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post #31 of 49 Old 04-07-2013, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OllieS View Post

He tells me he has a low pass filter set in his processor at 40 hz. I imagine this is for the sub. So low bass set to 40 hz and sub LPF set to 70 hz which is the minimum setting. This doesn't sound like a good set up method. Besides the LFE signal being thrown away would there be signal truncated above 40 hz because of the LFP in the processor set to 40 Hz (24 dB/octave)?

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post #32 of 49 Old 04-07-2013, 09:56 AM - Thread Starter
 
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mogorf, you have been very unhelpful in this thread.
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post #33 of 49 Old 04-07-2013, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OllieS View Post

He tells me he has a low pass filter set in his processor at 40 hz. I imagine this is for the sub. So low bass set to 40 hz and sub LPF set to 70 hz which is the minimum setting. This doesn't sound like a good set up method. Besides the LFE signal being thrown away above 70 Hz wouldn't there also be the signal truncated above 40 hz because of the LFP in the processor set to 40 Hz (24 dB/octave)?
Yes, it sounds like that's what's happening. Does your friend tell you what he thinks he's accomplishing with those settings?
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post #34 of 49 Old 04-07-2013, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OllieS View Post

He tells me he has a low pass filter set in his processor at 40 hz. I imagine this is for the sub. So low bass set to 40 hz and sub LPF set to 70 hz which is the minimum setting. This doesn't sound like a good set up method. Besides the LFE signal being thrown away above 70 Hz wouldn't there also be the signal truncated above 40 hz because of the LFP in the processor set to 40 Hz (24 dB/octave)?
You are not being clear at all. If all the speakers are set to LARGE, what low-pass in the AVR is being set to 40Hz? With all speakers set to LARGE, there is no low-pass filter to set.

If it is the 'LPF of LFE' that you are talking about, then this is VERY wrong. It would mean the LFE channel is being unnecessarily truncated at 40Hz. Meaning a 70Hz setting of the sub's own internal low-pass would be irrelevant if all the speakers are really set to LARGE as nothing above 40Hz would be reaching the sub, anyway with this setting.

But I am not even sure a 'LPF of LFE' can be set as low as 40Hz on any AVRs.
Get your story straight.

You're showing that you don't entirely understand bass management, too, btw.

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post #35 of 49 Old 04-07-2013, 10:22 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sivadselim 
You are not being clear at all. If all the speakers are set to LARGE, what low-pass in the AVR is being set to 40Hz? With all speakers set to LARGE, there is no low-pass filter to set.

Please don't shoot the messenger. I'll find out exactly what the settings are and get back to you. Please, I don't deserve to be unfairly treated. I have not been unkind to you.
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post #36 of 49 Old 04-07-2013, 10:45 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Well then piss off out of my thread! Who are you around here to treat me like this? You are not being PAID to help me. You don't have be here, so why stick around for no apparent reason?

Idiot.
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post #37 of 49 Old 04-07-2013, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OllieS View Post

I read your sig and I understand it, but it does not answer my questions. I asked if you had large main speakers with 10" or larger woofers, would setting speakers to small still be the best option?

Your first mistake is trying to use main speaker driver diameter as the be-all and end all. Speaker bass dynamic range is dependent on both speaker diameter and linear stroke.

Your second mistake is trying to make this discussion all about the main speaker. In fact this discussion depends on the comparison between the main speaker bass dynamic range and the subwoofer dynamic range.

Here's an example:

A 10 inch driver with 10 mm XMax has the following bass dynamic range:

Freq,Hz Max SPL, DB

10 77
20 89
30 96
40 101
50 105
60 108
70 110
80 113
90 115
100 117
110 118
120 120
130 121
140 122
150 124
160 125
170 126
180 127
190 128
200 129

An 18 inch driver with 30 mm Xmax has the following bass dynamic range:


Freq,Hz Max SPL, DB

10 96
20 108
30 115
40 120
50 124
60 128
70 130
80 133
90 135
100 136
110 138
120 140

Obviously, you want to cross the mains over to the at some fairly high frquency, or else your main speakers are major boat anchors as far as dynamic range goes.

Up the main speaker bass driver config to 3 10 inchers, and you obtain the following:

Max SPL, DB Freq,Hz

86 10
98 20
105 30
110 40
114 50
117 60
120 70
122 80
124 90
126 100
128 110
129 120
131 130
132 140
133 150
134 160
135 170
136 180
137 190

At this point crossing over in the 70-80 Hz range seems permissable.
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post #38 of 49 Old 04-07-2013, 02:00 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Okay, got some information from my friend : all speakers are set to Large but his processor allows him to set the low pass filter for the subwoofer. Which he tells me is set to 40 Hz.

He has a Rotel RSP-1068 processor. I looked at the manual but it says the subwoofer crossover (NOT the LFE) is only adjustable using Small settings. Huh? So I honestly don't know what he is talking about. The crossover can only be adjusted if speakers are set to Small. He is using a LPF on the subwoofer of 70hz ( out of max 140 Hz).

Very strange. I just want to see if I can help him improve his set up. I've already improved mine by setting speakers to small. I think I'll need to get an SPL meter next!
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post #39 of 49 Old 04-07-2013, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OllieS View Post

Okay, got some information from my friend : all speakers are set to Large but his processor allows him to set the low pass filter for the subwoofer. Which he tells me is set to 40 Hz.

He has a Rotel RSP-1068 processor. I looked at the manual but it says the subwoofer crossover (NOT the LFE) is only adjustable using Small settings. Huh? So I honestly don't know what he is talking about. The crossover can only be adjusted if speakers are set to Small. He is using a LPF on the subwoofer of 70hz ( out of max 140 Hz).

Very strange. I just want to see if I can help him improve his set up. I've already improved mine by setting speakers to small. I think I'll need to get an SPL meter next!

Yep, you are well on your way of helping him out.  Read the manual.  :-)

 

And increase the LPF on the sub itself to max, 140hz.

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post #40 of 49 Old 04-07-2013, 02:46 PM
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So, what does your friend suppose setting the LPF for LFE in the Rotel to 40Hz does?
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post #41 of 49 Old 04-07-2013, 03:15 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIslander 
So, what does your friend suppose setting the LPF for LFE in the Rotel to 40Hz does?

I think he was confused. If he selected a low pass filter of 40 Hz for the sub then, according to the manual, it means he selected a HIGH-PASS for the main speakers. Since he has selected 70 Hz LPF at the back of the subwoofer that means he will have two LPF's working together. From what I have gathered this is a very bad idea. I'll tell him to switch it to its maximum frequency.
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post #42 of 49 Old 04-07-2013, 04:08 PM
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Yep, put both values up to the top so that the sub plays whatever the processor sends it. Setting speakers to small is almost always a good idea, too.
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post #43 of 49 Old 04-08-2013, 05:06 AM
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post #44 of 49 Old 04-23-2013, 01:17 PM
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Hi All

I also have an question about this item

i run an pioneer sc lx 86 with 4 beolab 1 speakers , 39 - 20.000hz and an sub - Beolab 2 , 23-120hz..

I have set front and rear to Large,..crossover set to 50 hz..

what do you people think ?


Regards!!
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post #45 of 49 Old 04-23-2013, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by vincent-nl View Post

Hi All

I also have an question about this item

i run an pioneer sc lx 86 with 4 beolab 1 speakers , 39 - 20.000hz and an sub - Beolab 2 , 23-120hz..

I have set front and rear to Large,..crossover set to 50 hz..

what do you people think ?


Regards!!

I would set them to small and set the xover to 80hz. Your sub is far more capable of producing the low end than your speakers. Please don't take that the wrong way, as there are very, very few speakers where that recommendation wouldn't apply.
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post #46 of 49 Old 04-23-2013, 11:43 PM
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Hi

thanks i want to try that setting,...

i thought Big speakers, beginning at 39 hz,... zo set it to large...


Regards!!
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post #47 of 49 Old 04-27-2013, 06:01 AM
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A few questions to the experts here:

I have been following this thread with great interest, as I am certain I am an example of the "average guy" trying to optimize his HT system.

Q1) If all speakers should be set to "small", then in theory why would you need speakers with drivers larger than say 6"?
This information seems to point to the breakpoints in audio formats/speaker evolution. In the "stereo" days, the speakers handled all of the bass, and hence "larger" was better. But in SS modes, there seems to be no good reason for larger speakers.....

Q2) What happens in the AVR when you switch to "stereo mode"; do the speaker size settings still apply?
I ask this because I think many people get confused about speaker setting sizes when they switch back and forth between SP modes. To be honest, I am not sure what happens when I switch from say DD to stereo.

Thanks to all for the great educational information in this post.

Sometimes I have to remind myself that I bought all this "stuff" to enjoy it!
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post #48 of 49 Old 04-27-2013, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bizwiz41 View Post

A few questions to the experts here:

I have been following this thread with great interest, as I am certain I am an example of the "average guy" trying to optimize his HT system.

Q1) If all speakers should be set to "small", then in theory why would you need speakers with drivers larger than say 6"?
This information seems to point to the breakpoints in audio formats/speaker evolution. In the "stereo" days, the speakers handled all of the bass, and hence "larger" was better. But in SS modes, there seems to be no good reason for larger speakers.....

Q2) What happens in the AVR when you switch to "stereo mode"; do the speaker size settings still apply?
I ask this because I think many people get confused about speaker setting sizes when they switch back and forth between SP modes. To be honest, I am not sure what happens when I switch from say DD to stereo.

Thanks to all for the great educational information in this post.

Speakers now have smaller drivers for several reasons. Many people just don't want large speakers in their home and the availability of subwoofers in the home theater over the last 20 years has allowed this. Technically, speakers with larger drivers don't have to work as hard as a smaller speaker to produce sound even when a crossover is used with a subwoofer. That's why you need multiple 6'' drivers in todays towers to keep up with an older style speaker that has one 15'' driver. In the end with a proper calibration and room set up both sizes of speakers sound about the same. In the end if you really want SPL a speaker with larger drivers still has an advantage, even while playing with a subwoofer. So sometimes larger speakers are still beneficial in certain set ups depending on sound goals and room size.

When you switch to stereo mode the speaker size or crossover still applies. If you use a pure mode or direct mode bass management is bypassed.
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post #49 of 49 Old 04-27-2013, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Secret Squirrel View Post

Speakers now have smaller drivers for several reasons. Many people just don't want large speakers in their home and the availability of subwoofers in the home theater over the last 20 years has allowed this. Technically, speakers with larger drivers don't have to work as hard as a smaller speaker to produce sound even when a crossover is used with a subwoofer. That's why you need multiple 6'' drivers in todays towers to keep up with an older style speaker that has one 15'' driver. In the end with a proper calibration and room set up both sizes of speakers sound about the same. In the end if you really want SPL a speaker with larger drivers still has an advantage, even while playing with a subwoofer. So sometimes larger speakers are still beneficial in certain set ups depending on sound goals and room size.

When you switch to stereo mode the speaker size or crossover still applies. If you use a pure mode or direct mode bass management is bypassed.

Thank you for the reply and clarification. Sometimes this can be a bit confusing.

Sometimes I have to remind myself that I bought all this "stuff" to enjoy it!
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