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post #31 of 60 Old 09-22-2013, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by FMW View Post

If your stereo music sounds like it is coming from two points then, A. The room is too highly damped and B. The speakers are too far apart.
Or C. no surrounds. Speakers placed in front of you cannot deliver recorded ambience from around you, they way you hear it in real life.

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post #32 of 60 Old 09-22-2013, 04:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by FMW View Post

If your stereo music sounds like it is coming from two points then, A. The room is too highly damped and B. The speakers are too far apart.

I don't listen to music with surround sound. Only two channel.
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I'm not budging from 5.1. Period.

Why is that? I love the extend surround sound that is available now. I wish there was a cheaper way of matrixing more channels for an even better sounding surround sound field.
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post #33 of 60 Old 09-22-2013, 04:53 PM
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I'm not budging from 5.1. Period.

No one's forcing you to. Every receiver has the ability to play fewer speakers than the maximum they use, allowing you to shut off heights, wides, all surrounds, and the center, not to mention the sub if you want. No reason to believe this won't continue.

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post #34 of 60 Old 09-22-2013, 04:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Or C. no surrounds. Speakers placed in front of you cannot deliver recorded ambience from around you, they way you hear it in real life.

Funny you say that because I never have believed in sound bars. How the hell can that produce surround sound if it is directly in front of you? I have never looked into them because they seem like a gimmick to me. Sorry it just reminded me of sound bars.

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post #35 of 60 Old 09-22-2013, 05:00 PM
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How the hell can that produce surround sound if it is directly in front of you?

They have to bounce it off the side and back walls. It requires a certain type of room to work, with parallel (and equidistant) sides and a perpendicular back wall.

They do work if they're in the right room, but not many people have that type of room, so they're not for everyone.
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I have never looked into them because they seem like a gimmick to me.

If they were just a gimmick, they would have faded not long after being introduced. They do work on some acoustic principles.

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post #36 of 60 Old 09-22-2013, 05:10 PM - Thread Starter
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So I guess that the sound is bouncing all over the room then.......That is exactly the opposite of what I want in my theater lol. I guess that is a cheaper way of having surround sound but just doesnt seem ideal to me.

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post #37 of 60 Old 09-22-2013, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Pain Infliction View Post

So I guess that the sound is bouncing all over the room then.......That is exactly the opposite of what I want in my theater lol. I guess that is a cheaper way of having surround sound but just doesnt seem ideal to me.

The 85" prototype|proof-of-concept|"roadshow" UHDTV from NHK pictured at this 2011 EBU demo (link) supposedly provides full surround sound playback from 22.2 channel input in rooms where installing 22 separate satellite speakers is impractical; instead, it uses 100+ "small" speaker units in a frame around all four sides of the display--plus some proprietary active-DSP|soundbar-style technology--to deliver "the same" playback soundfield to the audience. (Plus I'm guessing there might also have been a separate sub or two!) cool.gif


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post #38 of 60 Old 09-22-2013, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Pain Infliction View Post

So I guess that the sound is bouncing all over the room then.......That is exactly the opposite of what I want in my theater lol.

Sound is bouncing all over the room no matter what setup you have, unless your setup is in an anechoic chamber (hint; it's not.) Your sound treatments take care of the more undesirable parts of that, but you need some bounce in order to sound halfway natural.

Soundbars just take advantage of the reflections to do what they need to do.
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I guess that is a cheaper way of having surround sound but just doesnt seem ideal to me.

It's not ideal, but a solution for those who don't want to/can't run wires for whatever reason.

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post #39 of 60 Old 09-22-2013, 11:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Pain Infliction View Post

I guess that is a cheaper way of having surround sound but just doesnt seem ideal to me.
Not intended to be ideal, just better than the TV's built-in speakers.

If you want to hear sounds around you, then nothing beats placing speakers around you. Ditto for wanting to hear sounds above you.

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post #40 of 60 Old 09-23-2013, 01:54 AM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Or C. no surrounds. Speakers placed in front of you cannot deliver recorded ambience from around you, they way you hear it in real life.

Where do you think "ambience" comes from. It comes from sound that originates in front of you and is reflected back to you.
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post #41 of 60 Old 09-23-2013, 01:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Pain Infliction View Post

I don't listen to music with surround sound. Only two channel.

In fact I find surround music unsettling and the surround element dstracting.
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Why is that? I love the extend surround sound that is available now. I wish there was a cheaper way of matrixing more channels for an even better sounding surround sound field.

I don't believe adding more surround speakers makes a meaningful difference in the experience. My purpose, after all, is to watch a movie with good sound reproduction, not to engage in adding gimmicks.
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post #42 of 60 Old 09-23-2013, 06:32 AM - Thread Starter
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I don't believe adding more surround speakers makes a meaningful difference in the experience. My purpose, after all, is to watch a movie with good sound reproduction, not to engage in adding gimmicks.

So you think anything above 5.1 is a gimmick? I am pretty sure you have heard a 7.1 setup before (or at least I hope you have after you statement) and you do not feel it has a better surround field?

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post #43 of 60 Old 09-23-2013, 07:08 AM
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Yes I think it is a gimmick. Surround information exists less than 1% of the time overall and normally for short durations. The two surround channels handle that minor issue to my satisfaction. For me the loss of the two surround channels wouldn't be much of a deal.
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post #44 of 60 Old 09-23-2013, 07:50 AM - Thread Starter
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What about the loss of 4 or 6 and possibly 8 in the near future? That is fine though and I am glad that you are satisfied with what you have. I am not satisfied however and I am spending a lot more money to get the extra sound field. To each their own, right?

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post #45 of 60 Old 09-23-2013, 07:55 AM
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Right. I'm not trying to convert you. I just view it as less important than you do.
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post #46 of 60 Old 09-23-2013, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW View Post

Where do you think "ambience" comes from. It comes from sound that originates in front of you and is reflected back to you.
The direct sound from the performers and the reflect sound from the venue are distinct auditory events, separated by both time and direction. Ambience comes from around you. The reflections that contribute to spaciousness come from the sides, not the same direction as the performers. When these reflections are recorded and played back using only 2 speakers, they originate from the same direction as the performers (exact same direction, since they are being reproduced by the exact same loudspeakers).
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I don't believe adding more surround speakers makes a meaningful difference in the experience. My purpose, after all, is to watch a movie with good sound reproduction, not to engage in adding gimmicks.
What is it about a second pair of surrounds that crosses your threshold of gimmickery that a single pair of surrounds does not?

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post #47 of 60 Old 09-23-2013, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by FMW View Post

Yes I think it is a gimmick. Surround information exists less than 1% of the time overall and normally for short durations. The two surround channels handle that minor issue to my satisfaction. For me the loss of the two surround channels wouldn't be much of a deal.

Definitely you are entitled to your subjective opinion.
How much time have you been in a 7.1 or 9.1 room to make such statements?
Where do you live?

I've gone thru 5.1 to 7.1 and now 11.3, and each did add incremental improvements to the surround field and the overall HT experience.
Possible I might be having a HEMI meet next year, Spring or Fall of 2014, stop by.
Front image:
HT%252011.3%2520cover%2520off%2520Pano-b.jpg

Rear image:
_MG_5464.jpg
Room specs:
Front Proj: Sony VPL-VW60 + a-lens UH380 on slide, with Darbee Darblet video processor
A/V: Denon AVR-4520CI + Emotiva XPA-3 amp
Screen: 130" DIY 2.35:1 curved screen
11.3 speakers: Paradigm Monitor 9's for front, CC-390 center, 4 ADP-390 for rear and back surround, Monitor bookshelf for wides/fronts.
LFE subwoofer: 4 x 15" IB array on Sub1, plus 18" and 15" Stereo Integrity cubes on Sub2

Subjectively I've used my 4520CI and tried AudysseyDSX vs DolbyPL IIz vs DTS Neo:X™ , and honestly I've settled on NeoX as my default codec for 11.3 processing.

I truly love the enveloping surround sound of 11.3
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post #48 of 60 Old 09-23-2013, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post

Definitely you are entitled to your subjective opinion.
How much time have you been in a 7.1 or 9.1 room to make such statements?
Where do you live?

I've gone thru 5.1 to 7.1 and now 11.3, and each did add incremental improvements to the surround field and the overall HT experience.
Possible I might be having a HEMI meet next year, Spring or Fall of 2014, stop by.
Front image:
HT%252011.3%2520cover%2520off%2520Pano-b.jpg

Rear image:
_MG_5464.jpg
Room specs:
Front Proj: Sony VPL-VW60 + a-lens UH380 on slide, with Darbee Darblet video processor
A/V: Denon AVR-4520CI + Emotiva XPA-3 amp
Screen: 130" DIY 2.35:1 curved screen
11.3 speakers: Paradigm Monitor 9's for front, CC-390 center, 4 ADP-390 for rear and back surround, Monitor bookshelf for wides/fronts.
LFE subwoofer: 4 x 15" IB array on Sub1, plus 18" and 15" Stereo Integrity cubes on Sub2

Subjectively I've used my 4520CI and tried AudysseyDSX vs DolbyPL IIz vs DTS Neo:X™ , and honestly I've settled on NeoX as my default codec for 11.3 processing.

I truly love the enveloping surround sound of 11.3

All opinions are subjective. Otherwise they aren't opinions. Sorry but I don't care about surround sound as much as you do. Nothing personal.
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post #49 of 60 Old 09-23-2013, 11:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey Mike...What are you using to power the last 2 channels that your avr does not power? I am assuming that you are using the XPA3 to power your fonts and center.

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post #50 of 60 Old 09-23-2013, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by FMW View Post

I don't believe adding more surround speakers makes a meaningful difference in the experience. My purpose, after all, is to watch a movie with good sound reproduction, not to engage in adding gimmicks.

 

You won’t be going to see any movies mixed in Dolby Atmos then?  ;)

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post #51 of 60 Old 09-23-2013, 01:25 PM
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Yes I think it is a gimmick. Surround information exists less than 1% of the time overall and normally for short durations. The two surround channels handle that minor issue to my satisfaction. For me the loss of the two surround channels wouldn't be much of a deal.

 

I think I have misunderstood you. 

 

"Surround information exists less than 1% of the time overall and normally for short durations."

 

Not on the movies I have it doesn't. On some movies the surrounds are in almost continuous use, for ambient effects for example, or for direct effects (the proverbial 'door slam') or for music that has some of the content reproduced from the surrounds to add to spaciousness. 

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post #52 of 60 Old 09-23-2013, 06:36 PM
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All opinions are subjective. Otherwise they aren't opinions. Sorry but I don't care about surround sound as much as you do. Nothing personal.
I agree FMW, that we agree to disagree on the importance of more than 5.1 surround sound as mutual respect.
Since Pain Inflection has posted his thoughts - as the OP, and he wants "more" surround sound, I suggest you move on from this thread, no need to troll it any more, since you are not adding to it.
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Hey Mike...What are you using to power the last 2 channels that your avr does not power? I am assuming that you are using the XPA3 to power your fonts and center.
Yes, the XPA-3 is powering my front mains, the Denon 4520 has 9 assignable amps, so it handles all the surrounds.
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post #53 of 60 Old 09-23-2013, 07:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Oh you can assign the amps. That is freakin sweet! I didn't know you could do that.

MY THEATER......The Thompson Theater 11.9 channels

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post #54 of 60 Old 09-23-2013, 09:14 PM
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Mike,

I've seen threads of your theater as it has progressed over the years, including all the DIY, and it has really turned out nice. I'm sure you are thrilled. I bet movies sound phenomenal.

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post #55 of 60 Old 09-24-2013, 12:55 AM
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I think I have misunderstood you. 

"Surround information exists less than 1% of the time overall and normally for short durations."

Not on the movies I have it doesn't. On some movies the surrounds are in almost continuous use, for ambient effects for example, or for direct effects (the proverbial 'door slam') or for music that has some of the content reproduced from the surrounds to add to spaciousness. 

I guess I only notice them when the door slams.
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post #56 of 60 Old 09-24-2013, 06:21 AM
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

I think I have misunderstood you. 

"Surround information exists less than 1% of the time overall and normally for short durations."

Not on the movies I have it doesn't. On some movies the surrounds are in almost continuous use, for ambient effects for example, or for direct effects (the proverbial 'door slam') or for music that has some of the content reproduced from the surrounds to add to spaciousness. 

I guess I only notice them when the door slams.

 

It could be that your system isn't properly set up then. Almost all recent movies have tons of information in the surround channels.

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post #57 of 60 Old 09-24-2013, 06:50 AM
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I'll simply agree. I've been shown the door by Dudex. I answer his question and he accuses me of trolling. Bye.
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post #58 of 60 Old 09-24-2013, 09:06 AM
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Now, now boys, can't we just get along.

Don't rebut!

JUST GET ALONG!

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post #59 of 60 Old 09-24-2013, 04:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Now, now boys, can't we just get along.

Don't rebut!

JUST GET ALONG!


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post #60 of 60 Old 09-29-2013, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Collins View Post

Now, now boys, can't we just get along.

Don't rebut!

JUST GET ALONG!


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FMW - Peace -
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