TV right next to window...can the front right speaker be at a 45 degree angle if left is a 30 degrees? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 11 Old 05-07-2013, 01:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi all so I'm putting together a midlevel 5.1 system in my family room. It is 21 feet long, 12 feet wide and 20 feet tall. The tv is about 10 feet from the main seating position up against the wall. I bought the Energy Take 5.1's and, deep breath, the TR-NR 616 and have those and all the cables and wires being shipped this week. My room related issue is the placement of the right front speaker for this 5.1 setup. The 55" tv literally touches the wall of windows on the right hand side and hence the only spot to place the right satelite is either directly above/below the tv or at a 45 degree angle from the seating position in the front right corner of the room. The left statelite can go anywhere to the left of the tv, below it or above it as there are no windows. My questions for your opinions are:

1. Will the AVR with Audyssey DSX, Dynamic EQ and 2EQ correct speaker placement if the left front is placed at a 30 degree angle from the seating area as it should be and the right front is at a 45 degree angle and about 3 feet farther away from the main seating area than the left front?

2. Alternatively, can the AVR correct the far distance from the tv the front satelites would be if I simply put the left front satelite at the same 45 degree away from the main seating position as the right front satelite? Each front satelite at that 45 degree angle puts each speaker about 5 feet from the tv on each side so the field would be really wide. The center channel will be presumable below the tv.

Thanks
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post #2 of 11 Old 05-07-2013, 03:35 PM
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The room correction feature in your receiver can correct for speaker distances and volume levels but not for speaker angles. If you place your speakers asymmetrically, then your soundstage will appear lopsided.

Sanjay
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post #3 of 11 Old 05-08-2013, 10:10 AM
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Why can't the speaker go in front of the windows???

Especially with such a large TV, I suggest shifting the entire LCR set to the left a little so you preserve a symetric angular spacing across the front; left and right speakers the same angle away from the CC, hopefully about 22.5 degrees to each side from the listening position (L/R angle should be 45 degrees, per THX). With tall ceilings, I'd put the speakers at the same height under the screen and mount the screen a little higher, so I could place the speakers correctly.

While this puts the screen to the right of the audio axis, the shift is small compared to the width of the screen, so it won't seem like dialog is coming from off screen unless it actually is...

The AVR's correction routine will adjust speaker distances and speaker frequency response, bit it can't change off-axis behavior (sdurani's point) and it can't change the program sent to each speaker, which sets the location of sounds in the sound field. Set up the right spacings with speakers aimed at the listening position and you'll hear the sound field that the mixing engineer intended.

Have fun,
Frank
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post #4 of 11 Old 05-08-2013, 10:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fbov View Post

Why can't the speaker go in front of the windows???

Especially with such a large TV, I suggest shifting the entire LCR set to the left a little so you preserve a symetric angular spacing across the front; left and right speakers the same angle away from the CC, hopefully about 22.5 degrees to each side from the listening position (L/R angle should be 45 degrees, per THX). With tall ceilings, I'd put the speakers at the same height under the screen and mount the screen a little higher, so I could place the speakers correctly.

While this puts the screen to the right of the audio axis, the shift is small compared to the width of the screen, so it won't seem like dialog is coming from off screen unless it actually is...

The AVR's correction routine will adjust speaker distances and speaker frequency response, bit it can't change off-axis behavior (sdurani's point) and it can't change the program sent to each speaker, which sets the location of sounds in the sound field. Set up the right spacings with speakers aimed at the listening position and you'll hear the sound field that the mixing engineer intended.

Have fun,
Frank

Thanks for the responses so far. The speakers can't go in front of the windows because I have a serious WAF issue. I'm talking complete hatred of home theatre and even a clock radio is offensive to her so this system is putting her over the edge. Putting the satelite in front of the window would require a stand and she'd take it down. I have no issue however wall mounting all three fronts under the TV if it will allow the sound field to be wide enough. Under the TV is probably a 10-12 degree angle from the main listening position. Under the tv then puts the speakers all exactly at ear height given how high I mounted it.
So then my question is can speakers mounted directly under the tv, ie, the right and left would be at the far edge but below the tv still sound decent given the 10 to 15 degree angle versus the 20.5 degree angle they should be at?
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post #5 of 11 Old 05-09-2013, 08:43 AM
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It's a question of degree...you'll make 22.5 degrees if you sit a little closer. I do it all the time, but then, I sit too far from my TV to see anything but SD resolution. Leaning forward looks better, and my seat will sometimes creep forward, too.

Set it up and listen. I suggested offsetting the audio and video axes in anticipation of this problem, which is really just one of many tradeoffs you need to make in a non-dedicated installation. Be assured that what you get will be better than the display's speakers, for sure!

HAve fun,
Frank
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post #6 of 11 Old 05-09-2013, 09:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fbov View Post

It's a question of degree...you'll make 22.5 degrees if you sit a little closer. I do it all the time, but then, I sit too far from my TV to see anything but SD resolution. Leaning forward looks better, and my seat will sometimes creep forward, too.

Set it up and listen. I suggested offsetting the audio and video axes in anticipation of this problem, which is really just one of many tradeoffs you need to make in a non-dedicated installation. Be assured that what you get will be better than the display's speakers, for sure!

HAve fun,
Frank

Thanks Frank. I'm on a budget given the WAF and that is just a family room so bought some Energy Take 5.1's. End of the day, I am replacing a 2004 all in one Phillips 5.2 system (two verticle tube subs). I gave no thought to the satelite placement given the front satelites and center were inside a cabinet where even with the doors open, the sound was blocked from filling the room.

What does it mean to offset the audio and video axes?
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post #7 of 11 Old 05-09-2013, 09:44 PM
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I have a serious WAF issue. I'm talking complete hatred of home theatre and even a clock radio is offensive to her so this system is putting her over the edge.

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post #8 of 11 Old 05-10-2013, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkust View Post

...What does it mean to offset the audio and video axes?
They say that the art of true compromise is when no one ends up happy. Sounds like you're doing better this time!

The video axis is defined by screen placement, the audio axis by CC location and L/R spread.

My TV sits on a table that contains both AVR and CC. I can't center the TV over the CC without it falling off... so I centerd the audio axis in the room, and offset the TV as a result.

If you have room opposite the window, you can space L/R far enough apart and then shift the CC from mid screen to halfway between L and R. It's really a SAF question, as now the speakers aren't aligned with the TV frame... and the L speaker's kind of out in the middle of no-where. Tradeoffs and compromises, this is a very small deal overall!

HAve fun,
Frank
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post #9 of 11 Old 05-10-2013, 08:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fbov View Post

They say that the art of true compromise is when no one ends up happy. Sounds like you're doing better this time!

The video axis is defined by screen placement, the audio axis by CC location and L/R spread.

My TV sits on a table that contains both AVR and CC. I can't center the TV over the CC without it falling off... so I centerd the audio axis in the room, and offset the TV as a result.

If you have room opposite the window, you can space L/R far enough apart and then shift the CC from mid screen to halfway between L and R. It's really a SAF question, as now the speakers aren't aligned with the TV frame... and the L speaker's kind of out in the middle of no-where. Tradeoffs and compromises, this is a very small deal overall!

HAve fun,
Frank

Thanks again Frank. The bummer is that she is the one at home getting all of the shipments of components, wires and cables. The Energy Take's arrived yesterday and they come in a big box she had to bring in. When this is done, I plan to use zone 2 and zone3 and wire up the rest of the house with a basic whole house audio. She may just get out the divorce papers when she sees me doing that. Every dollar I spend on HT is a dollar less for her to spend on home decor. As long as I can make the systems blend in as nicely as possible, the pissed-off-ness should subside quickly.
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post #10 of 11 Old 05-10-2013, 08:44 PM
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You might try speakers like these. Let her pick out which color she likes.
http://www.dnaudio.com/DNA-Sonic-Decor-Model-100-On-Wall-Speakers.html

I've even seen ones that look like art hanging on the wall. Search them on Google, let her pick out the finish/color etc.

More links for you that might help...
http://www.electronichouse.com/slideshow/category/6770/1033

http://www.beaux-artes.com/products/speakergrilles.html

http://www.outdoorspeakerdepot.com/in-wall-speakers.html

http://weburbanist.com/2009/12/17/amazing-audio-40-sexy-speakers-sweet-system-designs/ <--A little far out, but some things there she may like. One she'll def not like tho lol.biggrin.gif

JAMO IN-WALL DECORATIVE SPEAKERS

http://www.geekabout.com/2008-04-01-504/hidden-home-theaterhi-fi-speakers.html

http://www.ehow.com/how_5453199_hide-speakers-home-decor.html

Well, I hope some of these links help you. Good luck. smile.gif
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post #11 of 11 Old 05-13-2013, 08:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimethios View Post

You might try speakers like these. Let her pick out which color she likes.
http://www.dnaudio.com/DNA-Sonic-Decor-Model-100-On-Wall-Speakers.html

I've even seen ones that look like art hanging on the wall. Search them on Google, let her pick out the finish/color etc.

More links for you that might help...
smile.gif


Thanks for the links. The Energy Takes are on the wall now as I await the AVR and the long HDMI to finally get here. My thing is the house is 6000 square feet and she 'owns' every other room in the whole place. I think that me having some say in the family room isn't too much to ask. I've got the rears 6 feet up on the wall and she had a lamp with a massive shade completely blocking one of the surround. I suggested we move the lamp given the complete blockage and she started having a bit of a fit. I need to take baby steps here I see.
Now I plan to add whole house audio and so getting any ceiling speakers wired to the main floor ceilings will be very challenging without cutting into the ceiling where the wall and ceiling meet which I don't want to do. I may just use some inwall speakers such as the above to placate her.
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