9.2 setup questions. Possibly 11.2 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 60 Old 08-14-2013, 05:59 AM - Thread Starter
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I am about to upgrade my setup and have a few questions. I was really thinking about doing a 9.2 setup because I don't really have the room for front wides.

So, if I installed the front height speakers, should I put them directly above the front speakers or would moving them them closer to the middle of the room make them sound better placed?

If I went with front wides, would installing in-ceiling speakers closer to the middle of the room be ideal? I just need a little bit of help with the placement. If I can go 11.2, I would, but I just do not think that I can with my layout. My front speakers are all the way against the right and left walls.

Here is a pic of what I am working with. It is a side shot because I do not have a straight shot. I thought that I did.


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post #2 of 60 Old 08-14-2013, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Pain Infliction View Post

So, if I installed the front height speakers, should I put them directly above the front speakers or would moving them them closer to the middle of the room make them sound better placed?
I would put them between the front and side speakers, mounted as high up as possible.
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If I went with front wides, would installing in-ceiling speakers closer to the middle of the room be ideal?
Would the in-ceiling speakers be heights or wides?

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post #3 of 60 Old 08-14-2013, 11:33 AM - Thread Starter
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I would put them between the front and side speakers, mounted as high up as possible.
Would the in-ceiling speakers be heights or wides?

The side speakers being the wides?

I wanted to make the wides and heights in ceiling.

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post #4 of 60 Old 08-14-2013, 12:02 PM
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The side speakers being the wides?
No, side speakers being the ones at your sides. Wide speakers are the forward of the listening position, placed a little outside the fronts.
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I wanted to make the wides and heights in ceiling.
It makes sense to have heights in-ceiling (those sounds are supposed to come from above you), but why would you also put your wides up there? That would be like putting surrounds on your front wall (those sounds aren't supposed to come from that direction).

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post #5 of 60 Old 08-14-2013, 12:37 PM
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Uniquely in my personal experience, the Illusonic Immersive Audio Processor (link) supports separate "front wide" and "height front wide" speaker pairs (note that use of the height pair requires that the corresponding middle layer "front wide" speaker pair be installed too).

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post #6 of 60 Old 08-14-2013, 12:52 PM - Thread Starter
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No, side speakers being the ones at your sides. Wide speakers are the forward of the listening position, placed a little outside the fronts.
It makes sense to have heights in-ceiling (those sounds are supposed to come from above you), but why would you also put your wides up there? That would be like putting surrounds on your front wall (those sounds aren't supposed to come from that direction).
I was just getting confused with the "sides" you were saying because I always referred to them as surrounds and the speakers in the back as surround backs. The reason I was asking about putting them up there is because I have no room for them. I didn't know if putting them in the ceiling would be ideal. I know the heights go up high.

Now as far as the height going in the ceiling, let me ask my question a little different because I didn't ask it correctly. Should I move them closer to the middle of the side walls (not the front wall) so it sounds like it is coming directly over me such as when it rains or a helicopter flys over. Or is it best to have at the front sound stage. I am just trying to get creative with the sound to make it most realistic.

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post #7 of 60 Old 08-14-2013, 01:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Uniquely in my personal experience, the Illusonic Immersive Audio Processor (link) supports separate "front wide" and "height front wide" speaker pairs (note that use of the height pair requires that the corresponding middle layer "front wide" speaker pair be installed too).

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Is this available in the US?

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post #8 of 60 Old 08-14-2013, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pain Infliction View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post

Uniquely in my personal experience, the Illusonic Immersive Audio Processor (link) supports separate "front wide" and "height front wide" speaker pairs (note that use of the height pair requires that the corresponding middle layer "front wide" speaker pair be installed too).
Is this available in the US?
http://www.illusonic.com/immersive-audio-processor/buy/

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post #9 of 60 Old 08-14-2013, 02:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Do you know what they sell it for?

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post #10 of 60 Old 08-14-2013, 02:45 PM
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Do you know what they sell it for?

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1459947/best-surround-processor-currently-available/210#post_23189366

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1471547/immersive-audio-processor

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post #11 of 60 Old 08-14-2013, 02:50 PM
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The reason I was asking about putting them up there is because I have no room for them.
If you can't put the wides where they are supposed to go, then better to not use them rather than place them where the heights should be.
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Now as far as the height going in the ceiling, let me ask my question a little different because I didn't ask it correctly. Should I move them closer to the middle of the side walls (not the front wall) so it sounds like it is coming directly over me such as when it rains or a helicopter flys over.
From the second post in this thread.
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I would put them between the front and side speakers, mounted as high up as possible.
So split the angle between your fronts and sides surrounds, and place the heights there. There is no standardization for heights, so the precise angle isn't critical.
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Do you know what they sell it for?
Depending on the exchange rate, roughly $22,500 last I checked. Just adds unnecessary confusion to this thread, since you're not going to be using the proprietary surround processing that goes with the speaker layout in the diagram.

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post #12 of 60 Old 08-14-2013, 03:18 PM
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I'm running a traditional 7.1. However, my understanding is for front heights, should be aligned directly above the L&R speakers on the vertical. Wides should be aligned on the horizontal with the C speaker(ideally it should be also aligned with the L&R speakers too). These positions would make panning up, down, left, and right seamless. Obviously, not all situations would allow this, however, it makes since logically.

My next step up will be 9.1/2 with heights. Wides hold no interest for me, but I think heights would be fun. I had great hopes that REDTAILS would have blown the door on heights wide open, but alas, the final product was not as awe inspiring as I had hoped.
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post #13 of 60 Old 08-14-2013, 03:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok so what is it then? Do they need to be aligned above the fronts or do they split the angle between the fronts and surrounds? I am trying to research this right now. I would love it to be the answer that sdurani gave me.

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post #14 of 60 Old 08-14-2013, 03:36 PM
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What Dolby sez about 9.1.


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post #15 of 60 Old 08-14-2013, 03:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Yea I am reading a lot of info right now confirming what you said. I just couldn't do that earlier because I was out in the field. There is a lot of contradicting info out there too. Some people say to put them outside the fronts. Some say to put them inside the fronts and some say to put them above.

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post #16 of 60 Old 08-14-2013, 03:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Here is the next issue that I need to tackle as well. My ceiling vaults up and then goes flat. Don't know if I should do it on the vaulted part or flat. I prefer to do it on the flat part but that sticks out a little bit past the fronts.



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post #17 of 60 Old 08-14-2013, 04:38 PM
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Since heights are only for spacial cues, it probably does not matter. My assumption would be to have them on the flat section. However, you can use a mirror, or two, to determine the angle from the angled part of the wall to see if it can align with your MLP.
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post #18 of 60 Old 08-14-2013, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
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Since heights are only for spacial cues, it probably does not matter. My assumption would be to have them on the flat section. However, you can use a mirror, or two, to determine the angle from the angled part of the wall to see if it can align with your MLP.

Some classical music discrete 3D audio is already recorded on Blu-ray, although the first decoders will likely not be available until 2014 (details in this short thread http://www.avsforum.com/t/1483798/heightfield-audio-recordings-telarc-chesky-mdg-2-2-2-others). Plus we are looking at the probability of 3D audio on UHDTV broadcasting in 5 to 10 years--with the possibility that post-season BDs of tv shows might contain 3D audio once the standards are set, but before widespread broadcasting begins. Based upon this, I would suggest planning for height speakers that are capable of delivering both direct sound and spacial cues, rather than just spacial cues alone...!? cool.gif
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post #19 of 60 Old 08-15-2013, 01:32 AM
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>>welcome to moving past 7.1(5.1) !!
fwiw similar discussion here, with many people posting their set-up's and how they perceive the result
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1435778/moving-past-7-1-5-1-into-9-1-11-2-upgrade-your-ht-room-via-audysseydsx-dolbypl-iiz-dts-neo-x
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post #20 of 60 Old 08-15-2013, 05:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks! I am going to start reading it now.

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post #21 of 60 Old 08-15-2013, 06:14 AM
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For heights just pick where you think they would sound best. Dolby with its PLIIz recommends them directly over the L&R speakers. Audyssey with its DSX recommends them split between where the front L&R are and the front wides.

Essentially you have your L&R placed where the wides would go so don't worry about wides. I think if it were me I'd place the heights in the ceiling at the front wall either above the L&R speakers or slightly inward like maybe a foot inside the corner of your screen.

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post #22 of 60 Old 08-15-2013, 07:33 AM
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Horizontally, heighs should be at least as wide (far apart) as your fronts, and can be slightly wider.

Vertically, heights should be 45 degrees looking up from the main listening position. They should be no less than 3 feet above your mains.

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post #23 of 60 Old 08-15-2013, 07:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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>>welcome to moving past 7.1(5.1) !!
fwiw similar discussion here, with many people posting their set-up's and how they perceive the result
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1435778/moving-past-7-1-5-1-into-9-1-11-2-upgrade-your-ht-room-via-audysseydsx-dolbypl-iiz-dts-neo-x
Sdurani had an interesting post that really intrigued me. Post number 50. I have only read through the first 100 posts so I have not finished getting everybody's thoughts.

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post #24 of 60 Old 09-22-2013, 07:01 AM - Thread Starter
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I just had an idea that could solve my issue of where to put the heights to where they sound the most realistic in my theater. I could get some transducers and put the in the ceiling so that I do not have to cut holes in my ceiling. Move them around a bit to find that perfect spot. This will also protect me from future changes in sound formats. The only issue that I can think of is they will not be pointed directly at the seats. If I can get a pair cheap it might be worth the experiment.

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post #25 of 60 Old 09-22-2013, 07:08 AM
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The speaker manufacturers must absolutely love the receiver manufacturers. They can't wait until we get to 18.2 systems.
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post #26 of 60 Old 09-22-2013, 07:21 AM - Thread Starter
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and the receiver manufacturers must love Dolby for coming up with new audio formats and changing their formats. From what I have been seeing lately, 13.x is right around the corner.

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post #27 of 60 Old 09-22-2013, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
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The speaker manufacturers must absolutely love the receiver manufacturers. They can't wait until we get to 18.2 systems.
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and the receiver manufacturers must love Dolby for coming up with new audio formats and changing their formats. From what I have been seeing lately, 13.x is right around the corner.
By that logic, Dolby must love Mother Nature for presenting the world in surround sound rather than having everything we hear come from 2 arbitrary points in front of us. No wonder people are wanting to go beyond 2-speaker playback and have sounds come from around and above us. We're being sold on the concept constantly by living in a never-ending surround sound demo. Who knew that nature itself would be shilling for speaker manufacturers.

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post #28 of 60 Old 09-22-2013, 10:02 AM - Thread Starter
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lol nice!

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post #29 of 60 Old 09-22-2013, 03:06 PM
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By that logic, Dolby must love Mother Nature for presenting the world in surround sound rather than having everything we hear come from 2 arbitrary points in front of us. No wonder people are wanting to go beyond 2-speaker playback and have sounds come from around and above us. We're being sold on the concept constantly by living in a never-ending surround sound demo. Who knew that nature itself would be shilling for speaker manufacturers.

If your stereo music sounds like it is coming from two points then, A. The room is too highly damped and B. The speakers are too far apart.
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post #30 of 60 Old 09-22-2013, 03:08 PM
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and the receiver manufacturers must love Dolby for coming up with new audio formats and changing their formats. From what I have been seeing lately, 13.x is right around the corner.

I'm not budging from 5.1. Period.
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