Should I downgrade 7.1 to 5.1 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 18 Old 08-28-2013, 06:49 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Hagfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 398
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Sorry for posting this is again but I originally posted this in the speakers area then decided that it is probably better suited for this forum (especially when I only got 1 response). Thanks for any thoughts and ideas.

"Hi all, Sorry but this is another "speakers against back wall with couch" thread. The difference between this and other threads that I researched though is that the other guys actually had an option as to where to place their speakers and were looking for placement suggestions. I inherited this media room and its pretty sweet. There are in wall definitive speakers installed, 2 on front wall with projector screen, 2 in the middle of the room on the side walls, and 2 on the back wall about 2-3 feet from the couch. I realize that to run 7.1 optimally I should have the couch in the center with the side speakers, but it just won't work there. So I've been running this nerfed config for the last few months, and I'm really starting to notice how much I'm missing from the mid speakers. That's where my question and hopes for advice come in.

I've seen many say that you should just run 5.1 in this situation rather than a weak 7.1 config. So if I decide to try that I'm wondering about the best way to achieve that. I have a denon 1913 and I haven't checked yet to see if there's a way to just duplicate the sound from the mid speakers to the rear or if I would want to do that even if it's possible. Obviously I could rewire the rears and just plug them into the mids on the avr, and unplug the actual mids all together. Just curious for you all's advice about what I can do with this set up. Just trying to make it sound the best with what I have and limitations with the couch, knowing that I can't move either the speakers or the couch. Thanks!"
Hagfish is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 18 Old 08-28-2013, 10:16 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Tulpa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 10,026
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hagfish View Post


I've seen many say that you should just run 5.1 in this situation rather than a weak 7.1 config. So if I decide to try that I'm wondering about the best way to achieve that. I have a denon 1913 and I haven't checked yet to see if there's a way to just duplicate the sound from the mid speakers to the rear or if I would want to do that even if it's possible. Obviously I could rewire the rears and just plug them into the mids on the avr, and unplug the actual mids all together.

It would help to see an actual diagram of the room. Are the current rears (the ones you want to turn into "Mids") facing toward the couch, or will they overshoot it?

There's no way to duplicate the mids and rears in the receiver alone, so using just one set is the way to go.

Don't believe everything on the Interwebz! A duck's quack DOES echo!
Tulpa is offline  
post #3 of 18 Old 08-29-2013, 05:52 AM
AVS Special Member
 
flickhtguru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Lebanon, PA
Posts: 2,458
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 105
The thing is I don't think going to 5.1 is going to help you in this situation. Because 5.1 is the 3 fronts plus the 2 side surrounds (there are no rear surrounds in 5.1). So if your side speakers are the problem I would just say stay with 7.1 and live with what you have.

Shawn
flickhtguru is offline  
post #4 of 18 Old 08-29-2013, 12:37 PM
Member
 
CubicleCrusher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 188
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 22
I have to ask the obvious, have you run Audyssey with the mic placement all closely grouped around your main listening position?

Your seating placement isn't ideal, but Audyssey might be able to compensate by adjusting speaker trim levels - but take your time and do it right. Read the Audyssey Guide if you haven't already.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/795421/official-audyssey-thread-faq-in-post-1/5700
CubicleCrusher is offline  
post #5 of 18 Old 08-29-2013, 12:52 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Hagfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 398
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Thanks for the thoughts guys. I went ahead and made a crappy diagram of the media room so you can get a better idea. Even though the cheesy graphic is two couches, mine is actually all connected, which is why I can't move it to the center of the room. Yea- I did run audyssey- I think I used 6 different mic locations during that setup, 3 of which were on the couch. Don't get me wrong- things don't sound horrible by any means.. It's just interesting to lean in or walk towards the center of the room during a DD movie or show and hear what little things I might be missing while back on the couch. Thanks again


Hagfish is offline  
post #6 of 18 Old 08-29-2013, 04:45 PM
AVS Special Member
 
flickhtguru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Lebanon, PA
Posts: 2,458
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 105
That kinda sux cuz its not your fault but those speakers are way too far front in the room. The person who designed that room and placed those speakers didn't know what they were doing. If I were the one doing that room at 19ft long I would have placed the surrounds probably about 6ft from the rear wall.

Shawn
flickhtguru is offline  
post #7 of 18 Old 08-29-2013, 05:45 PM
Newbie
 
CyclistMT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Although the sides are not in an ideal placement for this, what about reassigning them as Front Heights? With Audyssey correction maybe they would be OK in that configuration in spite of being that far out in the room?

...
CyclistMT is offline  
post #8 of 18 Old 08-29-2013, 07:36 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Hagfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 398
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by flickhtguru View Post

That kinda sux cuz its not your fault but those speakers are way too far front in the room. The person who designed that room and placed those speakers didn't know what they were doing. If I were the one doing that room at 19ft long I would have placed the surrounds probably about 6ft from the rear wall.

After going upstairs and doing another measurement I realized my drawing is a tad off. The mid speakers are actually closer to the rear wall than the front but only by a foot. 10 ft from the front and 9 ft from the rear. So yea, the installers should have put them in about 3 more ft back. Of course they didn't know that there wasn't going to be a couch or seats in the middle of the room. Still kind of torn about whether to make any changes or just leave things be.
Hagfish is offline  
post #9 of 18 Old 08-30-2013, 05:35 AM
AVS Special Member
 
flickhtguru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Lebanon, PA
Posts: 2,458
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 105
If they weren't in-wall speakers I'd say move them. But I think if you think it sounds good then just keep it as a 7.1 setup and use PLIIx Movie and hopefully you will be satisfied with the sound.

Shawn
flickhtguru is offline  
post #10 of 18 Old 08-30-2013, 07:19 AM
Advanced Member
 
nograveconcern's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 565
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 52
I would move them. They should be right next to the couch and 2.5'-3' above ear level. The left rear looks a little too far left as well.
nograveconcern is offline  
post #11 of 18 Old 08-30-2013, 01:03 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Hagfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 398
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by flickhtguru View Post

If they weren't in-wall speakers I'd say move them. But I think if you think it sounds good then just keep it as a 7.1 setup and use PLIIx Movie and hopefully you will be satisfied with the sound.

PLIIx over TrueHD/DTS-MA? I'm assuming your suggesting that because of my setup- but won't I lose some of the isolation in that mode? Either way- it's worth a try I'll head up there later and play something like LOTR Shire scene and switch back n forth between dstma and plIIx
Hagfish is offline  
post #12 of 18 Old 08-30-2013, 01:24 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Tulpa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 10,026
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hagfish View Post

PLIIx over TrueHD/DTS-MA? I'm assuming your suggesting that because of my setup- but won't I lose some of the isolation in that mode?

Why would it? If it's a true 7.1 soundtrack, PLIIx won't kick on. If it's a 5.1 soundtrack, it would be no different than how it expands a DVD's soundtrack from 5.1 to 7.1.

Don't believe everything on the Interwebz! A duck's quack DOES echo!
Tulpa is offline  
post #13 of 18 Old 08-30-2013, 02:01 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Hagfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 398
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulpa View Post

Why would it? If it's a true 7.1 soundtrack, PLIIx won't kick on. If it's a 5.1 soundtrack, it would be no different than how it expands a DVD's soundtrack from 5.1 to 7.1.

Yea- I would need to do a little more homework in that area. Honestly I've really only used PLII modes for stereo sources (music, etc)- I've never played with it on movies. As a matter of fact I have always just played the highest available source. I.e. most blurays are dtshd/truehd, so I just let the receiver bitstream that. At the same time- Uverse channels are only Dolby 5.1 and I still let the receiver just decode that. Sounds like it's worth it for me to play with those other modes depending on the source, but for some reason I've always that this stigma that I'd be losing sound quality when doing so.
Hagfish is offline  
post #14 of 18 Old 08-30-2013, 02:50 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Tulpa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 10,026
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hagfish View Post

Sounds like it's worth it for me to play with those other modes depending on the source, but for some reason I've always that this stigma that I'd be losing sound quality when doing so.

With a 5.1 source (regardless of whether it's lossy DD/DTS or lossless TrueHD/DTS-MA) going into a 7.1 setup, PLIIx only touches the rear surround channels, which is generally ambient sound. And all it does is take sounds that would normally phantom image in a 5.1 situation and send it to the rears (in stereo). Nothing really to lose. 7.1 soundtracks aren't affected at all, as the receiver knows it's getting seven discrete channels.

The only time a true 7.1 soundtrack would have an advantage over a source 5.1+PLIIx would be if there is some complex surround sound cues that require hitting specific speakers in a weird sequence. Those would be pretty rare, and if on blu-ray, would most likely already be 7.1. Even if it simply pans through the surrounds, PLIIx would most likely do the same thing an engineer in the mixing room would do.
Hagfish likes this.

Don't believe everything on the Interwebz! A duck's quack DOES echo!
Tulpa is offline  
post #15 of 18 Old 08-31-2013, 09:10 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Hagfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 398
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Gotcha- that makes sense. I'll play around with setting my receiver to handle 5.1 with plIIx by default and "suffer" through blu-rays w/ 7.1 that may not exactly have the best speaker arrangement. It does seem kind of silly to unplug a good set of speakers. I may also run audyssey again and do more tests from the couch area. Thanks for all the input everyone.
Hagfish is offline  
post #16 of 18 Old 08-31-2013, 11:01 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Hagfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 398
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
OK- one last thing and I can take this to a diff thread if need be. After the recommendations of pliix- I tried that, but my denon remote only seems to be letting me switch to PLIIx "music". If I hit "movie" it just stays in Dolby Digital. This was when watching football on espn (uverse). Also tried a movie channel with DD, same result.
Hagfish is offline  
post #17 of 18 Old 09-03-2013, 10:32 AM
Member
 
toddbigeasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 71
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 13
you may have to go into the avr settings and "tell" it you have rear speakers.
toddbigeasy is offline  
post #18 of 18 Old 09-03-2013, 04:36 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Hagfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 398
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Nah I figured it out- on this new Denon remote you have to hold down "cinema" until the OSD shows the different modes. Then I was able to switch to pliix cinema.
Hagfish is offline  
Reply Audio theory, Setup and Chat

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off