Type of speakers for front height? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 11 Old 06-25-2013, 07:58 PM - Thread Starter
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I've read a decent amount about this on here but want to confirm my research.

A direct firing bookshelf speaker would be the ideal speaker type for front height speakers correct?


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post #2 of 11 Old 06-27-2013, 01:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yaomizzle View Post

I've read a decent amount about this on here but want to confirm my research.

A direct firing bookshelf speaker would be the ideal speaker type for front height speakers correct?


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So if I simply say "yes" you will then buy them?

Fwiw, I use decent bookshelf speakers for my wides/heights, look at link in my signature for lots of discussion on this.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1435778/moving-past-7-1-5-1-into-9-1-11-2-upgrading-your-ht-room-via-audyssey-dsx-or-dolby-pl-iiz

Layout:
HT%2520Plan%25202x4%2520Seats-Riser-acoustics%2520Jan-2013_angles.JPG

Some pictures of final install:
_MG_1157.jpg . _MG_1158.jpg

This picture shows the dead flat varnish I coated the re-paint area....looks like I need to put a little more forward, they eyes can't see this or I would have of course done it.
I added that way back in 2008 to help the flat paint burnish issue.
_MG_1163.jpg . _MG_1160.jpg

I lined the sides/back/top of the box with 2" OC703 for resonance control, and to help my bookshelf breath, since it is rear ported.
_MG_1168.jpg



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post #3 of 11 Old 06-27-2013, 03:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yaomizzle View Post

I've read a decent amount about this on here but want to confirm my research.

A direct firing bookshelf speaker would be the ideal speaker type for front height speakers correct?

I will be more specific than that.

Limited practical experience suggests that center channel speakers may be the most ideal for all locations in a surround system but the subwoofer.

On a hunch I replaced my Primus P 363 tower L & R speakers with P 351 surround speakers. I am very pleased with the results. The timbre match between the towers and the surround speakers seemed to be very good, but imaging improved by quite a bit.
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post #4 of 11 Old 06-27-2013, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

Limited practical experience suggests that center channel speakers may be the most ideal for all locations in a surround system but the subwoofer.

Huh? Sounds like it would extend the deficiencies of horizontal center channel design to all channels.
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post #5 of 11 Old 06-27-2013, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Horstkotte View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

Limited practical experience suggests that center channel speakers may be the most ideal for all locations in a surround system but the subwoofer.

Huh? Sounds like it would extend the deficiencies of horizontal center channel design to all channels.

What then are those deficiencies?
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post #6 of 11 Old 06-27-2013, 08:10 PM
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Hi Arny,

So how would all 5/7 channels using P363 (assuming one has space) compare with all channels using P351 ?

Thanks!

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post #7 of 11 Old 06-28-2013, 12:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

What then are those deficiencies?

I think he's talking about the off-axis performance of horizontally mounted MTM center channel speakers.

I would think the answer obvious: Simply turn them vertical and the problem goes away, and since they will be pointed directly at the listening position(s) there shouldn't be any issues.

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post #8 of 11 Old 06-28-2013, 09:16 AM
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post #9 of 11 Old 07-02-2013, 08:24 AM
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After reading up on Front Height at Dolby, http://www.dolby.com/us/en/professional/technology/home-theater/dolby-pro-logic-iiz.html, I would say direct firing are ideal if you don't have rear surrounds, but bipoles could be better if you do have rear surrounds.

Some key things I read were:


"Because it processes only nondirectional sounds for the height channels, ..."


"Supported upmixed output configurations based on 5.1 sources with independent Ls and Rs channels:

-5.1 to 7.1 Height [Ls, Rs to Ls, Rs, Lvh, and Rvh]

-5.1 to 9.1 [Ls, Rs to Ls, Rs, Lrs, Rrs, Lvh, and Rvh] "


"... 7.1 Back sources and offer the following upmixed output configurations:

-7.1 Back to 7.1 Height [Ls, Rs, Lrs, and Rrs to Ls, Rs, Lvh, and Rvh]

-7.1 Back to 9.1 [Ls, Rs to Ls, Rs, Lrs, Rrs, Lvh, and Rvh]"


For 5.1 and 7.1 sources "... L, C, R, and LFE are bypassed."


This leads me to think that the only sounds output to the Front Height Channels are sounds that are being played simulaneously on both Side Surround Channels for 5.1 or 7.1 sources, but if your setup lacks Rear Surrounds and you have a 7.1 source then Rear Surround information will also be used to produce the Front Height channel . It does also mix to them from stereo, probably using the same idea but pulling from the upmixed side surround channels.

So with no rear surrounds direct firing bookshelfs aimed straight back above the viewers heads might be best since you may have sounds that are actually supposed to be behind you (though I can't say for sure without knowing more exact details about the upmixing). If your setup has rear surrounds then bipoles aimed above the viewers heads would create a more spacious sound while still maintaining the height (with the drivers aimed apart horizontally not vertically, obviously).

A 180 degree arranged bipole or dipole type speaker would probably be a bad choice since firing into the front wall may keep the sound farther forward rather than making it come from above your head and might lessen the perceived height as well.

I just upgraded my side surrounds and don't have the room to add rear surrounds so I'm going to try out Front Heights myself. I will be using small direct firing satellite speakers and I plan to aim them straight back over my listening position, mounted above my front L/R speakers, about a foot or two below the ceiling.
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post #10 of 11 Old 07-07-2013, 01:39 PM
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For a look at parameters for High Fronts consult the Dolby website. You may want them angled slightly downward into your MLP and the width will depend on what your room allows within those suggestions. I. Used some Klipsch RS3 centers for mine. the Onkyo 818 handles sound fields effortlessly.

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post #11 of 11 Old 07-07-2013, 04:08 PM
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I've tried both quadpolar (Axiom QS8's) and direct firing and prefer the direct firing. The sound stage seems more natural with the direct firing. In the pic it's hard to tell, but they are angled down, just above ear height in the front row.

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