Crossover Frequency - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 10 Old 03-21-2013, 05:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Just a quick question which I'm sure you have heard 1000 times.

My front speakers frequency response is 43-22,000hz. My subwoofer is 29-140hz. Calibration tools reccommend 60 to 80hz for crossover frequency. Why would I not just set the crossover frequency to 43hz for the speakers? surley you would be losing some sound from the speakers if you set it to 60hz? Also setting the crossover to 60, does that mean anything above 60hz from the subwoofer is rendered obsolete?

Sorry for the ignorant question, just curious to know peoples opinions

thanks
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post #2 of 10 Old 03-21-2013, 05:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mumflaps View Post

Just a quick question which I'm sure you have heard 1000 times.

My front speakers frequency response is 43-22,000hz. My subwoofer is 29-140hz. Calibration tools reccommend 60 to 80hz for crossover frequency. Why would I not just set the crossover frequency to 43hz for the speakers? surely you would be losing some sound from the speakers if you set it to 60hz? Also setting the crossover to 60, does that mean anything above 60hz from the subwoofer is rendered obsolete?

Typically so-called full range speakers are suboptimal as producers of loud clean bass when we get significantly below 100 Hz.

In theory it is possible to produce a speaker that is flat to 20 Hz, but whose clean output at 20 Hz is so weak that it is below the threshold of hearing. Some speakers I have evaluated come close. Advertised low frequency range numbers for speakers are often just marketing tools, and not reliable indicators of actual capabilities that you want to try to exploit.

Unless you have some pretty heroic left and right front speakers, they will probably sound cleaner the higher you set their bass crossover within reason, subject to problems with low frequency imaging. IOW if you set the bass crossover too high, you will start noticing sound being radiated from the subwoofer, which is usually a problem. This problem can be minimized by placing the subwoofer equidistant between the front L & R speakers and on a line drawn between them.

Most AVRs treat subwoofers like they are LFE speakers which may result in audio above the bass crossover frequency also being sent to the subwoofer.
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post #3 of 10 Old 03-21-2013, 06:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

Typically so-called full range speakers are suboptimal as producers of loud clean bass
when we get significantly below 100 Hz.

In theory it is possible to produce a speaker that is flat to 20 Hz, but whose clean output at 20 Hz is so weak that it is below the threshold of hearing. Some speakers I have evaluated come close. Advertised low frequency range numbers for speakers are often just marketing tools, and not reliable indicators of actual capabilities that you want to try to exploit.

Unless you have some pretty heroic left and right front speakers, they will probably sound cleaner the higher you set their bass crossover within reason, subject to problems with low frequency imaging. IOW if you set the bass crossover too high, you will start noticing sound being radiated from the subwoofer, which is usually a problem. This problem can be minimized by placing the subwoofer equidistant between the front L & R speakers and on a line drawn between them.

Most AVRs treat subwoofers like they are LFE speakers which may result in audio above the bass crossover frequency also being sent to the subwoofer.

Thanks for the response. My speakers are Dali 5's. Ill leave crossover at around 60 then. Or ill let the amp calibration take care of it. It uses adyssy which I believe is quite good
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post #4 of 10 Old 03-22-2013, 02:25 PM
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Keep in mind what a manufacturer claims as a response for a speaker totally changes in the bass region once you put it into a room. Same for the sub. If you want proper integration between the two, measuring the response running both is the only way to know.

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post #5 of 10 Old 03-24-2013, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mumflaps View Post

Just a quick question which I'm sure you have heard 1000 times.

My front speakers frequency response is 43-22,000hz. My subwoofer is 29-140hz. Calibration tools reccommend 60 to 80hz for crossover frequency. Why would I not just set the crossover frequency to 43hz for the speakers? surley you would be losing some sound from the speakers if you set it to 60hz? Also setting the crossover to 60, does that mean anything above 60hz from the subwoofer is rendered obsolete?

Sorry for the ignorant question, just curious to know peoples opinions

thanks

The acceptable range for your xo is :

Mains 43-2200

sub 29-140

xo range 43-140

As mentioned in another post don't trust the stated spec and use a xo 10-15 Hz higher. Also don't go above 100 Hz to keep the sub from being able to be located. Small satellite system have to use xo's over 120 to 150 hz.

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post #6 of 10 Old 03-25-2013, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mumflaps View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

Typically so-called full range speakers are suboptimal as producers of loud clean bass
when we get significantly below 100 Hz.

In theory it is possible to produce a speaker that is flat to 20 Hz, but whose clean output at 20 Hz is so weak that it is below the threshold of hearing. Some speakers I have evaluated come close. Advertised low frequency range numbers for speakers are often just marketing tools, and not reliable indicators of actual capabilities that you want to try to exploit.

Unless you have some pretty heroic left and right front speakers, they will probably sound cleaner the higher you set their bass crossover within reason, subject to problems with low frequency imaging. IOW if you set the bass crossover too high, you will start noticing sound being radiated from the subwoofer, which is usually a problem. This problem can be minimized by placing the subwoofer equidistant between the front L & R speakers and on a line drawn between them.

Most AVRs treat subwoofers like they are LFE speakers which may result in audio above the bass crossover frequency also being sent to the subwoofer.

Thanks for the response. My speakers are Dali 5's. Ill leave crossover at around 60 then. Or ill let the amp calibration take care of it. It uses adyssy which I believe is quite good

There are at least 2 speakers that fit the description "Dali 5s" - either the Xensor or Ikons. But from a LF viewpoint they seem similar.

With 2 5" woofers, they might be OK down to 60 or 80.

My optimistic model says:

Freq,Hz Max SPL, DB

10 68
20 80
30 87
40 92
50 96
60 99
70 102
80 104
90 106
100 108
110 110
120 111
130 113
140 114
150 115
160 116

Crossovers as high as 110 Hz may be in order if you want lots of dynamic range.
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post #7 of 10 Old 03-25-2013, 03:35 PM
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Just bare in mind that crossing over surrounds at 110Hz can mean that some sounds which can be localised will come from the 'wrong' location if your sub is at the front of the room. Of course it might be hard to tell (though I've found that turning OFF the sub while you play scenes with plenty of surround action while trying different crossover settings can help identify if this is a problem in your room/set up). If your surrounds can't go much below 110Hz then it's a moot point anyway. Having just replaced my small side surrounds (120Hz bottom end) with some with a better bass response has really improved my set up as there is more 'weight' to the surround effect (things like ambience are rendered much more naturally).

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post #8 of 10 Old 09-05-2013, 03:54 PM
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Hello guys
Still on sub-woofer crossover frequencies, I'm torn on which setting to use between the receiver and the sub itself. My sub has a cross-over frequency dial but I'm also able to adjust that parameter via my menu on the Yamaha RX-v2065. My main question however is "If I set my c-o frequency on the receiver at 80Hz, does it necessarily need to be set at a similar value on the sub ? Or if I set 80Hz on the receiver, what's the effect of cranking my sub-woofer dial 180Hz +
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post #9 of 10 Old 09-05-2013, 05:09 PM
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The usual advice is to set the sub's crossover as high as possible, or just turn it off, and let the receiver's crossover handle it. Some subs have a separate "LFE" input that bypasses the crossover. Doubling up on crossovers can cause various issues. The receiver's crossover will limit high frequencies from being sent to the sub; that's all you need.

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post #10 of 10 Old 09-05-2013, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RONSCHR View Post

Hello guys
Still on sub-woofer crossover frequencies, I'm torn on which setting to use between the receiver and the sub itself. My sub has a cross-over frequency dial but I'm also able to adjust that parameter via my menu on the Yamaha RX-v2065. My main question however is "If I set my c-o frequency on the receiver at 80Hz, does it necessarily need to be set at a similar value on the sub ? Or if I set 80Hz on the receiver, what's the effect of cranking my sub-woofer dial 180Hz +

Just to confirm what Don says, the usual protocol is to set any crossover or low pass filer on the subwoofer as high as possible.

Let's say that you set the low pass filter to the crossover frequency. This has the effect of adding an unnecessary filter to the signal flow which will upset the blending between the subwoofer and the other speakers. The expected result will be a hole in the resulting frequency response of your system.
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