Vinyl LP'S vs CD'S - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 75 Old 04-11-2013, 01:57 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
darrelsilva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 28
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
What is your opinion in the quality of music heard between a VINYL LP and CD . I would like to compare basic models - say in the range of $150-300 (not high end ones).
Just thiught of buying a basic Turnatable ........
Cheers
Darrel
darrelsilva is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 75 Old 04-11-2013, 02:13 PM
Senior Member
 
JSUL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 342
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 38
Just as each of us see 'color' differently, and thus have different settings on our HDTV's, I believe we all
may 'hear' differently too.

Having a huge vinyl collection....and my share of cd's, I can only say that IMOH, the vinyl analog sounds richer to me than the cd.

I can 'alter/change' the treble/bass to a much higher degree with vinyl, than the cd.
JSUL is offline  
post #3 of 75 Old 04-11-2013, 02:37 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
darrelsilva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 28
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thank you. Your opening para is quite true and i certainly agree w ith that.

On the subject matter- i like the way you explained in simple language so that i understand rather than a technical explanation.

I myself had a turnatable few years a go and i too felt they were "heard" better.

Can i ask you if these USB type turntables that can convert LP to CD (available fir around 100$ ) makes any difference compared to a traditional turntable of the same price range. (Sometimes the mission shop here sells old model turntables very cheap)
darrelsilva is offline  
post #4 of 75 Old 04-11-2013, 03:42 PM
AVS Special Member
 
MarkHotchkiss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Long Beach, California
Posts: 1,476
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 82
Hi Darrel,

My opinion: It's the guy pushing the knobs.

Translation: The mastering of some vinyl is better in some cases than the mastering of some CD's. I don't know why, but I know that it isn't a shortcoming in the technology of the CD.

Here is why I think so: I have about 200 vinyl albums from the 60's, 70's and 80's, and I've been copying them to digital. If I take my digital masters of the vinyl, and make a CD from them, I cannot hear a difference between the vinyl and the CD copy. Of course, that is not a very scientific test, so take it only as my opinion.


As far as turntables - my opinion is that the quality of the turntable has a big impact in the quality of the sound. It is, after all, a precision mechanical device. All of the USB tables I had looked at were pretty crummy. So I bought an old Sansui SR-838, which was very highly regarded in its day. The difficulty with shopping for vintage turntables, however, is knowing which are good and which are not.

Disclaimer: Everything stated in this post is just opinion - unusual for me.
MarkHotchkiss is offline  
post #5 of 75 Old 04-11-2013, 04:05 PM
AVS Special Member
 
lovinthehd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: OROR
Posts: 6,594
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 194 Post(s)
Liked: 779
I might add it may be what you're accustomed to, to an extent. I grew up with vinyl, have a large collection that dates back to my teens (would date back earlier but my mom & dad gave away my first collection when moving the household when I was 14). Even with good cleaning, care and good playback, vinyl does have issues (pops and clicks) but sometimes nostalgia or just being used to the way I've traditionally heard it makes vinyl sound just fine. Some of the engineering that went into vinyl recordings is better than what goes into pop music mp3 recording on cd's these days.

I listen to both vinyl and digital recordings, but having a manual turntable means I listen to about 15-20 minutes at a shot before I have to pay attention again whereas I can put Pandora on for hours while I occupy myself otherwise. If I'm just kicking back and listening to certain selections not a problem with a turntable, but to use my cd changer, my huge iTunes collection or Pandora streaming for hours at a time...just choices I make for what fits at the time.

I'd agree most of the USB turntables I've seen are pretty crappy. There are ways to digitize from better turntables, too.

My .02...

lovinthehd is online now  
post #6 of 75 Old 04-11-2013, 05:27 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
darrelsilva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 28
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thank you and it is so wonderful to get all these feedback. It helps me.

Mark:- this is for you.

Reading your reply it seems to me that you had converted LP's to CD and that there was no difference when done like that. How did you do the converting? Did you still use this "crappy" type USB ones or did you use other methods?

Loveinthehd- this is for you

I too had been using LP's since about 12 and i'm now 54. Thought of getting back to the old listening habits (at least once in a while because having to change the LP every now and then is a problem).

For Mark and Loveinhd
I have now decided to get a turntable back.

What will you suggest for converting LP's. USB type turntables or old turntable with audio out to PC with the use of software?
darrelsilva is offline  
post #7 of 75 Old 04-11-2013, 06:24 PM
Senior Member
 
kraut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 378
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 60
Quote:
the vinyl analog sounds richer to me than the cd.

Which it definitely is: richer in all kinds of distortion across the nth harmonics, richer in lower S/N ratio, richer in surface noise...whatever you can throw in, the LP is definitely richer. Just not in fidelity. That is not an opinion, this is fact supported by evidence.
kraut is offline  
post #8 of 75 Old 04-11-2013, 06:40 PM
AVS Special Member
 
lovinthehd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: OROR
Posts: 6,594
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 194 Post(s)
Liked: 779
Quote:
Originally Posted by darrelsilva View Post

Thank you and it is so wonderful to get all these feedback. It helps me.

Mark:- this is for you.

Reading your reply it seems to me that you had converted LP's to CD and that there was no difference when done like that. How did you do the converting? Did you still use this "crappy" type USB ones or did you use other methods?

Loveinthehd- this is for you

I too had been using LP's since about 12 and i'm now 54. Thought of getting back to the old listening habits (at least once in a while because having to change the LP every now and then is a problem).

For Mark and Loveinhd
I have now decided to get a turntable back.

What will you suggest for converting LP's. USB type turntables or old turntable with audio out to PC with the use of software?

Something like this http://www.amazon.com/ART-USB-Phono-Plus/dp/B000BBGCCI

I'm just a bit older than you btw.

You might check out vinylengine.com. too.

lovinthehd is online now  
post #9 of 75 Old 04-11-2013, 06:51 PM
Senior Member
 
JSUL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 342
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 38
Can't provide you an answer, as I do not have a USB type turntable.

Read other posters here that may provide a better insight You can spend hundreds of dollars on turntables....but also take note of the stylus being used. A turntable and good matching stylus will provide many hours of enjoyment.
JSUL is offline  
post #10 of 75 Old 04-11-2013, 07:00 PM
AVS Special Member
 
lovinthehd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: OROR
Posts: 6,594
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 194 Post(s)
Liked: 779
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSUL View Post

Can't provide you an answer, as I do not have a USB type turntable.

Read other posters here that may provide a better insight You can spend hundreds of dollars on turntables....but also take note of the stylus being used. A turntable and good matching stylus will provide many hours of enjoyment.

Not stylus particularly, it's the cartridge (and its stylus) that is important. Now if you buy a used turntable/cartridge then maybe think about replacing just the stylus. IMHO you need to budget at least several hundred dollars for the turntable and at least another $100 on the cartridge. My old workhorse Technics SL1200MkII looks like it will set you back 1200 plus cartridge these days (I didn't pay anywhere near that new many many years ago smile.gif ).

lovinthehd is online now  
post #11 of 75 Old 04-11-2013, 07:05 PM
Senior Member
 
JSUL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 342
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 38
Not sure I can fully agree with you....but again, it's how it sounds to each person.

I can say that 'pops' are simply the result of dirt in the record grooves. If you took care of your vinyl, were careful not to scratch them, no fingerprints, etc. and played with a good needle, then you will get wonderful sound reproduction, based also on the amplifier/speaker set up.

I am 61 years old and have almost 100% of every LP and 45 I bought, from the age of 6.

I can play you some Elvis, Little Richard, Rick Nelson records from the 50's and 60's that will stun you.

They called it High Fidelity for a reason.

The so called 'pop/noise' is due to neglect...not a fault of the recording equipment.
JSUL is offline  
post #12 of 75 Old 04-11-2013, 07:16 PM
AVS Special Member
 
lovinthehd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: OROR
Posts: 6,594
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 194 Post(s)
Liked: 779
Now you devolve and call it a needle? The right cartridge/stylus/tonearm does have a lot to do with preserving your vinyl in the long run. I might disagree with you on any reason to play Elvis, Little Richard or Rick Nelson, though smile.gif....well maybe some Elvis and a few Little Richard cuts but Rick Nelson? Yes, records get dirty, another disadvantage over digital/laser discs (altho the laser type discs aren't nearly as indestructible as they were originally marketed). They called it high fidelity because it was an improvement over victrolas, not because vinyl is particularly high fidelity. Record cleaning is a pain, and when you lived with as many roommates as I did over the years your records didn't always stay pristine unfortunately smile.gif Also, some vinyl was poorly pressed and came with pops/noise inherent.

lovinthehd is online now  
post #13 of 75 Old 04-11-2013, 07:21 PM
AVS Special Member
 
David Susilo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Markham, Canada
Posts: 9,599
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 289 Post(s)
Liked: 410
Quote:
Originally Posted by kraut View Post

Which it definitely is: richer in all kinds of distortion across the nth harmonics, richer in lower S/N ratio, richer in surface noise...whatever you can throw in, the LP is definitely richer. Just not in fidelity. That is not an opinion, this is fact supported by evidence.

Not only that. Newer albums such as Diana Krall, Rod Stewart, Casiopea, and essentially any vinyl produced in the past 10 years or so were recorded, mixed, and mastered in digital. So why bother buying new vinyl to listen to "analog" recording when everything in the production chain is digital? It's an oxymoron.

As far as analog mastered vinyl? yes I prefer them. I'm fully aware that they are filled with distortion, wow, flutter etc, but I prefer them.

follow my A/V tweets @davidsusilo

ISF, THX, CEDIA, Control4 & HAA certified
Reviewer for TED, QAV, AUVI & DownUnder Audio Magazine


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

David Susilo is offline  
post #14 of 75 Old 04-11-2013, 07:32 PM
AVS Special Member
 
MarkHotchkiss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Long Beach, California
Posts: 1,476
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 82
Hi Darrel,

You should probably sit-down for this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by darrelsilva View Post

. . . How did you do the converting?
The hardware was relatively simple for me, as I had a good vintage stereo system to start with. The key ingredients were the Sansui SR-838 turntable and a Sansui CA-2000 preamplifier.

The preamplifier has inputs for two turntables, and also has inputs and outputs for two tape-decks. Since the preamp has good support for turntables, I didn't need an external phono-preamp. Now, remember how stereos back in the cassette / reel-to-reel days supported tape-decks? They allowed you to record anything you happen to be listening to, and you had the choice of monitoring what was going into the tape-deck or what was coming out. I simply hooked up a computer to the tape input/outputs of the preamp as if the computer was a tape-deck.

In the computer, I installed an E-MU 0404 audio card. I used the PCI version, but they also have a USB version that I have not tried. The software allows me to digitally record and playback as if the computer was a tape-deck.

I use a free recording software called Kristal Audio Engine to do the initial recording. It supports recording at 24-bits and 192kHz, but I usually use 96kHz. I record at a higher resolution than the final output so that I have headroom to do post-processing, like removing pops and scratches. I save my masters as FLAC files, either 24-bit/96kHz or 24-bit/192kHz (CD's are 16-bit/44.1kHz).

If I do post-processing, I use Audacity. It is also free, and is also the software the comes with most of the USB turntables on the market. If you don't wish to record at 192kHz, you can do everything with Audacity and forgo Kristal. Beside functions that allow you to remove clicks and pops, Audacity also allows you to normalize the volume, and to output the final product with different formats and resolutions. My final output is one hi-res FLAC file and one 320kbps MP3 file per record side. I use both FLAC and MP3 in order to support all of my different media players.

If I want to be able to access individual songs on a side, or to burn the file to CD, I use a program called CD-Wave to create a CUE file. I used to make CD's for the car, but my current car stereo can read MP3 files from USB-flash-drive, so I don't use CD's at all anymore.

I hope that doesn't sound overly complicated. I don't mean to scare you away, but it can get quite tedious if you try to do a lot at one time.
MarkHotchkiss is offline  
post #15 of 75 Old 04-11-2013, 07:44 PM
Senior Member
 
JSUL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 342
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 38
Lovinthehd, please excuse me as my comments were in response to kraut....and I simply think we can all agree to disagree on things.

I guess I was fortunate to never purchase an LP or 45
with inherent pops/surface noise....now in many 78's
that may be true.

I was indeed fortunate to become friends with several DJ's that worked at KFJZ in Fort Worth, Tx back in the day. during which I never heard a single record played on the radio or during my visits to the station, with any pops/noise.

Is digital an improvement? Likely so, but it does seem strange that vinyl has made a comeback of sorts....perhaps simply a nostalgic trip to the past.
JSUL is offline  
post #16 of 75 Old 04-11-2013, 07:56 PM
Senior Member
 
kraut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 378
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 60
Quote:
Not sure I can fully agree with you....but again, it's how it sounds to each person

You will find it hard to argue with evidence.The sound of an LP might sound better to you the same way tube amps sound better to some who like euphonious distortion.
I have no problem if you prefer that sound - that is something you have to deal with.
Quote:
They called it High Fidelity for a reason.

The so called 'pop/noise' is due to neglect...not a fault of the recording equipment.

Wrong, I have had countless brand new records that right out of the sleeve were noisy, especially classical albums. Has nothing to do with the recording equipment, it has to do with inherent flaws of the vinyl itself and the pressing process.
If you consider a boombox a reproducer of high fidelity sound, then I will agree with you that the LP is a medium of high fideliy storage - ot you just do not know what high fidelity means.



This is a 5kHz fundamental played back on a Thorens TD 125, SME 3 tonearm and a Denon DL 103 cartridge, playing back a signal from a test record produced by Flloyd Toole




This is a 1 kHz signal
And this a 11 kHz signal



You really want to call that High Fidelity? What is your standard?

I own over 2000 records, some are now over 40 years old, a bit older than the record player I own since 1971, a Transcriptors Hydraulic Reference by Mitchell. I play back records, but I am simply pissed off when someone tries to tell me that objectively LP has any kind of sonic benefits.
No, it does not, it might sound better to you, but so will a Harley that still under performs compared to any properly engineered bike.
kraut is offline  
post #17 of 75 Old 04-11-2013, 09:33 PM
Senior Member
 
JSUL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 342
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 38
As I said earlier, I am fortunate not to have purchased defective vinyl.....and yes, you have provided proof of the greatness of digital vs analog.....not an issue for me, but in the big scheme of things, let us enjoy the recordings and go from there.

There are many recordings on vinyl that will never become available on cd's.....just like there are many motion pictures that will never see a dvd or bluray....enjoy what we have, life is too short.
JSUL is offline  
post #18 of 75 Old 04-11-2013, 09:40 PM
Senior Member
 
JSUL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 342
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 38
Darrell:
Am sorry if my comments got us off track of your needs.....there are great folks on this thread that have/will provide guidance.

Enjoy and good luck to you.
JSUL is offline  
post #19 of 75 Old 04-11-2013, 10:10 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
darrelsilva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 28
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
JSUL

No worries at all. In fact I have decided to get a turntable and it will be NOT the USB type. Hope I have made the correct decision.
darrelsilva is offline  
post #20 of 75 Old 04-11-2013, 10:34 PM
Senior Member
 
kraut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 378
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 60
Quote:
Having a huge vinyl collection....and my share of cd's, I can only say that IMOH, the vinyl analog sounds richer to me than the cd.

Your purely subjective statements had to be balanced with a rational approach: what could be behind your feeling that vinyl sounds richer (implying better?) and posting some objective evidence to give the thread starter a chance to not only rely on feelings by an old geezer who wallows in nostalgia - and I am older by three years, so do not shout age discrimination at me - but to look at some distortion measurement.
And do not give me that guff about "you never bought flawed records". I have purchased records from EMC, who produced records of a quality that put any American pop crap to shame and still they usually had some surface noise right out of the package.
Think about the stylus/record groove interface and you explain to me how that means of reproduction will NOT sound flawed based on the simple physics of a stylus riding in a groove:
http://stoneturntable.net/riding-the-groove/
Quote:
For the half a mile or so of record groove per LP side, the stylus must precisely trace abrupt changes in the direction of the undulating groove, sometimes traveling at speeds several times the acceleration of gravity, without ever losing contact with either wall or blurring together the modulations.

Groove friction heats the stylus up to 350 degrees Fahrenheit and the groove vinyl momentarily liquefies each time the stylus passes over it. (This is why one should let a record rest for at least 30 minutes before replaying it, and preferably for 24 hours.)

Even though the cartridge tracking weight is commonly set at only about 1.5 grams, the entire weight is supported on the minute edges of the stylus. As a result, the downforce applied to the groove on a per-square-inch basis is several TONS.

Nothing against your liking old vinyl, that is your choice. What not is your choice is to spread subjective and very likely fictional accounts of your record experience without expecting someone will question those statements.
Quote:
What is your opinion in the quality of music heard between a VINYL LP and CD . I would like to compare basic models - say in the range of $150-300 (not high end ones).

This is the question posted and your answer definitely is not the whole picture. There is no comparison between CD quality (or music from audio files, directly recorded) with an obviously technically and sonically flawed system like vinyl playback.
kraut is offline  
post #21 of 75 Old 04-12-2013, 12:03 AM
Senior Member
 
Todd68's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 380
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Cheap USB turntables are a waste. Just to mention two popular turntables that are decent value. The Technics 1200 is a good solid deck. Rega has some affordable models that offer good performance.

You would need a decent phono stage also, and if buying a deck that isn't already set up, then need to learn cartridge alignment and adjustment plus buy the tools for the job.

If you are really interested in learning more, check out websites such as vinylengine and audio dedicated websites.
Todd68 is offline  
post #22 of 75 Old 04-12-2013, 04:33 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
arnyk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Grosse Pointe Woods, MI
Posts: 14,381
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 747 Post(s)
Liked: 1161
Quote:
Originally Posted by darrelsilva View Post

Thank you and it is so wonderful to get all these feedback. It helps me.

Mark:- this is for you.

Reading your reply it seems to me that you had converted LP's to CD and that there was no difference when done like that. How did you do the converting? Did you still use this "crappy" type USB ones or did you use other methods?

Loveinthehd- this is for you

I too had been using LP's since about 12 and i'm now 54. Thought of getting back to the old listening habits (at least once in a while because having to change the LP every now and then is a problem).

For Mark and Loveinhd
I have now decided to get a turntable back.

What will you suggest for converting LP's. USB type turntables or old turntable with audio out to PC with the use of software?

It is all about quality, mostly mechanical. While impressive progress has been made in the area of price/performance of audio gear older mechanical technologies such as LP and analog tape are far slower.

I personally have a credible LP transcription rig including a Rega Turntable and arm, Shure and Grado cartridges and a number of SS and tube preamps including one by Conrad Johnson. My inventory of audio interfaces ranges up to the highly-regarded LynxTWO. So I don't think that I personally need to do product surveys in this area to satisfy my own needs.

Rather, I rely on what appear to me to be reliable sources such as:

http://www.knowzy.com/computers/audio/digitize_your_lps/usb_record_player_turntable_comparison.htm

which seems very acessible and comprehensive.
arnyk is offline  
post #23 of 75 Old 04-12-2013, 04:38 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
arnyk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Grosse Pointe Woods, MI
Posts: 14,381
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 747 Post(s)
Liked: 1161
Quote:
Originally Posted by darrelsilva View Post

JSUL

No worries at all. In fact I have decided to get a turntable and it will be NOT the USB type. Hope I have made the correct decision.

I say don't discard what may be a good alternative just because it has a USB interface. Note that the people who have criticized modern turntables on this thread have criticized "Cheap USB turntables" with the more important word being cheap as opposed to USB. There is absolutely nothing about USB interfaces that makes them always a limiting factor for LP transcription.

While I own one of the finest computer digital audio interaces around, namely the LynxTWO I would not hesitate to transcribe valuable legacy vinyl with a good USB interface. The ART interface mentioned above seems to have some applicability and I would not hesitate to use a Behringer UCA 202 with one of my fine old preamps. even the Conrad Johnson.
arnyk is offline  
post #24 of 75 Old 04-12-2013, 04:46 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
arnyk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Grosse Pointe Woods, MI
Posts: 14,381
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 747 Post(s)
Liked: 1161
Quote:
Originally Posted by kraut View Post


You really want to call that High Fidelity? What is your standard?

I own over 2000 records, some are now over 40 years old, a bit older than the record player I own since 1971, a Transcriptors Hydraulic Reference by Mitchell. I play back records, but I am simply pissed off when someone tries to tell me that objectively LP has any kind of sonic benefits.

I feel your pain. Some of us struggled valiantly against the limitations of LP technology back in the day when it was all that we had. It was a losing battle that the CD's digital technology has settled once and for all..

There is really only one logical reason to go out of your way to digitize LPs, and that is the absence of a viable pre-recorded digital alternative. You can also do it out of pure sentiment, which is not logical but is still a worthwhile human motivation.

I have a friend with more than 10,000 LPs who shows me ample justification for his efforts along this line for exactly that reason - nobody had previously done a credible transcription of many very worthwhile musical works. In these times a silled amateur working at home with the right but not prohibitively expensive hardware and software can duplicate and supersede the efforts of many professionals.
arnyk is offline  
post #25 of 75 Old 04-12-2013, 05:57 AM
Senior Member
 
JSUL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 342
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 38
Kraut:
I began my comments with 'IMHO.....'
Naturally, if one has high end equipment, vinyl flaws would be more evident.
I am not challenging your expertise on this topic.
The technology for vinyl is what is, just as the advancements in the digital format are wonderful.

It is highly likely that, with my 'middle of the road turntable/cartridge/stylus/amp/speakers' I was unable to hear and identify the flaws inherent to vinyl....but I enjoy them in the comfort of my home and fully understand that I am not attempting to reproduce the sound quality at a concert venue.

I never said vinyl was superior to digital....simply that, with what I own, I can tune, for me, a quality sound reproduction, of my favorite artists.

Also, there are recordings on vinyl that likely will never see a cd.....so the option is the vinyl recording.

Music is fine art.....let's enjoy it.
JSUL is offline  
post #26 of 75 Old 04-12-2013, 06:07 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
darrelsilva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 28
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I never thought this thread will be so long. It spread to all directions worth considering. Thanks to all - I am enjoying reading and learning. Scientifically CD's have to be better than Vinyl. But even my little listening experience FEELS that the sound quality was more rich on Vinyl when it shouldn't be so.

One question:-

How would one know if a turntable is of Ceramic ,Anti Skating or Diamond ? Not sure if I asked this correctly.
darrelsilva is offline  
post #27 of 75 Old 04-12-2013, 06:59 AM
Senior Member
 
kraut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 378
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 60
Quote:
How would one know if a turntable is of Ceramic ,Anti Skating or Diamond ? Not sure if I asked this correctly.

What you are referring to is the cartridge/tonearm system. There are three main types of cartridges (there are some others, but rare), moving magnet, moving coil and ceramic
Ceramic cartridges are typically the cheapest type,with often limited frequency extension, but relatively high output.
Anti-skating refers to tendency of a tonearm while tracking a groove being pulled towards the centre of the record (vector forces are responsible for that) and thus tracking the inside groove wall with more force than the outside.. Anti skating is the attempt by mechanical or magnetic means to counter that force
http://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=54729

Diamond refers to the material used for the stylus. There are various shapes a phono stylus can be cut, elliptical, conical, shibata etc. which have an impact of how the stylus tracks in the groove.
kraut is offline  
post #28 of 75 Old 04-12-2013, 08:38 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
arnyk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Grosse Pointe Woods, MI
Posts: 14,381
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 747 Post(s)
Liked: 1161
Quote:
Originally Posted by darrelsilva View Post

I never thought this thread will be so long. It spread to all directions worth considering. Thanks to all - I am enjoying reading and learning. Scientifically CD's have to be better than Vinyl. But even my little listening experience FEELS that the sound quality was more rich on Vinyl when it shouldn't be so.

One question:-

How would one know if a turntable is of Ceramic ,Anti Skating or Diamond ? Not sure if I asked this correctly.

One source can be well-done reviews of the equipment such at those at:

http://www.knowzy.com/computers/audio/digitize_your_lps/usb_record_player_turntable_comparison.htm

One could hope that manufacturer spec sheets would be clear about this, and some of them are.
arnyk is offline  
post #29 of 75 Old 05-02-2013, 01:37 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
darrelsilva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 28
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
What do these mean. what is GOOD and what is BAD of these features - all ref to tuntables.

Auto and semi auto
Belt and direct drive
Stero turntable
Quad turntable
darrelsilva is offline  
post #30 of 75 Old 05-02-2013, 04:23 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
arnyk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Grosse Pointe Woods, MI
Posts: 14,381
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 747 Post(s)
Liked: 1161
Quote:
Originally Posted by darrelsilva View Post

What do these mean. what is GOOD and what is BAD of these features - all ref to tuntables.

Auto and semi auto
Belt and direct drive
Stereo turntable
Quad turntable

I see a strong argument for judging turntables by their actual individual performance by make and model, as opposed to trying to characterize their performance by broad categories such as these.

For example, take auto versus semi auto versus manual.

Once upon a time automatic turntable meant record changer, and record changers necessarily compromised playback performance because of a long list of compromises that they entailed. During the 1960s and 1970s a number of brilliant engineers including the staff at a German company named Dual produced a series of automatic turntables that outperformed many pure manual turntables of the previous decade. If there was a rule that said that an automatic turntable had to compromise sound quality, it got broken. Technology advanced.

A semi automatic turntable is probably a turntable that at least picks up the stylus at the end of playing a record. Mechanically simple and elegant add-ons for this purpose have been brought to market. Similar things can be done as part of the original design. Again, they need not compromise the sound quality of the turntable in any way.

There has been a long controversy over belt versus direct drive turntables. Technical tests show that some direct drive turntables have compromised sound quality, but others don't. The big difference I see is that it is possible to build a very good belt drive turntable with simple metal shop tools and off-the-shelf motors. Direct drive turntables require a major investment in special tooling. Either technology can be used to build a convenient, reliable, high performance product.

In the end its the performance of the individual make and model of product that matters, as there are a number of different technologies that can deliver excellent performance within the general and unyielding inherent limitations of LP playback technology.
arnyk is offline  
Reply Audio theory, Setup and Chat

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off