Flat response - Page 2 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #31 of 40 Old 03-19-2013, 07:36 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
arnyk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Grosse Pointe Woods, MI
Posts: 13,654
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 288 Post(s)
Liked: 997
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heinrich S View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk 
These speaker's have drivers that are about 50% SOTA in terms of linear travel. Really good subwoofer drivers this size have about twice the linear stroke and run $350 or more a piece. That's why SOTA subs often run over $2k .

Sorry those SPL calculations you posted, do they exclude room gain? If they are, it's pretty good I would think.

Yes they exclude room gain on the grounds that it is an estimate and a priori I don't know if there will be a gain or a loss.
Quote:
Are you saying the excursions on the drivers are not that good?

Its all about costs and benefits. They are no SOTA, but what are you paying?
Quote:
They do offer a 3"p-p 18" woofer on their more expensive offerings but I can't afford it. frown.gif

My point exactly. that 3" p-p driver probably has about 40 mm Xmax and is very close to being SOTA. 40 mm Xmax is very very good for an 18" driver.
Quote:
Their stuff looks really well made and solid.

Good.
arnyk is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 40 Old 03-19-2013, 08:30 AM - Thread Starter
 
Heinrich S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 974
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk 
Its all about costs and benefits. They are no SOTA, but what are you paying?

Around $2k for the 18.0c.
Heinrich S is offline  
post #33 of 40 Old 03-19-2013, 08:41 AM
AVS Special Member
 
commsysman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 5,159
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Liked: 239
For an example of a very flat anechoic frequency response, see the measurements section of the Stereophile review of the Vandersteen Treo speakers from the March issue.

That is about as flat as it gets.

In the actual listening room test, however, the measured response was down in the lower midrange due to room loading. John Atkinson discusses this fact.

As for CHEAP, do you consider $6000 per pair cheap? Most people probably would not...lol (but I have ordered a pair anyway...). smile.gif
commsysman is offline  
post #34 of 40 Old 03-19-2013, 09:20 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
arnyk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Grosse Pointe Woods, MI
Posts: 13,654
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 288 Post(s)
Liked: 997
Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

For an example of a very flat anechoic frequency response, see the measurements section of the Stereophile review of the Vandersteen Treo speakers from the March issue.

That is about as flat as it gets.

In the actual listening room test, however, the measured response was down in the lower midrange due to room loading. John Atkinson discusses this fact.

As for CHEAP, do you consider $6000 per pair cheap? Most people probably would not...lol (but I have ordered a pair anyway...). smile.gif

Compare:



(Primus 360)

to



(Vandersteen Treo)

from say 200 Hz to 13 Khz, which is far more audible and important than outside that range.

Add a good sub to the first speaker which can easily best the second speaker in terms of clean bass extension.

It is all about costs and benefits!
arnyk is offline  
post #35 of 40 Old 03-19-2013, 09:23 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
arnyk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Grosse Pointe Woods, MI
Posts: 13,654
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 288 Post(s)
Liked: 997
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heinrich S View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk 
Its all about costs and benefits. They are no SOTA, but what are you paying?

Around $2k for the 18.0c.

In Euros?
arnyk is offline  
post #36 of 40 Old 03-19-2013, 09:25 AM
AVS Special Member
 
commsysman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 5,159
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Liked: 239
If you look at the frequency content of musical instruments and the human voice, there is virtually NOTHING above 5 KHZ except for brushed cymbals.

In addition, few mature adult males hear much above 10 Khz anyway...lol.

I participated in a test at an audio show many years ago where people listened to the same sample of music 3 times. One had full-range sound, the second had been filtered to eliminate sound above 8 KHZ, and the 3rd had nothing above 6 KHZ.

90% of the listeners heard no difference whatsoever, and this was in a very quiet listening room using very high-quality electronics and speakers.



Quote:
Originally Posted by kraut View Post

There is fairly little content in music above 15 kHz. But lack of bass is much more perceptible.
The response should be at least to a clean 50Hz, for kickdrum, and any kind of stringed bass instrument.

I run a pair of heresies with single sub support (diy compound loaded), crossed over at 80Hz and achieve a well integrated response down to below 20 Hz.
I previously had used DIY satellite speakers (the size of book shelve speakers in d'Appolito)) with a similar setup very effectively, but prefer the Heresy sound.

Even very few floorstanders reach down clean to 20Hz.
commsysman is offline  
post #37 of 40 Old 03-19-2013, 09:57 AM - Thread Starter
 
Heinrich S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 974
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk 
In Euros?

US dollars. smile.gif
Heinrich S is offline  
post #38 of 40 Old 03-20-2013, 01:04 AM - Thread Starter
 
Heinrich S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 974
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 29
Arnyk, you never told me what SOTA is. confused.gif Also, how did you calculate those SPL figures on page 1?
Heinrich S is offline  
post #39 of 40 Old 03-20-2013, 02:54 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Nightlord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Southern Sweden
Posts: 1,324
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 41 Post(s)
Liked: 83
SOTA = State Of The Art

Under construction: the Larch theater
Nightlord is offline  
post #40 of 40 Old 03-20-2013, 03:28 AM - Thread Starter
 
Heinrich S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 974
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 29
Thanks Nightlord. Makes sense now. smile.gif
Heinrich S is offline  
Reply Audio theory, Setup and Chat

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off