Is my receiver ...
While my Onk 707 is a bit newer, you may have the same processing options, specifically one that changes the preset level for the subwoofer depending on the expected LFE encoding level for different audio codecs. Dolbyu digital, in particular, needs a 10dB boost due to a corresponding 10dB reduciton in encoded volume level.

Just a thought...

Have fun,
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post #11 of 13 Old 03-19-2013, 10:26 AM
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Have you tried changing the polarity? Perhaps the signals are canceling each other out.

You should be able to get dust off the sheetrock! smile.gif


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Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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post #12 of 13 Old 03-19-2013, 10:10 PM
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Your subs volume are set too low if your calibration sets them 10db hot. You want to aim for 0.00 db on the sub after calibration, that gives you room to go hot or cool...
I measure one position and redo just the one until the receiver puts the sub at or close to zero... Then I do all listening positions..
I still haven't seen if you have done the sub crawl... It really is effective, and you may be sitting in a null.
If all else fails, get a mini dsp and umik-1 mic and use Rew to diagnose it...


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post #13 of 13 Old 03-20-2013, 05:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McStyvie View Post

Your subs volume are set too low if your calibration sets them 10db hot. You want to aim for 0.00 db on the sub after calibration, that gives you room to go hot or cool...
I measure one position and redo just the one until the receiver puts the sub at or close to zero... Then I do all listening positions..
I still haven't seen if you have done the sub crawl... It really is effective, and you may be sitting in a null.
If all else fails, get a mini dsp and umik-1 mic and use Rew to diagnose it...

are you referring to using audyssey? I don't like using audyssey because it never seems to calibrate my subs right. Although they always measure out at about -3, the bass just never sounds right so I prefer to manually EQ using a CD and an spl meter, which the cd does compensate for the inaccuracy of the spl meter. I haven't done the sub crawl, but I have no issues with bass and sounds even no matter where I sit. Like I said, I started calibrating with Disney WOW and when I play back their sub calibration, theres plenty of bass and the tone is loud, but when I watch a movie, the bass isn't loud and deep. Now, I went ahead and used the test tones from the receiver this time and while the other channels remained fairly the same, the sub level was 10db lower so I had turn up the gain on subs and now that deep impact bass is back and better than ever. So I'm not sure if the WOW disc is wrong or the receiver, but everything is back to normal and in the end, I guess is what really matters.
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