Question about rear surround and surround speakers - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 14 Old 04-07-2013, 10:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Im trying to finish up my 7.1 setup. I scaled down my floor standing and center speaker purchase and went with the 75T Polks from Newegg and a 25C center channel. I have a klipsch RW-12d sub and a Yamaha RX-A810 receiver.

My living room is a decent size and you can see a shot of it here

LL

I have since replaced my TV with a 70" Vizio.

I plan to move the couch two-three feet closer to the TV. I originally was going to mount on the wall behind the couch but now I want to ceiling mount.

Here are my questions:

I found a good deal on a pair of clearance Speakercraft in ceiling speakers (6 1/2" round or rectangle). Can I make the rear surrounds in ceiling since the couch will be forward of the speaker location? My biggest fear is that I will know the sound is coming from the ceiling, is that something to worry about?

If using in ceiling is a possibility, do the surrounds need to be in ceiling too? Or can I get satellite speakers and mount them from the ceiling? I have been eyeballing the Polk TL3.

Or should everything be uniform? In ceiling for all four or satellite for all four?

Am i making a mistake mounting on the ceiling or using in ceiling speakers?

Should the rears be wall mounted midway between the couch and ceiling?



Thanks everyone. Any other general advice is much welcomed.

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post #2 of 14 Old 04-08-2013, 09:25 AM - Thread Starter
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im bumping this because I dont want someone to buy those speakers before I do.

Thanks guys

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post #3 of 14 Old 04-09-2013, 09:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Last try

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post #4 of 14 Old 04-09-2013, 09:41 AM
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I can't help with in ceiling speakers, but I have my surrounds very high up due to the room openings in one area. I've recently bought some better side surround speakers that properly match my front speakers, but budget didn't allow me to buy another pair for the surround back (£1,500 a pair eek.gif). I've just kept the little M&K K4 speakers that I had as side surrounds and despite them being a very poor match in timbre terms (and that they are tripole when the backs should ideally be monopole) they work perfectly well.

There isn't so much signal going through them for one and the timbre matching is less critical too. I'm aware that the sound is higher up, but oddly the new side surrounds seem to be able to place sounds right down on the floor beside me, so it does depend on the speakers.

Just for the hell of it here is a picture of the back of my room in case it helps:


Zooming: Been there, done that, bought the lens...
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post #5 of 14 Old 04-09-2013, 01:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the reply.

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post #6 of 14 Old 04-09-2013, 09:03 PM
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Good idea to move the couch 3 feet forward, since it will give you some side-vs-rear separation in the surround field. To keep the sound consistent, I would use 4 of the same Speakercraft in-ceiling model. To keep the 4 surround speakers from sounding like they're overhead, spread them away from the listening position.

The side speakers should be in line with couch, or even slightly forward (for better envelopment). Spread them out as far apart as symmetrically possible. Place the rear speakers as close to the back wall as you can, spread about 5-6 feet apart.

Rather than sounding like they're above you, they'll sound a little more like they are high up on the rear and side walls. Plus, the separation will give you left vs right vs back directionality in the surround field, rather than some overhead blob of surround information.

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post #7 of 14 Old 04-09-2013, 10:22 PM - Thread Starter
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In regards to the spacing of the rears, my couch is pretty big going across the back. It's probably 12-13 feet. Does that affect the 5-6 foot spacing?

Lastly can and should the in ceiling speakers be mounted on an angle towards the listening area? Or just straight down

Thanks

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post #8 of 14 Old 04-09-2013, 11:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by udt89 View Post

In regards to the spacing of the rears, my couch is pretty big going across the back. It's probably 12-13 feet. Does that affect the 5-6 foot spacing?
No. The rear speakers should be about 60-90 degrees apart (30-45 degrees from the centre line) as measured from the main listening position. The width of the couch has no bearing on that.
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Lastly can and should the in ceiling speakers be mounted on an angle towards the listening area?
Yes.

Sanjay
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post #9 of 14 Old 04-10-2013, 07:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Should I consider in wall speakers behind the couch at ear level as opposed to in ceiling?

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post #10 of 14 Old 04-10-2013, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by udt89 View Post

Should I consider in wall speakers behind the couch at ear level as opposed to in ceiling?
It will be awfully distracting for some of the listeners to have a speaker blasting into their ears from a couple feet away.

Sanjay
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post #11 of 14 Old 04-11-2013, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by udt89 View Post

Should I consider in wall speakers behind the couch at ear level as opposed to in ceiling?

Surround speakers should not be at ear level and directed directly at your ear. Rule of thumb. The tweeter on your side and rear surrounds should be at roughly ear level while standing. This would put the sound slightly above you when seating which is the way surrounds are designed to be setup. Your front three speakers are different. Those, you do want the tweeter as close to ear level when seated.

It is really hard to tell what is happening in your picture, but it looks like your couch is not centered on the TV and shifted? If it was me, I might just consider a 5.1 setup vs 7.1 if it is not ideal.

I think you have to use in-ceiling for the side surrounds. Don't think you have a choice there. For rears it would be challenging to use in-ceiling speakers unless you buy a specific style which are quite expensive. Like these:
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post #12 of 14 Old 04-11-2013, 06:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Yea my couch and tv is left of center.

I was going to do in ceiling for side surround and either in wall for rear or if I can score a deal on the def tech you posted go in ceiling with those.

If I go in wall for rears, do i put the left rear as far in the corner as possible?

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post #13 of 14 Old 04-12-2013, 09:16 AM - Thread Starter
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And what's proper height for in wall rears? About 6 feet off floor?

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post #14 of 14 Old 04-12-2013, 10:00 AM
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This visual from my Denon 4520CI manual, makes it easier to grasp all the 7.1/9.1/11.1 speaker layout, also 5.1 w/o the rears.
11.x%2520speaker%2520layout%2520via%2520Denon%2520Manual.JPG

Quote:
And what's proper height for in wall rears? About 6 feet off floor?
Properly designed should be same spec as on wall speakers, people go inwall for WAF or aestic visual....

Mike R,P.E. clickable DIY hot links:

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