Active Box HDMI to DVI? - AVS Forum

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Audio Theory, Setup, and Chat

sseverett's Avatar sseverett
05:06 PM Liked: 10
post #1 of 20
07-02-2013 | Posts: 12
Joined: May 2008
I’m looking for an active HDMI to DVI box. All the conversion cables, HDMI to DVI, only strip off the audio but my TV (Mitsubishi WS-55313) has a DVI port that the book says:
DVI-HDTV input terminal is compliant with the EIA-861 standard and is not intended for use with PC.
What happens is that my receiver (Onkyo TX-SR805) will not pass through the HDMI signal into the DVI. I need a box that makes the HDMI think it is going into a HDMI input. The DVI port works great with analog and component signals that are routed out of the receiver’s HDMI port. When it comes to passing through an HDMI video signal the audio works but no picture. Do you guys know of a box to fix my problem?
Thanks,
steve
MarkHotchkiss's Avatar MarkHotchkiss
07:11 PM Liked: 82
post #2 of 20
07-02-2013 | Posts: 1,476
Joined: Mar 2007
Hi Steve,
Quote:
Originally Posted by sseverett View Post

. . . All the conversion cables, HDMI to DVI, only strip off the audio but my TV (Mitsubishi WS-55313) has a DVI port that the book says:
DVI-HDTV input terminal is compliant with the EIA-861 standard and is not intended for use with PC.
Actually, the cable can't "strip-off" audio because the audio in HDMI exists on the same wires as the video, but inserted during the video-retrace intervals. The video portion of HDMI actually is DVI-D, so a cable should be all you need.

However, there are different flavors of DVI. The analog version, DVI-A, is similar to VGA and maybe that is what your TV supports. If so, then there will be no easy way to connect it to HDMI.

Another possibility is that the TV is DVI-D, but that it doesn't support the copy-protection protocol, HDCP, so that the Onkyo will refuse to transmit to it. I think that is unlikely, however, because it would at least allow you to see unprotected content.

Quote:
What happens is that my receiver (Onkyo TX-SR805) will not pass through the HDMI signal into the DVI. I need a box that makes the HDMI think it is going into a HDMI input.
If the TV was DVI-D, then it would look just like HDMI. The Onkyo would not be able to detect a difference between DVI-D and HDMI, as they are the same thing. So I suspect the TV is DVI-A.

Quote:
The DVI port works great with analog and component signals that are routed out of the receiver’s HDMI port. When it comes to passing through an HDMI video signal the audio works but no picture.
I don't understand this part. How are you getting analog out of an HDMI port?
Are you saying the audio does work when input through the TV's DVI port?

Quote:
Do you guys know of a box to fix my problem?
I don't think there is a box for this, but I'm also not sure what the problem is.

Does the TV not have a HDMI input?

Is the reference to EIA-861 a typo? EDIT: OK, I found the reference - It is EIA-861B. Without the "B", my searches weren't very helpful.
Colm's Avatar Colm
08:47 PM Liked: 90
post #3 of 20
07-02-2013 | Posts: 4,652
Joined: Aug 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by sseverett View Post

I’m looking for an active HDMI to DVI box
Why? Doesn't your AVR have a HDMI Audio off setting?

What is the source device? What resolution are you trying to connect with? Your TV only supports 480i, 480p and 1080i.

FWIW you won't be losing anything if you use a component connection, if that is an option for you.

Mark,

This is a very early HD set. It has a Mitsubishi bastardized DVI-D input that supports HDCP and EDID. No HDMI.
PooperScooper's Avatar PooperScooper
04:38 AM Liked: 518
post #4 of 20
07-03-2013 | Posts: 20,024
Joined: Dec 2002
What a perfect excuse to buy a new TV! smile.gif
sseverett's Avatar sseverett
06:16 PM Liked: 10
post #5 of 20
07-03-2013 | Posts: 12
Joined: May 2008
Thanks guys for the help and I’m sorry I was not very clear describing my problem. My TV does not have an HDMI port only a DVI port. I reread the book and the DVI only supports 1080i but if I connect my new Roku 3 directly to the DVI port of my TV (using an HDMI to DVI cable) it plays the 720p or 1080p but no sound. When I plug my receiver (using the HDMI to DVI cable) into the TV and plug my Roku (using an HDMI cable) I lose the picture but have the sound (the receiver is sending the sound to the speakers). If I remove the TV and plug the receiver into a HDMI computer monitor (using a HDMI cable) everything works perfectly. The receiver will passes through the HDMI Roku if it is connected to an HDMI port but not if it is connected to the DVI port.
If I converted the Roku HDMI to component and audio I think it would work but looking on the internet for a box that would do this doesn’t look promising. I didn’t find one that didn’t have a lot of complaints. If you guy have a recommendation for one I’ll go that way.
I was thinking that maybe a HDMI extender or splitter would work. That way the receiver would not see the DVI mismatch and send the HDMI signal on through (I’m guessing here). If I got a splitter I could send the one side of the splitter to the TV DVI and the other side back into the receiver’s HDMI input. Maybe that would satisfy the receiver’s need to have a true HDMI port to send to?
What do you guys suggest?
amirm's Avatar amirm
06:22 PM Liked: 557
post #6 of 20
07-03-2013 | Posts: 18,478
Joined: Jan 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by sseverett View Post

Thanks guys for the help and I’m sorry I was not very clear describing my problem. My TV does not have an HDMI port only a DVI port. I reread the book and the DVI only supports 1080i but if I connect my new Roku 3 directly to the DVI port of my TV (using an HDMI to DVI cable) it plays the 720p or 1080p but no sound.
That is what it should do as DVI does not carry sound.
Quote:
When I plug my receiver (using the HDMI to DVI cable) into the TV and plug my Roku (using an HDMI cable) I lose the picture but have the sound (the receiver is sending the sound to the speakers). If I remove the TV and plug the receiver into a HDMI computer monitor (using a HDMI cable) everything works perfectly. The receiver will passes through the HDMI Roku if it is connected to an HDMI port but not if it is connected to the DVI port.
If I converted the Roku HDMI to component and audio I think it would work but looking on the internet for a box that would do this doesn’t look promising. I didn’t find one that didn’t have a lot of complaints. If you guy have a recommendation for one I’ll go that way.
I was thinking that maybe a HDMI extender or splitter would work. That way the receiver would not see the DVI mismatch and send the HDMI signal on through (I’m guessing here). If I got a splitter I could send the one side of the splitter to the TV DVI and the other side back into the receiver’s HDMI input. Maybe that would satisfy the receiver’s need to have a true HDMI port to send to?
What do you guys suggest?
This is classic HDMI/DVI compatibility problem. You are better off saving your money on gadgets to fix it and do as Pooperscooper says and buy a new TV smile.gif.
sseverett's Avatar sseverett
03:30 AM Liked: 10
post #7 of 20
07-04-2013 | Posts: 12
Joined: May 2008
How can I junk this TV? I paid $3,000 for it; it’s 55” and it still works great.
amirm's Avatar amirm
01:38 PM Liked: 557
post #8 of 20
07-04-2013 | Posts: 18,478
Joined: Jan 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by sseverett View Post

How can I junk this TV? I paid $3,000 for it; it’s 55” and it still works great.
Please allow us to spend your money. biggrin.gif You have a rear projection TV. A plasma such as this Penny will run circles around it: http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/panasonic-tc-p55st60/4505-6482_7-35567256.html. Advertise your current set and you may be able to get $100 to $150 out of it.

Give yourself a summer present and free us from having to troubleshoot an HDMI problem remotely with no instrumentation. biggrin.gifbiggrin.gif
Kilian.ca's Avatar Kilian.ca
01:32 AM Liked: 36
post #9 of 20
07-05-2013 | Posts: 1,901
Joined: Mar 2007
You haven't exhausted all avenues of troubleshooting. The observations so far don't add up.

It's strange that the Roku 3 outputs 720p or 1080p and the Mits only accepts 480i/p and 1080i (I've read the manual) and yet it produces a picture with direct connection. So what exactly is the Roku sending? How come EDID would allow it?

Via a receiver then there's no picture. So what's happening? Does the receiver send 1080p out? Is 24p or Deep Color on? There is picture with analogue inputs, so HDMI-DVI from receiver is working when there's no HDCP or different resolution? Your Mits is HDCP compliant. In any case there are boxes that deal with ('strip') HDCP if that's the problem.

If a direct connection works then it's your best chance. How about a HDMI splitter?
Tulpa's Avatar Tulpa
08:16 AM Liked: 60
post #10 of 20
07-05-2013 | Posts: 10,026
Joined: Jan 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by sseverett View Post

How can I junk this TV? I paid $3,000 for it; it’s 55” and it still works great.

Ah, the common lament of the modern consumer. You're not alone. I've had people ask why they had to junk their circa 2004 non-HDMI receivers when they couldn't get their PS3 to work with it. Don't ask about the people who want their 36" tube TV with analog only tuner to work without a cable box. rolleyes.gif

Fortunately, I think there are ways to get yours to work. At least for now until they come up with something else to make your TV "obsolete."
arnyk's Avatar arnyk
08:38 AM Liked: 1205
post #11 of 20
07-05-2013 | Posts: 14,530
Joined: Oct 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by sseverett View Post

How can I junk this TV? I paid $3,000 for it; it’s 55” and it still works great.

The value of tech products is not what you paid for them, but what their replacement cost is. If its the TV I think it is a few years back I bought its replacement (but 60') for about $800. If I had shopped around I might have saved another $100 or 2. Not only that, but mine has 3 HDMI inputs.

Bottom line is that your $3k TV has a practical value of a $100, more or less on the best day of its life. IOW, it is nearly a throw-away.
Colm's Avatar Colm
01:47 PM Liked: 90
post #12 of 20
07-05-2013 | Posts: 4,652
Joined: Aug 2002
Yep...Econ 101...sunk costs are irrelevant when it comes to decision making about future actions. However, the cost of replacing the old TV is relevant.
sseverett's Avatar sseverett
04:29 AM Liked: 10
post #13 of 20
07-06-2013 | Posts: 12
Joined: May 2008
Kilian I agree with you, “I’ve not exhausted all avenues of troubleshooting.”

Here are the facts:
Roku 3 into DVI works
DVD (Panasonic DMP-BD30) into DVI works
Receiver (sending out Component and Composite) into DVI works
Receiver (sending out HDMI) into DVI does NOT work
Receiver (sending out HDMI) into HDMI monitor WORKS.

I’m not sure why the different screen resolutions are working but they are. The DVD player is set to automatic and I’m assuming it is outputting 1080i through the HDMI port. I’ve tried both the 720p and 1080p on the output of the Roku and they both work going to the DVI port. The receiver doesn’t give me any option on HDMI out only a HDMI setting. After talking with you guys I am convinced that it is a HDCP problem. The only stripper that appears to really work is the HDfury but that is expensive and changes the signal to component.

At one site they claim that a splitter (see link below) will strip off the HDCP and I think that is what you are saying.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Port-1-x-4-Audio-Video-1080P-HD-HDMI-Splitter-Amplifier-Multiplier-Box-/220864833576

If you guys think this will work that is exactly what I’ll do and keep my piece of junk TV another couple of years.
Thanks
PooperScooper's Avatar PooperScooper
07:50 AM Liked: 518
post #14 of 20
07-06-2013 | Posts: 20,024
Joined: Dec 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by sseverett View Post

How can I junk this TV? I paid $3,000 for it; it’s 55” and it still works great.
Please allow us to spend your money. biggrin.gif You have a rear projection TV. A plasma such as this Penny will run circles around it: http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/panasonic-tc-p55st60/4505-6482_7-35567256.html. Advertise your current set and you may be able to get $100 to $150 out of it.

Give yourself a summer present and free us from having to troubleshoot an HDMI problem remotely with no instrumentation. biggrin.gifbiggrin.gif
At 250 lbs plus the bulky dimensions, he may be lucky just to have somebody come pick it up for free!

sseverett, unless you paid to have the TV professionally calibrated, you're most likely are looking at a very soft picture (CRT convergence). And 7" CRTs can't resolve 720p or 1080p and do a half-axx job on 1080i.
sseverett's Avatar sseverett
09:25 AM Liked: 10
post #15 of 20
07-06-2013 | Posts: 12
Joined: May 2008
I’m not in disagreement with you. You are correct it is heavy and cannot compete with today’s TV. The Mitsubishi gives me a setup for CRT convergence, which I do set on occasion, and the picture is still softer than a new large TV; you are right.
You are arguing points that are not influencing my decision. I have an expensive TV that I am unwilling to part with only because there is better technology available. I would never replace this TV with one of the same kind but would invest in one like you are suggesting but for right now I am happy with it.
What I want to do is spend $50 and run my Roku 3 on this TV. I can buy an old, (discontinued) used Roku XD/S that will give me component out for $70 on Amazon and that would work. What I would like to do is fix my receiver so that it will output HDMI to my TV. Then I can hook up everything HDMI through my receiver and watch it on my TV giving me a few more years of service.
amirm's Avatar amirm
10:02 AM Liked: 557
post #16 of 20
07-06-2013 | Posts: 18,478
Joined: Jan 2002
Alright, since you insist, the problem seems to be your AVR and HDCP over DVI. See http://www.avsforum.com/t/867002/hdmi-issue-with-onkyo-805

Then again, without instrumentation it could be any kind of DVI incompatibility.

Note that any box that strips HDMI and still outputs HDMI can itself be source of additional HDMI compatibility problems. Many of those no name boxes on ebay will have such problems. So be prepared to lose the money you spend toward them. It will be a flip of coin if it works and solves your problem. You are really shooting in the dark and hence the continued advice to use this as an opportunity to upgrade your display. If everything worked, you could continue using it until it rotted. But you want to do something new that requires extra hardware, expense and aggravation to make it work.
Kilian.ca's Avatar Kilian.ca
09:47 PM Liked: 36
post #17 of 20
07-06-2013 | Posts: 1,901
Joined: Mar 2007
steve,

Can you not set video output resolution on the Onkyo? I can with my 818.

Have a look at this also about HDCP stripping:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1474842/connecting-dvdo-edge-output-to-bmd-decklink-hd#post_23375682

If you do an advanced search in the receiver's forum using 'HDCP' in title only, you'll get lots of threads on HDMI handshake issues between HDMI devices. This is one of the big threads suggesting the use of a HDMI switch:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1096050/solution-to-hdmi-1080p-receiver-display-hdcp-handshake-problems

What I had in mind is not using a splitter between AVR and TV but between Roku and AVR and TV. It splits (duplicates) the HDMI signal, one goes to TV directly for video and the other to AVR for audio. Not dealing with HDCP specifically.

I used to have a Panasonic BD30 and HDMI-DVI worked with my old DVI Pioneer plasma (it's not even supposed to be HDCP complicant!). Another Sony BDP and DVDO video processor also worked. Occasionally I get the HDCP warning green screen but all I need to do is reboot the TV. That's why I think direct connection would be your best bet, and worth trying if you can get a HDMI splitter (direct route) or switcher (between AVR and TV) that you can return if it doesn't work.
sseverett's Avatar sseverett
04:55 AM Liked: 10
post #18 of 20
07-07-2013 | Posts: 12
Joined: May 2008
I understand and thank you guys for the wise advice.

The safest choice for me is to buy a used Roku XD/S and a component cable to solve my problem and avoid the HDMI nightmare. Another choice is to buy the Sewell powered HDMI Splitter which seems to have a good chance of working in my system because everything in it is HDCP; it just doesn’t communicate. If I take the chancy way and buy the splitter I will try to use it between the AVR and the TV, if I can, because my TV only has 1 DVI. This will keep me from changing my AVR and TV connection to component.

I do appreciate you guys being honest with me and trying to keep me from a path of much frustration. This whole Hollywood/Intel problem has angered me and I would very much like to do something to make them impotent in my life but I must be realistic and live within a budget. My old TV is certainly not as crisp as a new LED HDTV but then again once I passed 55 nothing I see is very crisp!
Thanks,
steve
sseverett's Avatar sseverett
05:41 PM Liked: 10
post #19 of 20
07-25-2013 | Posts: 12
Joined: May 2008
update:
I tried the Sewell powered HDMI Splitter between the AVR and TV in hopes that it would enable my AVR to pass through the HDMI video signal to my TV. It didn’t work. I tried KIlian.ca idea to split the signal coming from the Roku sending one HDMI to the TV and the other HDMI to the AVR for audio. It didn’t work either; a wasted $25! I bought a used Roku XD/S on Ebay and a component cable from Roku and did away with any HDMI. My DVD and Roku outputs to the AVR through component and the output from the AVR to the TV uses component also. I now have everything working.
It was a $100 mistake that could have been used to purchase a new TV just like PooperScooper and amirm suggested.
Thanks,
steve
Tulpa's Avatar Tulpa
12:38 PM Liked: 60
post #20 of 20
07-26-2013 | Posts: 10,026
Joined: Jan 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by sseverett View Post

I have an expensive TV that I am unwilling to part with only because there is better technology available.

I think everyone sympathizes with your point. I myself soldiered on with a 2007 720p DLP while new 1080p flatscreens came out. I didn't pay as much as you did, but it was a lot of money to me, and I couldn't justify getting a plasma or LCD, even as they outclassed my TV, even when upgrading to blu-ray.

Then came smart TVs with the ability to view just about anything on the web (where everything eventually ends up anyway.) That sold me, and I pulled the trigger on a LED smart TV last night. It's all about priorities. Unfortunately, sometimes the industry makes the decisions for us.
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