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post #1 of 18 Old 07-29-2013, 07:24 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm going to get some serious gear soon and I have to upgrade my current shotgun.

I'll be shooting a lot of interior dialogue shots in small to medium sized rooms. From what I've been told, a shotgun mic like the MKH 416 is terrible for indoors, correct?

What's the best indoor mic for $1,000 and under?
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post #2 of 18 Old 07-30-2013, 08:44 AM
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If I were you, I would talk to someone at a company that specializes in motion-picture pro-audio equipment.

If you call zzounds, they may be able to refer you to the right company or perhaps sell you what you need.

Is this going to be XXX-rated...lol??
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post #3 of 18 Old 07-30-2013, 08:52 AM - Thread Starter
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What about the NTG-3 vs the Audio-Technica AT4053b?
Are either one of those better than the other or are they evenly matched?
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post #4 of 18 Old 07-30-2013, 11:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acuriousman View Post

I'm going to get some serious gear soon and I have to upgrade my current shotgun.

I'll be shooting a lot of interior dialogue shots in small to medium sized rooms. From what I've been told, a shotgun mic like the MKH 416 is terrible for indoors, correct?

What's the best indoor mic for $1,000 and under?

If you are working in arbitrary small rooms, the best indoor mic for sound quality would be something like a Countryman E6 with a good wireless system attached.
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post #5 of 18 Old 07-31-2013, 12:03 AM
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Originally Posted by acuriousman View Post

What about the NTG-3 vs the Audio-Technica AT4053b?
Are either one of those better than the other or are they evenly matched?

You are not comparing apples to apples. The NTG3 is a shotgun (designed to be used from a distance), and the AT4053b is a supercardioid (designed to be hand held).

Shotguns are for use outdoors and in really big rooms.

Hypercardioids aren't bad for live performance work, but they are going to end up being on-screen for video and they tie up the hands unless you put them on a boom. Got a boom operator? Usually boom mics are omnis because of control issues.

A micro headset mic like an E6 will also be on-screen, but its hands-free and small enough to coceal.

Do tell more about your application.
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post #6 of 18 Old 07-31-2013, 08:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

You are not comparing apples to apples. The NTG3 is a shotgun (designed to be used from a distance), and the AT4053b is a supercardioid (designed to be hand held).

Shotguns are for use outdoors and in really big rooms.

Hypercardioids aren't bad for live performance work, but they are going to end up being on-screen for video and they tie up the hands unless you put them on a boom. Got a boom operator? Usually boom mics are omnis because of control issues.

A micro headset mic like an E6 will also be on-screen, but its hands-free and small enough to coceal.

Do tell more about your application.

Interesting. I've heard a few people recommend the Rode but quite a few more recommend the AT.
I'm guessing because the RODE is more of a shotgun like the 416 like you said.

My only fear is the 4053 might be too bassy...

I'll be having this mic set a foot or less away from the person talking in a kitchen style room. Somewhat small space.
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post #7 of 18 Old 07-31-2013, 08:27 PM
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For something like that I'd probably get one of the Rode ribbons, any of the medium-large condensers (I like AKG, if not a C414 maybe just a C4000), etc. Since it is in a small (very live?) room and only for vocals (yes?) then you do not need, or probably even want, a full-range mic. You might get by with just a Shure SM-58 (or Beta-58).

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post #8 of 18 Old 07-31-2013, 10:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

For something like that I'd probably get one of the Rode ribbons, any of the medium-large condensers (I like AKG, if not a C414 maybe just a C4000), etc. Since it is in a small (very live?) room and only for vocals (yes?) then you do not need, or probably even want, a full-range mic. You might get by with just a Shure SM-58 (or Beta-58).

Really? Why wouldn't I want something like the Audio Technica or Rode models I listed? Do they not work well from that close?
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post #9 of 18 Old 08-01-2013, 07:08 AM
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They'd work fine, I just think they are probably overkill if you are just recording a person speaking. Dialogue is not all that demanding.

The Rode NTG-3 is a shotgun and you certainly wouldn't need that from 1' away.
The Audio-Technica AT4053b is a hypercardiod and I would choose that over the NTG-3 for this application.

I just happen to like large-diaphragm mics and so a cheap mid/large unit is what I would probably choose, but it depends on what frequency range, dynamic range, noise (side/rear) rejection, etc. you are looking for. If it is just someone speaking into a mic, a dynamic Shure or similar should work fine and would probably better reject noise (due partly to its lower sensitivity).

I have $1k+ mics, but would probably just throw a cheap Shure out for dialogue. If I wanted to capture a nice deep announcer's voice, one of the large-diaphragms (AKG C3000, C4000, C414, Neumann, Sony KSM-xx, etc.) or maybe a Royer ribbon would be there.

If you are mounting on a video camera, Rode has several nice models for that, mostly shotguns to focus tightly on the speaker (good even in small rooms to capture dialogue without peripheral noise). As do other companies, natch.

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post #10 of 18 Old 08-01-2013, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acuriousman View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

You are not comparing apples to apples. The NTG3 is a shotgun (designed to be used from a distance), and the AT4053b is a supercardioid (designed to be hand held).

Shotguns are for use outdoors and in really big rooms.

Hypercardioids aren't bad for live performance work, but they are going to end up being on-screen for video and they tie up the hands unless you put them on a boom. Got a boom operator? Usually boom mics are omnis because of control issues.

A micro headset mic like an E6 will also be on-screen, but its hands-free and small enough to coceal.

Do tell more about your application.

Interesting. I've heard a few people recommend the Rode but quite a few more recommend the AT.

What can I say? I suspect that the people who like the Rode shotgun mount it on their camera and mic the person speaking from several feet away. The people who like the AT probably use it as a hand held vocal mic.
Quote:
I'm guessing because the RODE is more of a shotgun like the 416 like you said.

The Rode isn't "More of a shotgun" it is a dyed-in-the-wool shotgun. Saying that the Rode is "More of a shotgun" is like saying that Gwyneth Paltrow is more of a girl. ;-)
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My only fear is the 4053 might be too bassy...

Pretty much guaranteed if you are using it really close. If vocal mics that are too bassy are your fear, then try a Electrovoice RE20.
Quote:
I'll be having this mic set a foot or less away from the person talking in a kitchen style room. Somewhat small space.


You seem to describing an application something like this:




and

here's a picture of the RE20:

.

Hope I don't fake you out by showing you the RE20 in its shiny finish (for radio) and also in its matte finish (For video and movies).

The RE20 is highly priced for voice applications particularly spoken word, because its bass response doesn't change very much whether you work it close or far.

A supercardioid is the exact opposite - inherently sensitive to working distance. Singers like them because you can play them like an musical instrument with a bass control by working them close or distant.
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post #11 of 18 Old 08-01-2013, 11:00 AM
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Finally, a question in my wheelhouse ... ok, here goes ..;

uh, just listen to Arny and Don. smile.gif

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post #12 of 18 Old 08-01-2013, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

The RE20 is highly priced for voice applications particularly spoken word, because its bass response doesn't change very much whether you work it close or far.

A supercardioid is the exact opposite - inherently sensitive to working distance. Singers like them because you can play them like an musical instrument with a bass control by working them close or distant.

"prized" smile.gif It's available under $500 USD from many sources. The rest, I agree with!

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #13 of 18 Old 08-01-2013, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

The RE20 is highly priced for voice applications particularly spoken word, because its bass response doesn't change very much whether you work it close or far.

A supercardioid is the exact opposite - inherently sensitive to working distance. Singers like them because you can play them like an musical instrument with a bass control by working them close or distant.

"prized" smile.gif It's available under $500 USD from many sources. The rest, I agree with!

YUP typo. They are only about half the OP's maximum price range.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/RE20
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post #14 of 18 Old 08-01-2013, 11:18 AM
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Another Sweetwater guy, knew I liked ya', Arny! smile.gif

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #15 of 18 Old 08-01-2013, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

Another Sweetwater guy, knew I liked ya', Arny! smile.gif

Sweetwater's great.

Either of you ever check out their annual Gear-Fest? I attended last year, a mixed bag, but worth the 2.5 hour drive each way. Many knowledgeable mfr reps, etc, some absolute steals on gear, and a potpourri of used stuff.


Also, the RE20 is oft utilized in studio sessions on kick drum.

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post #16 of 18 Old 08-01-2013, 07:12 PM
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Too far for me... I have been working with them for well over a decade now (since the 90's).

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #17 of 18 Old 08-02-2013, 07:45 AM
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Too far for me... I have been working with them for well over a decade now (since the 90's).

I too have dealt with them for quite some time, however without knowing where they were located until a couple years ago.

Sometime 2-3 years ago, we were picking my son up from camp a few hours from home, and we stumbled upon their mammoth facility. It's quite impressive really. They have full tilt working studios, from recording thru the mastering and production. A great performance theater, nice lecture halls, café, etc. They're obviously proud of the place, and like to show it off. They bring in quality guest speakers put on seminars/workshops, etc., all complimentary.

Their Gear Fest is akin to a tradeshow, with all the gear displayed by the manufacturer, except you buy the items (deeply discounted) thru Sweetwater. It's nice being able to interact with sales reps, engineers, techs, owner operators of the audio equipment. All the items I was interested in were all below the lowest price at which I'd ever seen the item offered, so restraint is in order wink.gif

I've done a lot of business with Musician's Friend, up until a few months ago when the really burned me on an item I needed. They ordered it, custom piece so I need this thing in a few weeks, and I expected the full 4 week period they stated for delivery. Four weeks,.. nothing, a few days later I check in, ... "oh, that item we no longer carry, we're sorry for not contacting you". mad.gif Up to that point, I'd not had any significant complaints. Haven't been back. Parts Express is great, as is Sweetwater. Hell, Musician's Friend was fine up 'til then.

I digress ...

Thanks

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post #18 of 18 Old 08-02-2013, 11:32 AM
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I am familiar with their facilities, just haven't been there (cam close to running over once on a trip back to MO, but IN still too far, durn it!) Their facilities have grown a lot of the years, though they started as a small recording studio IIRC. Various members (some of whom I have worked with through the years) have done some major studios and sound systems across the country (sending Sweetwater personnel on-site).

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