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post #1 of 48 Old 09-04-2013, 02:20 PM - Thread Starter
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post #2 of 48 Old 09-05-2013, 12:45 PM
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Is this your room, or someone else's?

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post #3 of 48 Old 09-05-2013, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FOH View Post

Is this your room, or someone else's?

I take the prominently placed price tags as the true message of the post. ;-)
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post #4 of 48 Old 09-05-2013, 01:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FOH View Post

Is this your room, or someone else's?

Not in a million years is that mine.

Yesterday, I stopped by an AV store thst I have never heard of.

The Source AV in Torrance Calif.
http://www.thesourceav.com/

I went there to test a Crowson motion system. After testing the system in this room...



I was invited to see about 6-8 other rooms where 2-channel systems were set up. Most of the rooms contained $150,000.00 plus speakers along with $350,000 equipment to run the speakers.

It was a treat to listen to speakers and systems that I would never in my life have heard.

The photos that I posted, The Source created it.

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post #5 of 48 Old 09-05-2013, 01:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

I take the prominently placed price tags as the true message of the post. ;-)

The true message of the post is, Some People are Truly Serious Listeners

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post #6 of 48 Old 09-05-2013, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimShaw View Post

The true message of the post is, Some People are Truly Serious Listeners

Or, "Some people are truly gullible consumers." biggrin.gif

--Ethan
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post #7 of 48 Old 09-05-2013, 02:44 PM
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I was in this sweet 2-channel room 2 years ago, size is 13.5' x 20' .

monoblock solid state amps, bass traps, diffusers/treatments at precise points, what's not to like here??





For others that may not know, that's Jim Salk, he's been making speakers for 12+ years.

Very nice person, the red ones are his.....





The gear rack.....



IMO that $$$$$ via The Source is way over blown!
Guess lots of people have $$ to burn, and egos to boost.

My point:
No need to imply "Serious Listener" need be high $$$$$$$.

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post #8 of 48 Old 09-05-2013, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan Winer View Post

Or, "Some people are truly gullible consumers." biggrin.gif

--Ethan

+1

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post #9 of 48 Old 09-05-2013, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan Winer View Post

Or, "Some people are truly gullible consumers

Nice rooms with good acoustic symmetry and treatments and some nice speakers in them. I am sure those rooms would sound good.

Of course that is going to convince the average customer that it is the expense boutique electronics there are responsible for the good sound so they will probably purchase them and take them back to their house and then wonder why it doesn't sound the same probably.
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post #10 of 48 Old 09-05-2013, 03:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan Winer View Post

Or, "Some people are truly gullible consumers." biggrin.gif

--Ethan

If one has that much disposable money, why not. I bet your system to many others in this world would also seem "truly gullible consumers"

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post #11 of 48 Old 09-05-2013, 03:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post


My point:
No need to imply "Serious Listener" need be high $$$$$$$.

I know. Didn't really know what to call this thread. That was the first thing that came to mind.

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post #12 of 48 Old 09-05-2013, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimShaw View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

I take the prominently placed price tags as the true message of the post. ;-)

The true message of the post is, Some People are Truly Serious Listeners

Come on, I wasn't born yesterday!

I live less than 2 miles from some of the most lushly appointed yacht basins on the Great Lakes.

When people start flaunting price tags the words nouveau riche come to many people's minds.

Wasn't there a character on the Grand Old Oprey who left the price tags on her clothes to impress people?

There's a strong message - if you are serious, you must spend the big bucks.

Then there is a side dish of "I'm so influential that I have a well-known speaker designer sitting in my listening room".

Enjoy!
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post #13 of 48 Old 09-05-2013, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimShaw View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan Winer View Post

Or, "Some people are truly gullible consumers." biggrin.gif

--Ethan

If one has that much disposable money, why not.

Because as Bill Gates has rather elegantly pointed out, people are dying painful deaths because other people think that money is ever disposable.
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post #14 of 48 Old 09-05-2013, 10:32 PM
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Personally I wouldn't mind hearing those ML Statements though... but yeah money doesn't equal being a serious listener.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post

I was in this sweet 2-channel room 2 years ago, size is 13.5' x 20' .

That was a HEMI meet up wasn't it? I missed that one as I was sick. Ugh wish I could've gone.


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post #15 of 48 Old 09-05-2013, 11:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

Come on, I wasn't born yesterday!

I live less than 2 miles from some of the most lushly appointed yacht basins on the Great Lakes.

When people start flaunting price tags the words nouveau riche come to many people's minds.

Wasn't there a character on the Grand Old Oprey who left the price tags on her clothes to impress people?

There's a strong message - if you are serious, you must spend the big bucks.

Then there is a side dish of "I'm so influential that I have a well-known speaker designer sitting in my listening room".

Enjoy!

I am sorry! You must be having a bad day.

All I see is one chair in one room. It doesn't look like who ever owns that room is trying to show off or as you stated, "I'm so influential that I have a well-known speaker designer sitting in my listening room"

Possibly "nouveau riche" that live near you feel that way but this thread is about one person's listening room and how he has set it up obviously for himself.

Here's another statement you mentioned trying to make your point, "Because as Bill Gates has rather elegantly pointed out, people are dying painful deaths because other people think that money is ever disposable"

Are you trying to say because some people like to spend more than others for items "people are dying painful deaths"? You used something Bill Gates possibly said to make a point about the wasteful spending of money. Bill Gates spent about $63 Million on his 66,000 square foot home. His home has a 60 foot long swimming pool. It also has a 2500 sq ft gym, dinning room is 1000 sq ft (more than most people's living space in this world), somewhere in his home is Leonardo da Vinci's 16th century note book which Gates purchased for $30.8 million. His garage will hold 23 cars and his speakers throught the entire home are behind wall paper so as not to be seen. I can go on and on about how much money Bill Gates spends on his stuff and you use him to support your position about how bad and wasteful it is to spend one's own money on things because it deprives others. That to me sounds communistic.

Yes, Bill Gates donates a ton of money for good but he also spends what he wants on his stuff which gives him pleasure possible just like the person who owns this room...







m
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post #16 of 48 Old 09-06-2013, 03:55 AM
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I bet it sounds terrific.
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post #17 of 48 Old 09-06-2013, 05:16 AM
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I bet it sounds terrific.

I'm sure it does. I am also sure that spending 4-5k on gear and speakers would sound awesome as well in a similarly treated room....even DIY treated to save $$$.

I don't get why one has to spend well into the hundreds of thousands of dollars in order to be considered a serious listener.

I don't need snobs to tell me how to think, thank you!

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post #18 of 48 Old 09-06-2013, 08:32 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm sure it does. I am also sure that spending 4-5k on gear and speakers would sound awesome as well in a similarly treated room....even DIY treated to save $$$.

I don't get why one has to spend well into the hundreds of thousands of dollars in order to be considered a serious listener

I am afraid that was my fault.

When I first started this thread call "A Serious Listener" there were only the two pictures, no copy or information.





The image of a large room, sound equipment and a lone chair brought to mind a serious listener. That was the image that I have of a serious listener, not the cost of the equipment. After posting the photos, it was later on that I discovered the speakers and electronics that were used and even later I discovered the cost of the equipment. I placed that info into the thread because I thought members would like to know. I didn't realize some would be offended and make the leap that I was saying, money makes a serious listener.

For me, when my wife leaves for a few hours, the TV is off, the home is empty and I am all by my self and the lights are turned down low, I place a CD into my player and beautiful music surrounds me. I sit there and enjoy every note. That is what I felt looking at the two posted photos. That is what I call a serious listener.



m

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post #19 of 48 Old 09-06-2013, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by |Tch0rT| View Post

Personally I wouldn't mind hearing those ML Statements though... but yeah money doesn't equal being a serious listener.[quote name="mtbdudex" url="/t/1489165/a-serious-listener#post_23704946"]I was in this sweet 2-channel room 2 years ago, size is 13.5' x 20' .[/quote]That was a HEMI meet up wasn't it? I missed that one as I was sick. Ugh wish I could've gone.
Yes 2011 fall HEMI meet, there is planning for a fall one right now.


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post #20 of 48 Old 09-06-2013, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimShaw View Post

The image of a large room, sound equipment and a lone chair brought to mind a serious listener. That was the image that I have of a serious listener, not the cost of the equipment.

This is why it is quite often repeated around here that it is the *room* that has a very very large impact on the sound quality you will get to experience.

But yet I have lost count of the amount of times I have seen people post photos of their expensive fancy systems all off centre with one speaker in a corner and the other speaker virtually in the middle of the wall length and a whole heap of furniture between one of the speakers and were they would be listening from. It's like they have tried their hardest to get the least amount of acoustic symmetry possible!

So which of these two extremes does your room more look like?
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post #21 of 48 Old 09-06-2013, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by kiwi2 View Post

Nice rooms with good acoustic symmetry and treatments and some nice speakers in them. I am sure those rooms would sound good.

Of course that is going to convince the average customer that it is the expense boutique electronics there are responsible for the good sound so they will probably purchase them and take them back to their house and then wonder why it doesn't sound the same probably.

You bring up an excellent observation here. I've actually been at a high-end dealer when a customer comes in and says that the speakers aren't sounding nearly as good at home as they did at the dealer's listening room.

Instead of helping the customer with setup, placement, room acoustics, etc, the dealer tells the customer they need upgraded power cords...or better speaker wire...or a different DAC...or a high-quality power outlet....

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post #22 of 48 Old 09-06-2013, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by kiwi2 View Post

This is why it is quite often repeated around here that it is the *room* that has a very very large impact on the sound quality you will get to experience.

But yet I have lost count of the amount of times I have seen people post photos of their expensive fancy systems all off centre with one speaker in a corner and the other speaker virtually in the middle of the wall length and a whole heap of furniture between one of the speakers and were they would be listening from. It's like they have tried their hardest to get the least amount of acoustic symmetry possible!

So which of these two extremes does your room more look like?

And another one. This reminds me of a speaker owner's thread from a couple years ago where a guy was telling me he could easily hear the differences in power cords. He had posted a pic of his really nice tower speakers - with one standing halfway behind a couch and the other standing halfway behind a big chair.

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post #23 of 48 Old 09-06-2013, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimShaw View Post


When I first started this thread call "A Serious Listener" there were only the two pictures, no copy or information.





The image of a large room, sound equipment and a lone chair brought to mind a serious listener. That was the image that I have of a serious listener, not the cost of the equipment. After posting the photos, it was later on that I discovered the speakers and electronics that were used and even later I discovered the cost of the equipment. I placed that info into the thread because I thought members would like to know. I didn't realize some would be offended and make the leap that I was saying, money makes a serious listener.

For me, when my wife leaves for a few hours, the TV is off, the home is empty and I am all by my self and the lights are turned down low, I place a CD into my player and beautiful music surrounds me. I sit there and enjoy every note. That is what I felt looking at the two posted photos. That is what I call a serious listener.

m

For what it's worth, Jim, immediately upon seeing and reading your first post in this thread, I got the same impression as you. I think I understood what you meant to convey. I'm sorry some other posters tried to take you to task over it. I don't think you intended to convey spending mega $$$ = incredible sound or mega dedication to sound reproduction accuracy.

Only a serious listener would devote the whole room, complete with symmetry, room treatments, and one lone chair placed optimally within the room to listening to his or her music. I think that was your point. If so, I agree. The amount of money it costs really had nothing to do with your intent.
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post #24 of 48 Old 09-06-2013, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Will2007 View Post

For what it's worth, Jim, immediately upon seeing and reading your first post in this thread, I got the same impression as you. I think I understood what you meant to convey. I'm sorry some other posters tried to take you to task over it. I don't think you intended to convey spending mega $$$ = incredible sound or mega dedication to sound reproduction accuracy.

Only a serious listener would devote the whole room, complete with symmetry, room treatments, and one lone chair placed optimally within the room to listening to his or her music. I think that was your point. If so, I agree. The amount of money it costs really had nothing to do with your intent.

+1, when I saw the pictures I didnt really notice the equipment other than the monolith speakers.
Browsing so many audio sites has left me with gear overload I suppose.

So I imagined that all those that are posting importance of room set up and speaker
placement, treatments, etc would have offered some pics of their spaces, to show the dedication
and time spent. No?
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post #25 of 48 Old 09-06-2013, 06:56 PM
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post #26 of 48 Old 09-06-2013, 07:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Will2007 View Post

For what it's worth, Jim, immediately upon seeing and reading your first post in this thread, I got the same impression as you. I think I understood what you meant to convey. I'm sorry some other posters tried to take you to task over it. I don't think you intended to convey spending mega $$$ = incredible sound or mega dedication to sound reproduction accuracy.

Only a serious listener would devote the whole room, complete with symmetry, room treatments, and one lone chair placed optimally within the room to listening to his or her music. I think that was your point. If so, I agree. The amount of money it costs really had nothing to do with your intent.

I thank you for your words.


m

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post #27 of 48 Old 09-06-2013, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perry R View Post

+1, when I saw the pictures I didnt really notice the equipment other than the monolith speakers.
Browsing so many audio sites has left me with gear overload I suppose.

So I imagined that all those that are posting importance of room set up and speaker
placement, treatments, etc would have offered some pics of their spaces, to show the dedication
and time spent. No?

Maybe. From what I can see, the pics in the opening post look to me like the owner of the room did spend a lot of time and effort to ensure proper speaker placement with respect to walls and boundaries within the room, and the distance to the listening position and from each other. I also saw more than cursory room treatments.

Anyway, from reading many of his posts and most of his articles on his website, I'm quite confident that Ethan Winer has indeed spent a lot of time and effort treating his room(s) and positioning his speakers. Probably Arny too.

In mine own experimental efforts in my listening room, I have found even minor adjustments of speaker positioning to have very noticeable effects, and I have made measurements and placed bass traps in appropriate places throughout the room and placed absorption panels at first reflection points on the side walls, behind the LP, and behind the front speakers. I also moved my listening position further from the back wall and into the room, trying to observe the 38% rule of thumb as closely as possible. All of those things have improved frequency response, smoothed the bass, tamed some modes, and improved clarity.
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post #28 of 48 Old 09-07-2013, 01:36 AM
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Originally Posted by JimShaw View Post


I am sorry! You must be having a bad day.

Oh, I dearly love being talked down to so much! ;-)

Actually, people who know me know that I'm having way too much fun. So keep those cards and letters coming!
Quote:
Here's another statement you mentioned trying to make your point, "Because as Bill Gates has rather elegantly pointed out, people are dying painful deaths because other people think that money is ever disposable"

Are you trying to say because some people like to spend more than others for items "people are dying painful deaths"?

I'm saying that I question the concept of disposable income. And I admit it, I've spent a few grand on audio this year. Personal money is usually a zero sum game.
Quote:
You used something Bill Gates possibly said to make a point about the wasteful spending of money. Bill Gates spent about $63 Million on his 66,000 square foot home. His home has a 60 foot long swimming pool. It also has a 2500 sq ft gym, dinning room is 1000 sq ft (more than most people's living space in this world), somewhere in his home is Leonardo da Vinci's 16th century note book which Gates purchased for $30.8 million. His garage will hold 23 cars and his speakers throught the entire home are behind wall paper so as not to be seen. I can go on and on about how much money Bill Gates spends on his stuff and you use him to support your position about how bad and wasteful it is to spend one's own money on things because it deprives others. That to me sounds communistic.

Yes, Bill Gates donates a ton of money for good but he also spends what he wants on his stuff which gives him pleasure possible just like the person who owns this room...

Here's the numbers. For tax reasons Bill Gates must give away at least 1.5 billion dollars, that is 1,500 milliion dollars every year. Actual giving is said to be more like 4 billion dollars last year. That takes my breath away! You know, a billion dollars here, a billion dollars there, pretty soon you are talking real money!

It is true that a few years back over a period of about 7 years he spent $150 million on the Seattle house. And there is the new house in Japan But that was only about $21 million a year for 7 years in Seattle. He pays about a million dollars a year on property taxes, and lately he has spent a few $million a year the last years building up a buffer zone around his house to protect his privacy.

I figure that anybody who gives away $1,500 to $4,000 million dollars a year can spend a few million here or there on whatever for themselves without making any excuses to me. ;-)

When you are actually in Bill Gates territory even just proportionately, drop me a line! ;-)
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post #29 of 48 Old 09-07-2013, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by beaveav View Post

Instead of helping the customer with setup, placement, room acoustics, etc, the dealer tells the customer they need upgraded power cords...or better speaker wire...or a different DAC...or a high-quality power outlet....

Sad, yet so typical.

--Ethan

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post #30 of 48 Old 09-07-2013, 04:13 PM
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At bare minimum, at least the dealer could offer help with setup, placement, and most importantly room acoustics, if the unsatisfied Mr Deep Pockets bought said items (upgraded power cords, speaker wire, DAC, high-quality power outlet, etc) rolleyes.giftongue.gif ...

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