UMIK-1 and REW SPL Metering - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 10 Old 05-27-2013, 01:49 PM - Thread Starter
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When I set test tones on my Onkyo TX-NR709 and use the UMIK with REW as an SPL meter, it shows 90db output...my phone with an app shows 60-ish...I already know my phone is not very accurate, but I have to believe that there is no way this is 90db...I thought these tones were supposed to be 75? I cannot adjust the Onkyo enough to make it that low.

What is the aimed-for level when using Onkyo test tones and is the UMIK-1 with REW reliable SPL meter? SHould I set it on A/C/Z (and the 90db was in C weighting, it goes down to 84 in A weighting)
I ran to radio shack but they were out of meters, and only carry the digital one (is that one ok?) I guess I will have to order one online..best under 100 bucks? Galaxy, PE, Radio Shack?

EDIT: I hooked up my audyssey mic to the onkyo, when it reads 87, the UMIK reads 101...so definitely off. For some reason Audyssey has me turning one sub down -32DB and the other about the same...thats a lot of cut on the subs...especially since i have a 5k cuft space with only 800wrms of subwoofer.
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post #2 of 10 Old 05-27-2013, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaneb0422 View Post

When I set test tones on my Onkyo TX-NR709 and use the UMIK with REW as an SPL meter, it shows 90db output...my phone with an app shows 60-ish...I already know my phone is not very accurate, but I have to believe that there is no way this is 90db...I thought these tones were supposed to be 75? I cannot adjust the Onkyo enough to make it that low.

What is the aimed-for level when using Onkyo test tones and is the UMIK-1 with REW reliable SPL meter? SHould I set it on A/C/Z (and the 90db was in C weighting, it goes down to 84 in A weighting)
I ran to radio shack but they were out of meters, and only carry the digital one (is that one ok?) I guess I will have to order one online..best under 100 bucks? Galaxy, PE, Radio Shack?

EDIT: I hooked up my audyssey mic to the onkyo, when it reads 87, the UMIK reads 101...so definitely off. For some reason Audyssey has me turning one sub down -32DB and the other about the same...thats a lot of cut on the subs...especially since i have a 5k cuft space with only 800wrms of subwoofer.
I presume you have the cal table for that Umic.
The spl meter in REW needs to be calibrated too with a known quantity spl meter as best I understand this.
Also, you need a good spl meter to calibrate the receiver to that 75 dB spl with its internal test tone.
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post #3 of 10 Old 05-27-2013, 05:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Gotcha. I do have the cal file in. I will see about calibrating the rew meter.
I suppose galaxy spl meters are good even the cheap one. I can do some searching for that or calibrate rew from the audyssey subwoofer level setup.
As for calibrating the receiver....I don't think I knw how to do that. It plays tones but I don't think I can adjust them.
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post #4 of 10 Old 05-28-2013, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaneb0422 View Post

Gotcha. I do have the cal file in. I will see about calibrating the rew meter.
I suppose galaxy spl meters are good even the cheap one. I can do some searching for that or calibrate rew from the audyssey subwoofer level setup.
As for calibrating the receiver....I don't think I knw how to do that. It plays tones but I don't think I can adjust them.

I would not use the sub levels to calibrate but perhaps a wide band of pink noise or the test tones from the receiver itself.

The manual for the receiver should have a page or two on how to level match each channels with the internal test tone in the receiver, how to get to that speaker set up and calibration. Depending on the receiver when this test is started, the master volume control on the receiver may go to a predetermined setting and usually the left channel starts playing the test tone. The receiver should show you trim level adjustment window to adjust the the trim to 75 db spl on your meter. This is the calibration of the receiver. Then, either manually or the receiver automatically will play the next channel, center, right, right surround, left surround and sub. All should be trimmed to 75 dB spl. Now your receiver is calibrated and level matched.

Set up your REW, the mic at the listening position at ear level, get the the spl meter in it and use its calibration function using external source for sound. Repeat your receiver test to get the test tone that should read 75 dB spl on your meter used to calibrate the receiver and check what the REW meter is showing. Adjust the REW meter to read the same as the hand meter.
Then, do whatever testing you want.
At least this is how I understand this.
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post #5 of 10 Old 05-28-2013, 09:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the words on rew calibration of spl. Didn't know it could be calibrated. I'm pretty familiar with the receivers level setting I just haven't had a mic that is ever reading the supposed 75db to calibrate to, outside of the beginning of audyssey setup where it gives you 75db to match sub to. I reckon I need to order a proper spl meter.

The Onkyo manual (TX-NR709) says use level matching to make sure each speaker has same output at listening position and says nothing about what that level should be. Just that it should be even.
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post #6 of 10 Old 05-30-2013, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaneb0422 View Post

Thanks for the words on rew calibration of spl. Didn't know it could be calibrated. I'm pretty familiar with the receivers level setting I just haven't had a mic that is ever reading the supposed 75db to calibrate to, outside of the beginning of audyssey setup where it gives you 75db to match sub to. I reckon I need to order a proper spl meter.

The Onkyo manual (TX-NR709) says use level matching to make sure each speaker has same output at listening position and says nothing about what that level should be. Just that it should be even.
That is surprising no mention of SPL level. Is that receiver a THX receiver? The THX ones I had in the past , the master volume goes to 0 on the readout by itself and then you are supposed to adjust to 75 dB spl. It is usually close to that to begin with but channels may vary enough to use the trims for each channel.

75 dB spl is used in homes as most test disc uses a signal that is called -30 dB full scale with 0 dB being 105 dB spl. So, that is where the 75 comes from.
What level does your phone reads when trying to do a manual level matching as you should be able to do that as well.

Yes, it is a good idea to have a SPL meter in this hobby. wink.gifbiggrin.gif
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post #7 of 10 Old 06-02-2013, 12:52 PM - Thread Starter
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I managed to get a SPL meter - Rat Shack had one Analog left for 6 bucks!!
Difference between it and phone is about 9-10 db.
Onkyo has no volume control when playing tones, they just play at the level they play at.

Audyssey set speakers to roughly 71-72db. I installed third sub today and set each sub individually at same, then turned all on - brought it up 3db which is preferable to me. A bit louder at lower listening levels even.

So - I could do 75db reference, but at this point I'm still not sure if that's the right level for the Onkyo? Especially since Audyssey didn't do that. UNLESS the Audyssey mic is more accurate and the spl meter is 3 db lower than Audyssey and the system is actually calibrated properly.
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post #8 of 10 Old 06-02-2013, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaneb0422 View Post

I managed to get a SPL meter - Rat Shack had one Analog left for 6 bucks!!
Difference between it and phone is about 9-10 db.
Onkyo has no volume control when playing tones, they just play at the level they play at.

Audyssey set speakers to roughly 71-72db. I installed third sub today and set each sub individually at same, then turned all on - brought it up 3db which is preferable to me. A bit louder at lower listening levels even.

So - I could do 75db reference, but at this point I'm still not sure if that's the right level for the Onkyo? Especially since Audyssey didn't do that. UNLESS the Audyssey mic is more accurate and the spl meter is 3 db lower than Audyssey and the system is actually calibrated properly.
Hard for me to say how good that mic is in Audyssey. I am assuming you placed the RS meter and the Audyssey mic at the same location, right?

Did you trim all the channels to 75 dB spl with your RS meter before you let Audysse do the auto cal? Does it have the feature to show the spl level before it starts its setup so you can see what it is measuring and what RS shows before the auto cal? If not, then it is even more unknown.
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post #9 of 10 Old 06-02-2013, 05:58 PM - Thread Starter
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You're right. A lot of unknown.
I did not calibrate levels prior to audyssey. Audyssey provides a readout in the beginning to set the subwoofer level. Doing this is when I found the phone and REW was off. Have not done this since getting Rs meter.
I did place mic in same place.

I'll play with it all some more and see what I can determine.
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post #10 of 10 Old 06-04-2013, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaneb0422 View Post

You're right. A lot of unknown.
I did not calibrate levels prior to audyssey. Audyssey provides a readout in the beginning to set the subwoofer level. Doing this is when I found the phone and REW was off. Have not done this since getting Rs meter.
I did place mic in same place.

I'll play with it all some more and see what I can determine.
Yes, experimentation is in order to figure things out.biggrin.gif
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