Please Advise on Speaker Layout on New Home Theater Setup - AVS Forum
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Old 08-20-2013, 12:07 PM - Thread Starter
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I've done my best to read the various guides and related threads on this, but I'm very new to the "science" behind home theater audio and could use some pointers on my situation. I just picked up 4 Pioneer BS22s, 1 Pioneer C22, and one BIC f12. I plan to get a Denon 1913 reciever to power it all.

My living room is very large (32 foot by 18 foot) and I have enough seating (1 corner couch, 1 regular couch, and 1 recliner) to seat 9. I have a 60 inch LED in the center of it all, 13 ft away from the center of the seating area. I understand that is a bit further than ideal for my tv size, but I can't afford a bigger tv right now and moving the seating closer would make the viewing angle from some of the seats too bad. I also have a treadmill to one side of the seating area and a bar to the other side, both from which I'd like to be able to decently hear the audio from.

Let me be the first to say I know given these constraints a more expensive system would sound better. Please keep in mind that for the last 2 years we've been just using the built in TV speakers, so this is a big upgrade.

The image below shows a rough drawing of the room with the seating and proposed speaker layouts (I forgot to draw the sub, but assume it is next t o the tv). Given my situation is the layout I'm proposing the best I can do?

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Old 08-20-2013, 12:18 PM
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Congrats on your first setup.

The setup looks about right. You could move the surrounds like 1 foot forward and if your AVR is 7.1 you could get another pair of BS22s for rear surrounds. For the sub that is a big room for that sub, I would suggest trying to corner load your sub to help your bass response. I won't suggest spending more money for better quality stuff because we all have to start somewhere and your first system is better than mine was (Onkyo HTIB). This setup will be way better than just TV speakers so don't let anyone tell you it is inadequate. Enjoy it!

Unfortunately most ppl would recommend setting up the room 90 degrees from how you have it now. TV should be on narrow wall. If you can make that change great if not that's fine too. I know this isn't a dedicated room so there are compromises that must be made.

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Old 08-20-2013, 12:44 PM
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Yeah, that seems like a big room for the 2-way Pioneer BS22. The 4" woofer might struggle, even crossed over at 80hz. But you work with what you've got! You should see my basement system....heh! Total mis-match.

Anyway.

I would bring your front speakers a bit forward, so they are slightly ahead of your center - and toed in towards your sweet spot.

Sub placement will require a sub-crawl. smile.gif Don't get stuck on putting it near the TV.

But you'll just have to experiment with speaker placement. No matter what, it'll be better than TV speakers alone. smile.gif You might even find nice yard-sale deals over time that could be affordable upgrades for your fronts.

Hopefully you have ethernet in the area, even if you don't think you'll use it, plugging that 1913 into an ethernet line will let you use smart phone apps and take advantage of on-line content like Pandora. If you don't have ethernet, and rely on wireless, then you may want to shop around for a wifi enabled AVR.

Anyway, have fun!
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Old 08-20-2013, 12:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flickhtguru View Post

Congrats on your first setup.

The setup looks about right. You could move the surrounds like 1 foot forward and if your AVR is 7.1 you could get another pair of BS22s for rear surrounds. For the sub that is a big room for that sub, I would suggest trying to corner load your sub to help your bass response. I won't suggest spending more money for better quality stuff because we all have to start somewhere and your first system is better than mine was (Onkyo HTIB). This setup will be way better than just TV speakers so don't let anyone tell you it is inadequate. Enjoy it!

Unfortunately most ppl would recommend setting up the room 90 degrees from how you have it now. TV should be on narrow wall. If you can make that change great if not that's fine too. I know this isn't a dedicated room so there are compromises that must be made.

Yeah I'd like to turn it 90 degrees, but the bar in the top left corner is built in so that can't be moved and on the right narrow side is a double wide door. The only way it would be possible to turn it is if I cut my seating in half. We have people over often enough that I'd rather not do that.

The only real other option I see is putting the tv in the bottom right corner and orienting the furniture around that. The problem there is then the tv would be in front of a bunch of windows.
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Old 08-21-2013, 07:12 AM
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Ok well then where you have it now is just fine. I do agree with cubicalcrusher about the placement and toe in of the front L&R speakers. 3 toe-in angles I would try are: have their center axis cross 1' infront of center listening position, 1' behind center listening position, and right at the center listening position... In my room with my speakers and my seating having the speakers toed in so the axis cross 1' infront of MLP is the best soundstage.

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Old 08-21-2013, 09:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CubicleCrusher View Post

Yeah, that seems like a big room for the 2-way Pioneer BS22. The 4" woofer might struggle, even crossed over at 80hz.

Would the Pioneer FS52s work better for the fronts in my room size? Or do i need to upgrade to something significantly more expensive to make any difference? I can return the BS22s and get these intead. I'll be over budget but I think I can stretch it.
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Old 08-21-2013, 09:58 AM
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The FS52s will definitely be better. So yeah if you can take the BS22s back and you can spend the extra cash I would say go for the FS52s. The FS52s are a 3 way design with 1 - 5.25" midrange and 2 - 5.25" woofers where the BS22 is a 2 way design with only 1 - 4" mid/woofer.

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Old 08-21-2013, 11:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flickhtguru View Post

The FS52s will definitely be better. So yeah if you can take the BS22s back and you can spend the extra cash I would say go for the FS52s. The FS52s are a 3 way design with 1 - 5.25" midrange and 2 - 5.25" woofers where the BS22 is a 2 way design with only 1 - 4" mid/woofer.
OK will do, thanks for your thoughts.

Next question: To make up for the extra money spent on the speakers I may downgrade my receiver form the Denon 1913 to the Denon 1613 (refurb $225 with shipping). I know I lose the option to eventually upgrade to a 7 channel setup, beyond that will I lose anything else?
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Old 08-21-2013, 12:54 PM
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About a 7.1 vs. a 7.2 receiver, it depends on the receiver. Most 7.2 receivers ( all the cheaper ones ) just have the signal Y'd on the inside of the receiver, which is the same thing as just buying an external Y adapter. Now a few of the better 7.2 receivers have Audyssey Mult EQ XT32 which EQ's/Calibrates the 2 subs individually, all other receivers just act as its one subwoofer. So unless you are going to spend big money on a 7.2 receiver it really doesn't matter which you get. But remember you should spend less on your receiver than on your sub(s) OR speakers. So many times ppl buy expensive receivers then buy cheap speakers and sub(s).

Next best thing to upgrade would be the sub. You have to decide what your goal is to know if you should buy a single better sub or buy a 2nd F12. 2 subs placed at very different locations in the room will help get even bass thru the whole room so everyone hears the same bass. 1 better sub might have more power and be able to dig much deeper than 2 - F12's. IMO if you want a single sub I would be looking in the $500 - $800 price range with subs like Rythmik LV12R, Outlaw Audio LFM-1 Plus or EX, Hsu VTF2 MK4 or VTF3 MK4, Power Sound Audio XV15, SVS PB12 NSD or PC12 NSD. If that is too much money then get a 2nd F12.

The other thing you could do is just do 7.1 from the start. Don't take the BS22's back, keep them for your rear surrounds and just add the FS52's for the front L&R.

Shawn
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Old 08-21-2013, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyrules712 View Post

Would the Pioneer FS52s work better for the fronts in my room size?
Depends on what you mean by "better". The FS52 will move more air and sound more impactful in your large room.

But the BS22 will make for a more seamless match with your CS22 centre speaker, since they use the same drivers in similarly sized cabinets. This means that when sounds move from left to right across the soundstage, they will remain more consistent sounding.

If you do get a pair of FS52s for the front, then consider getting another one later to use as a centre speaker (I think they are sold individually).

The BS22 will be fine for surround duty, but I would place them in the back tri-corners of the room (where the back corner meets the ceiling), where the multiple reflective surfaces will help with envelopment.

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Old 08-22-2013, 05:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Next question.

I'm planning on starting to work on wiring the speakers this weekend. I decided to go ahead and install the wiring for a 7 channel setup so I can easily add the back speakers later.

The photo below shows the living room again. I circled in green where I plan to put the side speakers.

I'm having trouble deciding where the two rear surrounds would go. The top right side of the room (as seen in the birds eye view picture) opens up to the rest of the house, so the rear surround on that side either has to go all the way into the corner or close to the back middle of the room. Which is better?

One option is circled in red, the other in blue.

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Old 08-23-2013, 05:38 AM
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If it were me: 1) I would move the side surrounds front just a little bit so they are 90 degrees to the listener IF you are going to eventually do 7.1 with rear surround 2) Because your room is wider than it is long you may consider doing front wides or front heights instead of rear surround speakers 3) If I were to do 7.1 with rear surrounds in your room I would probably go with the red option.

Shawn
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Old 08-23-2013, 06:50 AM
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This is almost good for a 6.1 setup with a single rear speaker. Did 6.1 die, or is it still around? I'm not sure....maybe check into it though.

flick's suggestions are all good. Even if you don't go to 7.1, having the side surrounds on-axis with the listeners ears is a good idea.

Putting the rear speakers on stands, and placing them behind the couch only during movies is another option - you could remove the speakers/stands and tuck the wires aside when you are not settling in for a full 7.1 movie experience. Of course, you'd have to re-calibrate every time you switch from 5.1 to 7.1, but that just makes you "good at it". biggrin.gif
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Old 08-23-2013, 07:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flickhtguru View Post

If it were me: 1) I would move the side surrounds front just a little bit so they are 90 degrees to the listener IF you are going to eventually do 7.1 with rear surround 2) Because your room is wider than it is long you may consider doing front wides or front heights instead of rear surround speakers 3) If I were to do 7.1 with rear surrounds in your room I would probably go with the red option.


How's this look? I moved the side left speaker (the one on the right side of the picture) slightly forward, between the window and door, but I can't move it any farther forward due to a double wide door being in the way, unless I move it way up. On the other side I have a regular sized door right at 90 degrees, so my options are probably something like 110 degrees or 80. In this version of the picture I put it in the spot closer to 80. Since half the seating is on this side this layout might make more sense anyway. Thoughts?

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Old 08-23-2013, 07:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CubicleCrusher View Post

This is almost good for a 6.1 setup with a single rear speaker. Did 6.1 die, or is it still around? I'm not sure....maybe check into it though.

Well IMO even if 2 rear surrounds have to be placed right next to eachother I still think 7.1 is better than 6.1. Actually THX's ASA surround modes are made to work with 2 rear surrounds right next to eachother. This was made when true 7.1 wasn't around yet and it was determined that 2 mono rear channels worked and sounded better than a single mono rear channel.

Shawn
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Old 08-23-2013, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyrules712 View Post

How's this look? I moved the side left speaker (the one on the right side of the picture) slightly forward, between the window and door, but I can't move it any farther forward due to a double wide door being in the way, unless I move it way up. On the other side I have a regular sized door right at 90 degrees, so my options are probably something like 110 degrees or 80. In this version of the picture I put it in the spot closer to 80. Since half the seating is on this side this layout might make more sense anyway. Thoughts?


Your side surrounds should be directly across from eachother. Can't you place it directly across from where the other one is? LIke right where the bar ends before the door? Also how high are you mounting your surround speakers? Normally ppl advise 2 to 3 feet above seated ear level. However to me I like my surrounds as high as possible. I have all 4 of my surrounds mounted with the top of the speaker only 2" down from the ceiling and my ceilings are 8'.

Shawn
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Old 08-23-2013, 07:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by flickhtguru View Post

Your side surrounds should be directly across from eachother. Can't you place it directly across from where the other one is? LIke right where the bar ends before the door? Also how high are you mounting your surround speakers? Normally ppl advise 2 to 3 feet above seated ear level. However to me I like my surrounds as high as possible. I have all 4 of my surrounds mounted with the top of the speaker only 2" down from the ceiling and my ceilings are 8'.

I plan on mounting them as high as possible with using this wall mount:
http://www.amazon.com/VideoSecu-Clamping-Mounting-Surrounding-MS56B/dp/B000X9O8SI/ref=pd_sim_e_2

I originally was thinking I wouldn't be able to put the speaker on that side behind the bar because we are planning on putting upper cabinets behind the bar against the wall there (I forgot to take that into account in my original drawing). I just had a 'doh' moment and realized that I should be able to put the speaker on top of the cabinent and then I may not even have to mount it.

So assuming that works out, this is where things are at:

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Old 08-23-2013, 08:10 AM
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Ok sounds good. Good luck and hope you enjoy your setup. Once you have it setup report back your thoughts and how you like it.

Shawn
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