Options On Creating Custom "House Curves" - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 22 Old 06-07-2013, 07:49 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
beastaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western NC
Posts: 6,904
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 188 Post(s)
Liked: 543
I want to look into ways to create different house curves, for the full spectrum of my HT setup. Right now I have the ability through my DCX2496 to do a good job in the bass region, but I have come to realize that dead flat up top just doesn't sound that good to me. I would prefer the 1dB per step drop that Toole suggests.

Some things to note:

~I have XT32 engaged which does good enough to smooth the response, and any curve I would apply I would at least want it to play nicely with Audyssey.

~I don't mind having an external unit to do the processing if I have to.

~Room treatments are already applied, so I am doing pretty good there.

I would also consider Audyssey pro, if I am actually able to in fact create the type of profile I suggested above, but I don't know if it does that or not?

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

"If you done it, it ain't bragging." ~ Walt Whitman

 

AE TD12x SEOS12 Build

Beast's DIY Master Measurement Thread

DIY Emminence Coaxial Surround Thread

beastaudio is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 22 Old 06-07-2013, 08:24 AM
FOH
AVS Special Member
 
FOH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Midwest
Posts: 4,742
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 207
When you say different ways, are you referring to hardware? Or approaches, techniques?


DSPeaker's Dual Core piece has some interesting house curve tools. I've not used them, however they appear fascinating. If interested, hit me up, I know a dealer, fellow AVS'er if he's still dealing them.


The Velodyne SMS-1, although dated, always seems like a viable option for many.


All said, full blown DSP via loudspeaker processing, like Xilica XD 4x8, or the less expensive, somewhat less capable XP line. Xilica would be the best, affordable DSP for HT usage, IMO. XD, if you want the highest rez, XP otherwise. I don't know how significant, if any, the difference would be.


Or, I like to have parametric EQ right at my side, @ the LP. With teens, and a wife that loves as much good material as me, we enjoy a variety of content .. from a variety of sources. Primarily BluRay playback, but they view other cable content, and I have to adjust to taste and make small balance adjustments accordingly. Strictly BluRay playback would likely be fine, but I find spectral balance all over the place ... hence the tweaking. Also, playback level clearly adds an additional variable, and with my FOH background, I find it difficult to settle for balance issues.


Beast, do your playback levels vary significantly?

------------------------------------
Flat, Deep, Clean, Linear, and Loud
------------------------------------
Active 16.8kw, 7.3 system
(3)Seaton Cat12C up front, (4)QSC K8 sides/rears
(2)Seaton SubM-HP, (4)18" IB
FOH is offline  
post #3 of 22 Old 06-07-2013, 08:45 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
beastaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western NC
Posts: 6,904
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 188 Post(s)
Liked: 543
Well, both hardware and approaches I guess. basically, I have a great house curve from 5hz slowly decreasing down to about 100hz in the bass range using the DCX and I love it this way, but from 100hz on I am pretty much dead flat. I would like to continue the trend of the "House curve" through the entire frequency spectrum so that would in essence require parametric eq, or additonal DSP. I don't know how much curve I would prefer at this point, so I would like some flexability.

The AntiMode 2.0 is right along the lines of what I think would work perfectly. The SMS-1 is just for subs AFAIK. I had one, but never hooked it up and sold it a while back after I got the DCX all figured out. I guess MiniDSP would be another option but once again I don't know if they have the ability to do full range curves. I also have a dual 31 band parametric at my disposal but I have only ever used it for small FR tweaks.

Bottom line is I like flat for movies (for the most part) but as I listen to more and more music, I see many spots where I would feel like a complete house curve would suit my ears better smile.gif I don't know how much that xilica option is, but I bet it aint cheap!

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

"If you done it, it ain't bragging." ~ Walt Whitman

 

AE TD12x SEOS12 Build

Beast's DIY Master Measurement Thread

DIY Emminence Coaxial Surround Thread

beastaudio is offline  
post #4 of 22 Old 07-01-2013, 11:27 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
beastaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western NC
Posts: 6,904
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 188 Post(s)
Liked: 543
Want to bump this for some additional comments if anyone has any biggrin.gif

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

"If you done it, it ain't bragging." ~ Walt Whitman

 

AE TD12x SEOS12 Build

Beast's DIY Master Measurement Thread

DIY Emminence Coaxial Surround Thread

beastaudio is offline  
post #5 of 22 Old 07-01-2013, 11:33 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Nightlord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Southern Sweden
Posts: 1,369
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 66 Post(s)
Liked: 85
Here's my livingroom curves without and with subwoofers. That's as clse to my ideal house curve as I can tune it..
pi60s-s_utan_med_basar.PNG

Under construction: the Larch theater
Nightlord is online now  
post #6 of 22 Old 07-01-2013, 12:27 PM
AVS Special Member
 
LastButNotLeast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: 08077
Posts: 4,339
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 61 Post(s)
Liked: 206

Unlike most other threads here, I don't see an "equipment list" (though your "Larch theater" thread taught me a great deal - mostly that I have ABSOLUTELY NO interest in tackling a project like that myself). If part of your setup is an HTPC, you should look into the wonderful Equalizer APO program:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/equalizerapo/

It works with the output of REW (http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/), so you can set up whatever curve you want.

Best of luck with the rest of your amazing build.


Downloadable FREE demo discs:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1475769/de...ently-authored 

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
LastButNotLeast is offline  
post #7 of 22 Old 07-01-2013, 01:21 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Nightlord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Southern Sweden
Posts: 1,369
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 66 Post(s)
Liked: 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post

Unlike most other threads here, I don't see an "equipment list" (though your "Larch theater" thread taught me a great deal - mostly that I have ABSOLUTELY NO interest in tackling a project like that myself). If part of your setup is an HTPC, you should look into the wonderful Equalizer APO program:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/equalizerapo/
It works with the output of REW (http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/), so you can set up whatever curve you want.
Best of luck with the rest of your amazing build.

Thanks.

At the moment, I have no HTPC-plans for it. Movies I intend to run from BluRay ot DVD-discs directly and for music I intend to steam via Sonos if I don't play CDs. But if I change my mind, I will look that up. smile.gif

Though my main goal is as little EQ as possible and none until I've done as much by acoustic fixes as possible (besides the extreme-LF lift, that is).

If there is an equipment-list interest, of course I can list it. But the loudspeakers aren't available outside Sweden, so there's a 'fail' already there. biggrin.gif

Under construction: the Larch theater
Nightlord is online now  
post #8 of 22 Old 07-01-2013, 02:30 PM
AVS Special Member
 
LastButNotLeast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: 08077
Posts: 4,339
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 61 Post(s)
Liked: 206

It wouldn't be the first time I've learned about something I can't have!

I'm sure you'll have pictures of the equipment once it's in place, so you can ID it then.

No EQ is, indeed, best, but it's hard to build in a variable house curve. biggrin.gif

Good luck with the rest of your terrific build.


Downloadable FREE demo discs:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1475769/de...ently-authored 

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
LastButNotLeast is offline  
post #9 of 22 Old 07-01-2013, 07:53 PM
AVS Special Member
 
A9X-308's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Australia; now run by adults.
Posts: 5,163
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Liked: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Well, both hardware and approaches I guess. basically, I have a great house curve from 5hz slowly decreasing down to about 100hz in the bass range using the DCX and I love it this way, but from 100hz on I am pretty much dead flat. I would like to continue the trend of the "House curve" through the entire frequency spectrum so that would in essence require parametric eq, or additonal DSP. I don't know how much curve I would prefer at this point, so I would like some flexability.
Whilst I've never tried this, I can't see why you can't do it in the DCX. If not possible to program it easily for such a low slope, then the MiniDSP allows biquad programming to facilitate developing your own custom curves.
A9X-308 is offline  
post #10 of 22 Old 07-01-2013, 09:23 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Nightlord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Southern Sweden
Posts: 1,369
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 66 Post(s)
Liked: 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post

It wouldn't be the first time I've learned about something I can't have!
I'm sure you'll have pictures of the equipment once it's in place, so you can ID it then.
No EQ is, indeed, best, but it's hard to build in a variable house curve. biggrin.gif

Good luck with the rest of your terrific build.

Well, as it stands today there's a Panasonic BluRay and a Pioneer 668 dvd-player and a Sonos for sources, I have a Denon 2807 and a Krell Showcase to choose from as processors, but I hope to go to a Denon 4520 or similar later on. An Oppo BluRay would be nice too.
The front speakers will be powered by a Rotel 1090, the subwoofers by a NAD208 and there's a Marantz MM9000 to power other channels. So a little short on channels for the Showcase.

Fronts and subs will be electrically crossovered by an Ino cr80es filter rather than in the receiver, it's got better slopes for that and it sums fullrange front signals with the .1 if one can't trust the receiver to do that properly. It's got a infrasonic boost card in it so I can shape the bass lift both in curve shape, amplitude and Q at crossover point, so that will handle a big part of the hourse curving.
Here's how the beauty looks like, quite useful functionality on it:
cr80es.jpg

Speakers are almost all Ino Audio speakers. Fronts i32s, subwoofers infraY, surrounds ambience2, ceiling surrounds ambience1. For front wide I plan to try Carlsson OA52 and for front high Carlsson OA51.

No center yet, but I hope to find an Ino i16s or even a single i32s more. A good amp choice to find for that could be a Rotel 1080/991 and bridge it externally.

Under construction: the Larch theater
Nightlord is online now  
post #11 of 22 Old 07-02-2013, 06:54 AM
AVS Special Member
 
LastButNotLeast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: 08077
Posts: 4,339
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 61 Post(s)
Liked: 206

Very nice.

I don't recognize the graph. What software are you using for measuring? Room EQ Wizard, that I mentioned before, is the setup that I've used that's very popular here:

post #275


Downloadable FREE demo discs:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1475769/de...ently-authored 

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
LastButNotLeast is offline  
post #12 of 22 Old 07-02-2013, 08:33 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Nightlord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Southern Sweden
Posts: 1,369
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 66 Post(s)
Liked: 85
If it's my graph you mean, it's done with a borrowed XTZ. For my current needs I run AudioTools (Six Digital) on iPad and plan on getting the hardware solution that goes with it later. Right now I only need deltas, so the internal mic will do for now. If I were to use REW, I would need 150 feet worth of cable to reach the computer...eek.gif

Under construction: the Larch theater
Nightlord is online now  
post #13 of 22 Old 07-02-2013, 08:45 AM
AVS Special Member
 
LastButNotLeast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: 08077
Posts: 4,339
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 61 Post(s)
Liked: 206

You mean ANOTHER 150 feet of cable. biggrin.gif


Downloadable FREE demo discs:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1475769/de...ently-authored 

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
LastButNotLeast is offline  
post #14 of 22 Old 07-02-2013, 08:51 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Nightlord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Southern Sweden
Posts: 1,369
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 66 Post(s)
Liked: 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post

You mean ANOTHER 150 feet of cable. biggrin.gif

150 feet microphone wire, 150 feet signal cable.

Under construction: the Larch theater
Nightlord is online now  
post #15 of 22 Old 07-02-2013, 08:53 AM
AVS Special Member
 
LastButNotLeast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: 08077
Posts: 4,339
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 61 Post(s)
Liked: 206

Sorry, I was referring to the miles of cable you already have in your system. wink.gif

 

I have a laptop, just for REW and ColorHCFR.

And to make me appreciate my mac more.


Downloadable FREE demo discs:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1475769/de...ently-authored 

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
LastButNotLeast is offline  
post #16 of 22 Old 07-02-2013, 08:56 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Nightlord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Southern Sweden
Posts: 1,369
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 66 Post(s)
Liked: 85
Thought that might be the case, but wasn't fully sure.

Have an ancient laptop, but at least with XTZ the laptop itself introduced a hum... It's ancient, it's a wonder there's USB on it.cool.gif

Under construction: the Larch theater
Nightlord is online now  
post #17 of 22 Old 07-02-2013, 05:51 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
beastaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western NC
Posts: 6,904
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 188 Post(s)
Liked: 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post

Unlike most other threads here, I don't see an "equipment list" (though your "Larch theater" thread taught me a great deal - mostly that I have ABSOLUTELY NO interest in tackling a project like that myself). If part of your setup is an HTPC, you should look into the wonderful Equalizer APO program:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/equalizerapo/
It works with the output of REW (http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/), so you can set up whatever curve you want.
Best of luck with the rest of your amazing build.

thanks for the graphs!!!! but I am looking more towards a FULL Freq spectrum house curve. Past that hey, at least the thread jack is keeping the topic on the main page smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

Whilst I've never tried this, I can't see why you can't do it in the DCX. If not possible to program it easily for such a low slope, then the MiniDSP allows biquad programming to facilitate developing your own custom curves.

I think accomplishing this in the DCX would require an insane amount of EQ filters to input manually, while the MINI would appear to be a more seamless approach. Bottom line there though, would the audyssey pro kit take care of what I am looking for, just at a higher premium?

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

"If you done it, it ain't bragging." ~ Walt Whitman

 

AE TD12x SEOS12 Build

Beast's DIY Master Measurement Thread

DIY Emminence Coaxial Surround Thread

beastaudio is offline  
post #18 of 22 Old 07-03-2013, 08:49 AM
FOH
AVS Special Member
 
FOH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Midwest
Posts: 4,742
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

.... I am looking more towards a FULL Freq spectrum house curve.

Xilica 4x8 processor.

Something like the XD4080 would allow you to apply transparent shaping full spectrum, to the fronts and subs (nothing for the surrounds). I'm guessing 4 super wide/low Q filters would get it done, one on each input channel of the 4x8. Routing the three LCRs, in addition to a subwoofer input into the front side of the 4x8, would allow you great control. After the three LCRs, the remaining 5 channels could be utilized for multiple subwoofer optimization and time alignment.

The XilicaXD is likely the finest, most transparent, and "best in class" in relatively affordable 4x8DSP that possesses enough resolution and transparency for mains usage, ... IMO.

------------------------------------
Flat, Deep, Clean, Linear, and Loud
------------------------------------
Active 16.8kw, 7.3 system
(3)Seaton Cat12C up front, (4)QSC K8 sides/rears
(2)Seaton SubM-HP, (4)18" IB
FOH is offline  
post #19 of 22 Old 07-07-2013, 10:17 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
beastaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western NC
Posts: 6,904
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 188 Post(s)
Liked: 543
Thanks FOH, The xilica is a very fine product indeed. Biting off that much is going to hurt, but I may just try it smile.gif

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

"If you done it, it ain't bragging." ~ Walt Whitman

 

AE TD12x SEOS12 Build

Beast's DIY Master Measurement Thread

DIY Emminence Coaxial Surround Thread

beastaudio is offline  
post #20 of 22 Old 07-07-2013, 11:02 AM
AVS Special Member
 
LastButNotLeast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: 08077
Posts: 4,339
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 61 Post(s)
Liked: 206

You might want to watch this interview first:

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1478854/the-science-of-the-room-with-paul-hales


Downloadable FREE demo discs:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1475769/de...ently-authored 

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
LastButNotLeast is offline  
post #21 of 22 Old 07-07-2013, 04:25 PM
AVS Special Member
 
A9X-308's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Australia; now run by adults.
Posts: 5,163
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Liked: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Thanks FOH, The xilica is a very fine product indeed. Biting off that much is going to hurt, but I may just try it smile.gif
Have you even tried doing it with the DCX or is it simply another way to justify more hardware?
A9X-308 is offline  
post #22 of 22 Old 07-07-2013, 10:09 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
beastaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western NC
Posts: 6,904
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 188 Post(s)
Liked: 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post

You might want to watch this interview first:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1478854/the-science-of-the-room-with-paul-hales

Whoa, big video but I will definitely check it out. Thanks!
Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

Have you even tried doing it with the DCX or is it simply another way to justify more hardware?

Not at this time as the DCX is currently being used for sub duty with an L/T... Not sure if I want to give that up at this point, but another DCX is not obviously out of the question. Do you or anyone else have experience doing a full FR curve with a DCX?

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

"If you done it, it ain't bragging." ~ Walt Whitman

 

AE TD12x SEOS12 Build

Beast's DIY Master Measurement Thread

DIY Emminence Coaxial Surround Thread

beastaudio is offline  
Reply Audio theory, Setup and Chat

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off