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post #1 of 23 Old 06-10-2013, 12:46 PM - Thread Starter
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It seems like when i get down to dressing cables for customers the damn coax cables are so stiff i can manage them. Do they make a flexible coax cable that i can terminate ?

Kg. Thanx
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post #2 of 23 Old 06-10-2013, 02:02 PM
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What's the application? Video or audio?

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post #3 of 23 Old 06-10-2013, 02:09 PM
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Video or audio doesn't matter. RGx coax is what it is...
RG59 is more flexible than RG6 or RG6Qs.
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post #4 of 23 Old 06-10-2013, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

Video or audio doesn't matter. RGx coax is what it is...
RG59 is more flexible than RG6 or RG6Qs.

That's not true. You should not use RG59 for CATV or Satellite feeds, not enough bandwidth, at least that was what I was told and trained by CEDIA.

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post #5 of 23 Old 06-10-2013, 03:11 PM
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No, it is true. Audio or video is not the issue at hand.

RG59 is fine for CATV (depending on length) or audio, satellite may have other requirements.

I didn't recommend to use RG59 for any/all coax applications. Just merely stated the question in regard to "flexibility". There's plenty of "bandwidth" for cable TV using RG59. But, that's not the point...

Either way... RGx coax is RGx coax. Use what is recommended and better for the customer. IMO... "dressing" the cable cables is something easily resolved with some training and forethought.

Any recommendations for the OP based on your CEDIA training?
Any flexible coax that he/she can terminate?
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post #6 of 23 Old 06-10-2013, 03:17 PM
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One well known cable manufacture lists 40 or more RG6 co-ax cables. Some have words like 'Super-Flexible' or 'High Flex' in their description. Remember that different RG6 cables are suitable for different frequencies.

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post #7 of 23 Old 06-10-2013, 05:58 PM - Thread Starter
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It would carry internet, like walloutlet to cablebox and wall outlet to router. I'm thinking a broad bandwidth to not hobble internet speed.....
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post #8 of 23 Old 06-10-2013, 08:21 PM - Thread Starter
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I sent bluejeans an email to see what they carry. It has to be able to carry a full bandwidth internet signal and a HDTV video and audio signal....
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post #9 of 23 Old 06-10-2013, 08:30 PM
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What about Belden 1694F. It's the flexible version of 1694A. http://www.belden.com/docs/upload/np233.pdf

Says you can use the same connectors as 1694A which is nice if you already have the Canare crimp tool set.

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post #10 of 23 Old 06-10-2013, 09:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyal Mellor View Post

That's not true. You should not use RG59 for CATV or Satellite feeds, not enough bandwidth, at least that was what I was told and trained by CEDIA.

The 12ghz KU band from the satellite is block converted down to L band at the dish which is around 1240mhz. So yes RG59 is a bit lossy up there but can be used. I wouldn't given the choice.

The main issue with DBS coax is not to use copper clad RG6. It's just fine RF wise at 1240mhz due to skin effect. But remember the dish LNB converter need DC power as well as some control signals. Copper clad coax cannot supply enough current in longer runs.

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post #11 of 23 Old 06-11-2013, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post

The 12ghz KU band from the satellite is block converted down to L band at the dish which is around 1240mhz. So yes RG59 is a bit lossy up there but can be used. I wouldn't given the choice.

The main issue with DBS coax is not to use copper clad RG6. It's just fine RF wise at 1240mhz due to skin effect. But remember the dish LNB converter need DC power as well as some control signals. Copper clad coax cannot supply enough current in longer runs.

Thanks for the info smile.gif

I guess you mean copper clad steel? I guess that has too much resistance vs pure copper in longer runs?

Is RG59 fine for CATV runs, if so why? I know CEDIA likes to simplify things so entry level techs can remember stuff easier and not get confused...they basically said "if the cable is carrying multiple signals (e.g. multiplexed CATV, Satellite) then use RG6, if only one (audio, camera feed, component video) then use RG59"

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post #12 of 23 Old 06-11-2013, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyal Mellor View Post

Thanks for the info smile.gif

I guess you mean copper clad steel? I guess that has too much resistance vs pure copper in longer runs?

Is RG59 fine for CATV runs, if so why? I know CEDIA likes to simplify things so entry level techs can remember stuff easier and not get confused...they basically said "if the cable is carrying multiple signals (e.g. multiplexed CATV, Satellite) then use RG6, if only one (audio, camera feed, component video) then use RG59"

RG59 basically hasn't been used for CATV since the 1970s. The main reason is RG6 has better shielding. Also 150 channel and higher system are up in the 1ghz range. So here RG59 is a bit lossy.

Note that true RG59 is 73ohms impedance, not 75ohms. So that's a problem right there as length increases.

Rg59 has never been that popular in high end broadcast video either. It was generally used for reference signals and non critical monitor feeds. There was an RG6 style analog video cable, Belden 8281 that was use for program feeds. This has largely been replaced with 1694 which is a foam version for digital video at 270mbs up to now 3gbs for 1080P HDTV. There are now also some very good true 75ohm RG59 size digital cables that are great for runs under 100 feet.

I use Canare RG59 for all my HT video feeds including HDSDI at 1.5gbs. However no cable is longer than 25 feet and the Canare stuff is true 75ohms. All my RF stuff (CATV, DISH) is RG6.

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post #13 of 23 Old 06-11-2013, 02:21 PM
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Cool thanks for the info. Which Canare RG59 do you use? Are there any advantages (cost, flexibility, etc) to using that rather than RG6?

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post #14 of 23 Old 06-14-2013, 11:18 AM
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I just use Canare LV-61S in my HT.

http://www.canare.com/ProductItemDisplay.aspx?productItemID=75

This is just a basic stranded core 75ohm RG59. I use it for digital video, both SDI and HDSDI as well as AES. They do make better cables, especially for HDSDI but as I have only 25 foot lengths, this stuff is fine.

For composite video such as monitoring and security cameras I used Belden 8241, a plain old RG59.

I do have a couple of higher end legacy composite sources, 3/4inch and a 1" VTR so here I used 1694A as it's double shielded and less HF loss. But honestly plain old RG59 would probably look identical image quality wise at 25 feet.

Note my standard cable length is 25 feet for everything. The reason is I used a computer floor in my HT equipment room so the excess cable is hidden under the floor. Gross overkill for an HT but then we all have our priorities in out hobbies. wink.gif

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post #15 of 23 Old 06-17-2013, 10:41 AM
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I work in the cable industry and can say that RG59 may not be used in homes anymore but it is absolutely used in the mission critical areas. It has plenty of bandwidth, we run 1GHz through it no problem. The stuff we use is quad shielded with a silver core, I can't imagine the cost of it to use in the home though. If you are looking for flexible coax, I would look into what we call mini6. It is a very small coax that has fairly high loss but would be fine for short runs. The down side again is it has a very high price and requires all new sets of tools and connectors.
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post #16 of 23 Old 06-17-2013, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gstro19 View Post

I work in the cable industry and can say that RG59 may not be used in homes anymore but it is absolutely used in the mission critical areas. It has plenty of bandwidth, we run 1GHz through it no problem. The stuff we use is quad shielded with a silver core, I can't imagine the cost of it to use in the home though. If you are looking for flexible coax, I would look into what we call mini6. It is a very small coax that has fairly high loss but would be fine for short runs. The down side again is it has a very high price and requires all new sets of tools and connectors.

Just keep in mind there is a difference between true specification RG59 and RG59 "size" or "type" cables. The Belden 1505 I noted is good up to 3ghz to a certain length but it;s not true RG59 to the spec. It's just the same size and compatible with many of the RG59 connectors. The Canare stuff I use is a true 75ohm RG59 SIZE cable so it really isn't RG59 per spec. Basic to spec RG59 is not even 75 ohms, it's 73 ohms.

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post #17 of 23 Old 06-17-2013, 12:51 PM
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I can honestly say I've never seen a 73 Ohm cable at work, but as you said that stuff was used for installs before I was born. Everything we use here is 75 and the stuff we use is here http://www.commscope.com/catalog/broadband/product_details.aspx?id=6060 If money was no option, I'd wire my whole house with it.

To the OP, the main thing is keeping the center conductor the same distance to the shielding on the cable. If you bend it to tight, 1.5 in radius for our RG6 we use, it could cause an impedance mismatch. If you're just hooking up CATV and or a modem, you're fine with a short run of quality 59, not crappy radio shack antenna wire. The loss between the two is only a real issue when you're getting above the 100' mark.
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post #18 of 23 Old 06-17-2013, 02:47 PM
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Call Belden Cable and get a complete catalog sent to you.

It has many many 73/75 ohm cables with all sorts of physical and electrical characteristics for all applications.
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post #19 of 23 Old 06-17-2013, 02:52 PM
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Yeah, if you go back far enough you can find that the specification for RG-59 was 73 ohms. There was a RG-59B that was 75 ohms. Today it is pretty much irrelevant. The military who originated the nomenclature don't use it anymore. Nobody makes RG cable, they make RG "type" cable which matches the original specifications only broadly in the areas of size and nominal impedance, and almost all of it in use today, if not all of it, is 75 ohms. And yes, 73 ohm coax is used for some applications.
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post #20 of 23 Old 06-17-2013, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post

RG59 basically hasn't been used for CATV since the 1970s.
You're only about 30 years off with that.
Quote:
The main reason is RG6 has better shielding. Also 150 channel and higher system are up in the 1ghz range. So here RG59 is a bit lossy.
The shielding issue is not a big deal. There are dual shield and quad shield RG59s. RG6 is simply better with higher frequencies than RG59.
Quote:

Note that true RG59 is 73ohms impedance, not 75ohms. So that's a problem right there as length increases.
RG59 for TV and video has a characteristic impedance of 75 ohms. And many older TV studio installations used 50 ohm connectors, which was not a problem with baseband video.
Quote:

Rg59 has never been that popular in high end broadcast video either. It was generally used for reference signals and non critical monitor feeds. There was an RG6 style analog video cable, Belden 8281 that was use for program feeds. This has largely been replaced with 1694 which is a foam version for digital video at 270mbs up to now 3gbs for 1080P HDTV. There are now also some very good true 75ohm RG59 size digital cables that are great for runs under 100 feet.
RG59 is ubiquitous in analog TV installations. And I include Belden 8281in that because it is not RG6, it is a dual shield RG59. And also not as universally used as you suggest. For many installations a much less expensive and more flexible RG59 was used, such as 8241.
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post #21 of 23 Old 06-17-2013, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Riffmeister View Post

You're only about 30 years off with that.
30 years? Explain. Note by CATV I mean the CATV company installations, not some independent master building antenna system. Perhaps that is the confusion.
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The shielding issue is not a big deal. There are dual shield and quad shield RG59s. RG6 is simply better with higher frequencies than RG59.
Yes RG6 is better at HF. I though I made that point. And basic RG59 of that era was not double shielded. Remember that RF egress from CATV systems was a hot FCC issue in the early 1980s CATV construction explosion.
Quote:
RG59 for TV and video has a characteristic impedance of 75 ohms. And many older TV studio installations used 50 ohm connectors, which was not a problem with baseband video.
As I said true RG59 was 73 ohms. There were and are many RG59 size cables made that are indeed 75 ohms but the classic stuff was 73. yes a 50ohm BNC connector is not an issue at 5mhz and 73ohms is close enough too at these frequencies.
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RG59 is ubiquitous in analog TV installations. And I include Belden 8281in that because it is not RG6, it is a dual shield RG59. And also not as universally used as you suggest. For many installations a much less expensive and more flexible RG59 was used, such as 8241.
I know many industrial video systems as well as broadcast stations did use RG59 exclusively and at limited distances it was fine. But most network size plants and large production facilities always used 8281 or 9231. And it was RG6 sized, same rough diameter as 1694 although center conductor is a different gauge. I have seen far more 8281/9231 in the analog days than I ever saw RG59 as a program quality video cable. I used RG59 too but only for reference and monitoring feeds.

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post #22 of 23 Old 06-18-2013, 05:17 PM
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My old 1985 Belden catalog lists different RG-59/U co-ax cables at 73, 75 and 80 Ohms.

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post #23 of 23 Old 06-18-2013, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedskater View Post

My old 1985 Belden catalog lists different RG-59/U co-ax cables at 73, 75 and 80 Ohms.

Yup. And somewhere I remember seeing a 72ohm cable as well.

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