Power protection - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-20-2013, 07:39 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
wt61443's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 43
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Hello everyone. Just joined and 1st thread, so be gentle lol. I did search and I do realize there are tons of opinions on the topic. I would say I have good overall knowlege on A/V equipment, but need some help. I am collecting equipment as we speak for my upcoming house build. I will have a great room system (main TV viewing area) and a dedicated HT room. In my great room system, I will have the following equipment:

Sony 52 inch LCD W-Series (older model-2007ish)
Denon 3808CI (just powering the great room in 7.2)
3 Niles SI-1260's (powering the ceiling/outdoor speakers throughout the entire house)
Polk SWA500 sub amp (running 2 CSW100's in-floor subs)
PS3
Karaoke Player (RSQ NE0-500)
Sat. Box

Lets just assume I WILL be using power protection gear (so I don't really need to get into why I DON'T need it)

I have purchased a Panamax M4300-PM for the great room system. It is rated for 15 amps. It is my understanding that if you connect more than the 15 amps it will trip, correct? Well, each Niles 1260 (again, I have 3) has a max. amp rating of 13 (so if this is correct and at full power of everything, I would be waaaaaay over its rating). It is my plans to connect everything listed above, except the 3 Niles 1260's to the Panamax. I would then connect each Niles too its own lower budget suppressor. Is this overkill? I say that because most I have viewed are rated at 15 amps. If you need anymore info, just let me know. Thanks for all the help and suggestions! I will get into my HT setup at a later time. wink.gif
wt61443 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 03-21-2013, 12:58 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Nyal Mellor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: SF Bay Area, California, USA
Posts: 1,072
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 105 Post(s)
Liked: 93
If your power amps can draw that much continuous current then you will need multiple electrical circuits. A standard Romex run is only 15 or 20A rated.

Acoustic Frontiers: design and creation of high performance listening rooms, home theaters and project studios for discerning audio/video enthusiasts.
Nyal Mellor is offline  
Old 03-21-2013, 12:59 PM
AVS Special Member
 
fbov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bushnell's Basin, NY
Posts: 1,128
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Liked: 48
First question is what's the circuit current rating? A 15A unit on a 15A line is a good fit. Clearly, more than one 13A loads on a 15A line is a bad idea, regardless the power protection unit. Assuming your household wiring suports the loads, your plan makes sense.

I will note that I can't find any documentation on the Niles units' current draw... 13A seems excessive for a 160W amp!

Have ufn,
Frank
fbov is offline  
Old 03-21-2013, 01:15 PM
AVS Special Member
 
whoaru99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 6,960
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 67
The Niles amps mentioned are each 60wpc x 12 channels. So, 13A is plausible if all channels were simultaneously running WFO in a sine wave test. Of course, with music, even if running the amp at the verge of clipping average power consumption will be much less.

Just because there is a knob doesn't mean you should turn it.
whoaru99 is offline  
Old 03-21-2013, 01:16 PM
AVS Special Member
 
whoaru99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 6,960
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 67
If your point is surge protection then I suggest a whole house unit that goes in the main panel board or into the power meter socket.

Just because there is a knob doesn't mean you should turn it.
whoaru99 is offline  
Old 03-21-2013, 04:57 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
wt61443's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 43
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by fbov View Post

First question is what's the circuit current rating? A 15A unit on a 15A line is a good fit. Clearly, more than one 13A loads on a 15A line is a bad idea, regardless the power protection unit. Assuming your household wiring suports the loads, your plan makes sense.

I will note that I can't find any documentation on the Niles units' current draw... 13A seems excessive for a 160W amp!

Have ufn,
Frank

yes, as whoar mentioned, each niles amp is rated at 60X12, running at 8ohms, they are 720 watt amps. I will def. need to get with the electrician and explain my equipment and workloads (which I have not yet). I obviously want everything to work safely and properly. Thanks for all the replies so far.
wt61443 is offline  
Old 03-21-2013, 04:58 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
wt61443's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 43
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoaru99 View Post

If your point is surge protection then I suggest a whole house unit that goes in the main panel board or into the power meter socket.

This kinda stuff is all new to me, do you have any suggestions on companies or brands? thanks.
wt61443 is offline  
Old 03-21-2013, 07:32 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Nyal Mellor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: SF Bay Area, California, USA
Posts: 1,072
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 105 Post(s)
Liked: 93
Your electrician will probably have a favored brand. Cutler Hammer, Leviton, Environmental Potentials and many other are some of the standard whole house units you will find. There are many differences between the units so it depends what you are looking for. Personally I think a two tier approach to surge protection is best, using both a whole house device and a point of use conditioner. I would always start with the panel mount whole house devices though.

Acoustic Frontiers: design and creation of high performance listening rooms, home theaters and project studios for discerning audio/video enthusiasts.
Nyal Mellor is offline  
Old 03-21-2013, 07:52 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
wt61443's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 43
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyal Mellor View Post

Your electrician will probably have a favored brand. Cutler Hammer, Leviton, Environmental Potentials and many other are some of the standard whole house units you will find. There are many differences between the units so it depends what you are looking for. Personally I think a two tier approach to surge protection is best, using both a whole house device and a point of use conditioner. I would always start with the panel mount whole house devices though.

ok, I will get with him soon to discuss. thanks so much.
wt61443 is offline  
Old 03-21-2013, 09:30 PM
AVS Special Member
 
whoaru99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 6,960
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 67
I agree in general except to add that some things, maybe many, have surge protection built-in so the additional second level may already be inherent the device.

For example, the mfg of my previous processor recommended plugging the unit directly into the wall claiming there was already effective protection built in.

Just because there is a knob doesn't mean you should turn it.
whoaru99 is offline  
Old 03-22-2013, 10:50 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Nyal Mellor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: SF Bay Area, California, USA
Posts: 1,072
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 105 Post(s)
Liked: 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoaru99 View Post

I agree in general except to add that some things, maybe many, have surge protection built-in so the additional second level may already be inherent the device.

For example, the mfg of my previous processor recommended plugging the unit directly into the wall claiming there was already effective protection built in.

Typically these devices are MOV based and whilst it is true that some components have inbuilt 'surge' protection this can on occasion do more harm than good. A situation can arise where the MOV in one unit clamps to ground before another, and the surge is diverted to ground but finds it's way over a ground in a signal cable to another component. If all devices are plugged into the same surge protective device that won't happen.

Acoustic Frontiers: design and creation of high performance listening rooms, home theaters and project studios for discerning audio/video enthusiasts.
Nyal Mellor is offline  
Old 03-28-2013, 01:35 PM
AVS Special Member
 
fbov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bushnell's Basin, NY
Posts: 1,128
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Liked: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyal Mellor View Post

Your electrician will probably have a favored brand. Cutler Hammer, Leviton, Environmental Potentials and many other are some of the standard whole house units you will find. There are many differences between the units so it depends what you are looking for. Personally I think a two tier approach to surge protection is best, using both a whole house device and a point of use conditioner. I would always start with the panel mount whole house devices though.
Ironically, Ask This Old House covered the topic this week, with exactly this recommendation:
- standard whole house unit to protect from line fluctuations
- point-of-use units to protect internally generated spikes, as from equipment failure.

Seems like sound advice.

HAve fun,
Frank
fbov is offline  
Old 03-29-2013, 10:18 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Nyal Mellor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: SF Bay Area, California, USA
Posts: 1,072
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 105 Post(s)
Liked: 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by fbov View Post

Ironically, Ask This Old House covered the topic this week, with exactly this recommendation:
- standard whole house unit to protect from line fluctuations
- point-of-use units to protect internally generated spikes, as from equipment failure.

Seems like sound advice.

HAve fun,
Frank

Yep that's accepted practice for surge protection.

Acoustic Frontiers: design and creation of high performance listening rooms, home theaters and project studios for discerning audio/video enthusiasts.
Nyal Mellor is offline  
Old 03-29-2013, 10:50 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Glimmie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 8,018
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 182 Post(s)
Liked: 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoaru99 View Post

The Niles amps mentioned are each 60wpc x 12 channels. So, 13A is plausible if all channels were simultaneously running WFO in a sine wave test. Of course, with music, even if running the amp at the verge of clipping average power consumption will be much less.

Yes that works out. Just a note for everyone, you need to DOUBLE the audio RMS output to get the maximum AC power watts drawn. Class B amplifiers which are the major majority of audio amps are roughly 50% efficient. So they take twice the AC input power watts for every watt they output as audio.

Glimmie's HT Page
Being redone - comming soon!

Glimmie is offline  
 
Thread Tools


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off