Paradigm Studio 20 v5 vs B&W 805D - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 16 Old 08-17-2013, 03:07 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Hi guys,

I've got the Studio 20 v5 speakers but I was looking at some measurements on the far more expensive B&W 805D (3x the price), and I thought I would share some frequency graphs both on-axis and off-axis and you could share your thoughts.

Paradigm Studio 20 :



http://audio.com.pl/testy/paradigm-studio-20-v5:1

B&W 805 Diamonds :



http://audio.com.pl/testy/bandw-805-diamond:1

Now based on what I can see, the Studio's have a smoother on-axis and off-axis response above 200 Hz. However there is a peak at 100 Hz. The 805D's have more inconsistent off-axis response but a smoother response from 150 Hz and below.

What do you think of the results? $3900+ loudspeaker vs a $1K.
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post #2 of 16 Old 08-17-2013, 04:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goneten View Post

Hi guys,

I've got the Studio 20 v5 speakers but I was looking at some measurements on the far more expensive B&W 805D (3x the price), and I thought I would share some frequency graphs both on-axis and off-axis and you could share your thoughts.

Paradigm Studio 20 :



http://audio.com.pl/testy/paradigm-studio-20-v5:1

B&W 805 Diamonds :



http://audio.com.pl/testy/bandw-805-diamond:1

Now based on what I can see, the Studio's have a smoother on-axis and off-axis response above 200 Hz. However there is a peak at 100 Hz. The 805D's have more inconsistent off-axis response but a smoother response from 150 Hz and below.

What do you think of the results? $3900+ loudspeaker vs a $1K.

I changed your figures to scale them to be more the same.

Consider this:



I recently bought a pair for $200 each.

Now, there is flat, smooth frequency response!
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post #3 of 16 Old 08-17-2013, 04:41 AM - Thread Starter
 
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That does look flat, although it appears as if there is some smoothing applied. wink.gif So you are saying that the 805D's and Studio 20's offer similar on-axis response if the graphs are scaled back? What do you think of the 805D? Your honest opinion, don't be shy. smile.gif
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post #4 of 16 Old 08-17-2013, 04:55 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I assume you got that measurement from Stereophile, here is the Paradigm Studio 20 v5 measurement :



Still not quite as flat, but I would say they measure pretty damn well as far as stand mounters go. Plus I like their looks. And I'm biased. biggrin.gif

The top-end B&W 800 :

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post #5 of 16 Old 08-17-2013, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by goneten View Post

I assume you got that measurement from Stereophile, here is the Paradigm Studio 20 v5 measurement :



Still not quite as flat, but I would say they measure pretty damn well as far as stand mounters go. Plus I like their looks. And I'm biased. biggrin.gif

The top-end B&W 800 :


The cheapies still seem as least as flat above 200 Hz.

One issue is whether or not the frequency response flaws are of a nature that is relatively easy to equalize out of existence, I presume that any good speaker is going to be used with a good AVR, surround processor or enhanced preamp that has some kind of equalizer or better yet an automatied system tuning facility. Generally smoother variations are more readily equalized out of existence. You also want to look at off-axis response and give points for off-axis response whose frequency response is similar to the on-axis response so that if you equalize the on-axis response you also help the off-axix response.
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post #6 of 16 Old 08-17-2013, 07:13 AM - Thread Starter
 
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If I used Audyssey XT32 it would probably iron out some of the irregularities in the frequency response curve. I don't think the tiny bumps and dips are too important, but the hump around 100 Hz can definitely be EQ'ed out, or cut down to size as well as the peak at around 12 kHz. smile.gif Off-axis response seems quite good on Studio 20's, but they must be used with their grills on. Grills off and the response is slightly more irregular than usual.
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post #7 of 16 Old 08-17-2013, 06:05 PM
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Hi,

Here are more measurements of speakers from the same series as yours, Paradigm Reference Studio 10 v.5 (I believe smaller woofers than yours, but the same tweeters). Review text is first link and measurements are second. From the "SoundStage! Network", "All loudspeaker measurements are performed independently at the National Research Council of Canada":

http://www.goodsound.com/equipment/paradigm_studio10_v5.htm

http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/measurements/speakers/paradigm_studio10_v5/

I'm impressed by the uniformity (lack of direction dependence) of frequency response from 0 degrees to 30 degrees off-axis horizontal plane, as shown in the first graph. This appears to be one of the best (most uniform) directionality measurements for any speakers tested by this publication. Another good result is the low distortion in the "THD+N @ 95dB, 50Hz - 10kHz (measured @ 2m)" graph, fifth from the top. Better than some large tower speakers with multiple woofers.


By the way, are you thinking of replacing your Studio 20 v5 because you not satisfied with, or trying to improve, some aspect of the sound quality of your system? What needs to be fixed or improved? I think this question should always be asked when considering an "upgrade" wink.gif
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post #8 of 16 Old 08-17-2013, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic icons View Post

Hi,

Here are more measurements of speakers from the same series as yours, Paradigm Reference Studio 10 v.5 (I believe smaller woofers than yours, but the same tweeters). Review text is first link and measurements are second. From the "SoundStage! Network", "All loudspeaker measurements are performed independently at the National Research Council of Canada":

http://www.goodsound.com/equipment/paradigm_studio10_v5.htm

http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/measurements/speakers/paradigm_studio10_v5/

I'm impressed by the uniformity (lack of direction dependence) of frequency response from 0 degrees to 30 degrees off-axis horizontal plane, as shown in the first graph. This appears to be one of the best (most uniform) directionality measurements for any speakers tested by this publication. Another good result is the low distortion in the "THD+N @ 95dB, 50Hz - 10kHz (measured @ 2m)" graph, fifth from the top. Better than some large tower speakers with multiple woofers.

By the way, are you thinking of replacing your Studio 20 v5 because you not satisfied with, or trying to improve, some aspect of the sound quality of your system? What needs to be fixed or improved? I think this question should always be asked when considering an "upgrade" wink.gif

Just for grins, here's comparble information about off-axis response and nonlinear distortion for that $200 speaker I keep bringing up:





IMO both sets of speakers have remarkably low distortion and closely matched on and off axis frequency response. Slight difference in street price! ;-)

The full set of measurements are here:

http://www.audioholics.com/tower-speaker-reviews/primus-p363/primus-p363-measurements
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post #9 of 16 Old 08-18-2013, 01:59 AM
 
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Nice speakers.
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post #10 of 16 Old 08-18-2013, 02:02 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk 
IMO both sets of speakers have remarkably low distortion and closely matched on and off axis frequency response. Slight difference in street price!

Which speaker are you comparing this to again?
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post #11 of 16 Old 08-18-2013, 02:31 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic 
By the way, are you thinking of replacing your Studio 20 v5 because you not satisfied with, or trying to improve, some aspect of the sound quality of your system? What needs to be fixed or improved? I think this question should always be asked when considering an "upgrade

I recently bought the Studio 20's v5. I live in an apartment. I'm very happy with the performance and don't intend on upgrading - I'm not sure what I would upgrade to. I would have bought a third Studio 20 for the center speaker, but I was fresh out of luck, so I decided that if I was going to buy a dedicated center, let me get something good. Enter the CC690 center. biggrin.gif I've also placed an order for dual SB12 SND subwoofers.

I was just interested in the measurements of some of the far more expensive speakers. Thought I would put them up against mine, but like Arny shows, you can achieve even better measuring speakers at a fraction of the price. I guess I just had limits on how little I wanted to spend. I wanted a certain level of fit and finish and I also wanted a reasonably flat speaker with good on-axis and off-axis response.

The scary thing is that, as you'll find, esoteric speakers more often than not measure very poorly, both in their on-axis and off-axis response. Wilson Audio come to mind. rolleyes.gif
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post #12 of 16 Old 08-18-2013, 06:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goneten View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk 
IMO both sets of speakers have remarkably low distortion and closely matched on and off axis frequency response. Slight difference in street price!

Which speaker are you comparing this to again?

Infinity Primus P-363 towers. On a good day, $200 each on Amazon. Probably a tad more where you live.

I've been wondering about their nonlinear distortion, even though mine are nice and loud and clean up to 20 dB peaks above reference level. The Audioholics review lays that concern to rest.

http://www.audioholics.com/tower-speaker-reviews/primus-p363/primus-p363-measurements
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post #13 of 16 Old 08-18-2013, 06:24 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk 
Infinity Primus P-363 towers. On a good day, $200 each on Amazon. Probably a tad more where you live.

Yeah, you keep mentioning the price. You know what that means? It means you're cheap, Arnold! biggrin.gif

... kidding. wink.gif
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post #14 of 16 Old 08-18-2013, 06:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goneten View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk 
Infinity Primus P-363 towers. On a good day, $200 each on Amazon. Probably a tad more where you live.

Yeah, you keep mentioning the price. You know what that means? It means you're cheap, Arnold! biggrin.gif

... kidding. wink.gif

Actually, it means that I am a person of modest means. I can live with that.

As a technologist and lover of humankind I'm very happy for good sound to be more accessible to everybody.
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post #15 of 16 Old 08-18-2013, 06:42 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk 
Actually, it means that I am a person of modest means. I can live with that.

As a technologist and lover of humankind I'm very happy for good sound to be more accessible to everybody.

I hope you were not offended. I certainly did not mean anything negative by it - in fact, it's more impressive than anything else. Had I known about those speakers I probably still wouldn't have bought them, but it's hard not to be impressed with the measured performance - the idea that you need to spend the big bucks for a well engineered speaker is a flawed one.
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post #16 of 16 Old 08-18-2013, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goneten View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk 
Actually, it means that I am a person of modest means. I can live with that.

As a technologist and lover of humankind I'm very happy for good sound to be more accessible to everybody.

I hope you were not offended. I certainly did not mean anything negative by it - in fact, it's more impressive than anything else. Had I known about those speakers I probably still wouldn't have bought them, but it's hard not to be impressed with the measured performance - the idea that you need to spend the big bucks for a well engineered speaker is a flawed one.

No problem.

Its not like you don't get anything with the high priced spread - the low cost speakers look that way when you see them in person. I've also seen some comments about problems with the some of the internal carpentry in some samples being poor with possible sonic effects.
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