Using Audessy Eq to flatten Frequency (question) - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 11 Old 09-17-2013, 06:56 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
serialmike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 2,745
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Hi all. Thanks in advance.

My situation is this. Have Klipsch RF82 fronts and RC62 center. I measured them in my last house but never corrected. Mv them to a new house with completely different room and came I with similar respone. The klipsch Reference series seems to have a dip at 1k and 2k that runs about 5db.

So I corrected for this by raising them in the Audessy eq. It dawned on me however that there are two approached to this. You can do s I did And simply raise the 1k 2k 5db. It occurred to me tonight that you could go another route by dropping the other frequencies to match the dip.

If I had to guess its best to do as I did. I figured I will simply ask. Which is the best way?


As an side note. After adjusting the speakers they are completely different and it is amazing. As you may or may not know 1k 2k is human voice range and many people complain of klipsch voice in movies. This it seems to me is the reason. Also so many reviews call the speakers bassy and forward sounding. This is also why. Incredible.
serialmike is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 11 Old 09-17-2013, 08:50 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
arnyk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Grosse Pointe Woods, MI
Posts: 14,387
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 762 Post(s)
Liked: 1175
Quote:
Originally Posted by serialmike View Post

Hi all. Thanks in advance.

My situation is this. Have Klipsch RF82 fronts and RC62 center. I measured them in my last house but never corrected. Mv them to a new house with completely different room and came I with similar respone. The klipsch Reference series seems to have a dip at 1k and 2k that runs about 5db.

So I corrected for this by raising them in the Audessy eq. It dawned on me however that there are two approached to this. You can do s I did And simply raise the 1k 2k 5db. It occurred to me tonight that you could go another route by dropping the other frequencies to match the dip.

If I had to guess its best to do as I did. I figured I will simply ask. Which is the best way?

Most authorities will tell you that the best equalization is the one that does the most cutting of amplitudes. Cut before boost is a common guideline.

As long as you don't exceed the dynamic range of your system and cause distortion, it really doesn't matter. The cut before boost rule tends to reduce the probability of exceeding the dynamic range of your system with clipping, but it also includes the risk of making the system more noisy.
serialmike likes this.
arnyk is offline  
post #3 of 11 Old 09-18-2013, 05:39 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
serialmike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 2,745
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 17
First, thank you for the response.

In response to your reply I add the system to reach reference levels is calibrated to -2 to -4db on the speakers. This means that for the dip at 1k and 2k frequency they are about 1 to 3 db over 0 at reference volume on the amp when adjusted. Hope that makes sense.

I tend to agree with cut rather than boost which is why I asked but with that said cutting the higher frequencies to match the dip would then mean that most of the frequency range would be boosted at 1-3 db over 0 at reference volume as I would then need to boost the overall speaker levels once adjusted.

I guess in this situation where the amplification matches the room so close trying it both ways and seeing which is best is best.

Also of note I very rarely listen to movies of tv over -15db on the dial. Music if the source is low I can get up there around -8 to -5

The receiver is a denon 1913.
serialmike is offline  
post #4 of 11 Old 09-18-2013, 06:56 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
arnyk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Grosse Pointe Woods, MI
Posts: 14,387
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 762 Post(s)
Liked: 1175
Quote:
Originally Posted by serialmike View Post

First, thank you for the response.

In response to your reply I add the system to reach reference levels is calibrated to -2 to -4db on the speakers. This means that for the dip at 1k and 2k frequency they are about 1 to 3 db over 0 at reference volume on the amp when adjusted. Hope that makes sense.

It makes sense and it is small enough that it probably doesn't matter whether you boost or cut.

A lot of guidelines like this one come from live sound which is kinda like meatball surgery and involves 10-15 dB eq at times.
Quote:
I tend to agree with cut rather than boost which is why I asked but with that said cutting the higher frequencies to match the dip would then mean that most of the frequency range would be boosted at 1-3 db over 0 at reference volume as I would then need to boost the overall speaker levels once adjusted.

If you have to boost so much of the spectrum to use a cut at the point of eq then you've turned the advice on its head and I don't recommend that.
Quote:
I guess in this situation where the amplification matches the room so close trying it both ways and seeing which is best is best.

Or, apply the rule: "If its not broke, don't fix it".
Quote:
Also of note I very rarely listen to movies of tv over -15db on the dial. Music if the source is low I can get up there around -8 to -5

I don't listen to much over -15 to -10 as well, and have have about 3 dB headroom over reference level, so we have yet another case where the AVR amps are more than adequate.
Quote:
The receiver is a denon 1913.

Speak of the devil. That's my new AVR. ;-)
arnyk is offline  
post #5 of 11 Old 09-18-2013, 07:35 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
serialmike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 2,745
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 17
serialmike is offline  
post #6 of 11 Old 09-18-2013, 05:39 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Wayne A. Pflughaupt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Katy, TX USA
Posts: 2,003
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 12

Hey Mike,

Another common rule of equalization is minimal filtering. It simply makes no sense to throw out a whole slew of filters to reduce response across the board to address a single problem at 1-2 kHz. That basically has the equalization functioning as a level control, which is really poor form.

But for the sake of argument, let’s go with that. So you cut response by say, 5 dB everywhere above 1-2 kHz, and everywhere below 1-2 kHz. Well, if you electronically cut the entire frequency spectrum everywhere except at 1-2 kHz, what to you end up with? Quite naturally, a 5 dB spike at 1-2 kHz!

In other words, you’ve accomplished the same exact thing as if you had simply applied a filter or two at 1-2 kHz boosted 5 dB.

Improved headroom one way or the other isn’t an issue. With the all-cut scenario, you’ve lowered your output across the board by 5 dB. So you know are going to basically run the system at a higher volume setting than you were before, to make up for it. So, say “goodbye” to any headroom you thought you saved by going the cut-only route. Indeed, as Arny indicated, this method may well get you increased overall system noise.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt
Wayne A. Pflughaupt is offline  
post #7 of 11 Old 09-18-2013, 05:46 PM
AVS Special Member
 
primetimeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 3,868
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 159 Post(s)
Liked: 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by serialmike View Post

Hi all. Thanks in advance.

My situation is this. Have Klipsch RF82 fronts and RC62 center. I measured them in my last house but never corrected. Mv them to a new house with completely different room and came I with similar respone. The klipsch Reference series seems to have a dip at 1k and 2k that runs about 5db.

So I corrected for this by raising them in the Audessy eq. It dawned on me however that there are two approached to this. You can do s I did And simply raise the 1k 2k 5db. It occurred to me tonight that you could go another route by dropping the other frequencies to match the dip.

If I had to guess its best to do as I did. I figured I will simply ask. Which is the best way?


As an side note. After adjusting the speakers they are completely different and it is amazing. As you may or may not know 1k 2k is human voice range and many people complain of klipsch voice in movies. This it seems to me is the reason. Also so many reviews call the speakers bassy and forward sounding. This is also why. Incredible.

 

Are you using the Audyssey Pro Kit or simply the manual EQ built into your receiver, which is not Audyssey?

primetimeguy is online now  
post #8 of 11 Old 09-18-2013, 07:49 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
serialmike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 2,745
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 17
I do not have pro. I have to goto Audessy and enable eq and then use a manual adjust. I thought that is Audessy.

Anyway, I stayed with the boost 1k and 2k ended up being just 3 or 4db. I don't hear noise or distortion so far. Much improved sound. Now voices are so much better as 1-2k is where voice is. Opened the speakers up tremendously.

Toggling eq on and off confirms much improvement. If I blind listened to them I would think they were 2 different speakers with the default sound being muffled garbage.
serialmike is offline  
post #9 of 11 Old 09-18-2013, 08:28 PM
AVS Special Member
 
primetimeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 3,868
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 159 Post(s)
Liked: 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by serialmike View Post

I do not have pro. I have to goto Audessy and enable eq and then use a manual adjust. I thought that is Audessy.

Anyway, I stayed with the boost 1k and 2k ended up being just 3 or 4db. I don't hear noise or distortion so far. Much improved sound. Now voices are so much better as 1-2k is where voice is. Opened the speakers up tremendously.

Toggling eq on and off confirms much improvement. If I blind listened to them I would think they were 2 different speakers with the default sound being muffled garbage.

 

Glad you like the improvement.  Just note that by using manual EQ you are no longer using Audyssey so any EQ that was done to the sub and other channels is now not in the chain.

primetimeguy is online now  
post #10 of 11 Old 09-18-2013, 08:58 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
serialmike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 2,745
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Never used Audessy. Prefer the natural surround processing setup properly. I'd rather have this dip fixed. Thanks didn't know that though.
serialmike is offline  
post #11 of 11 Old 09-19-2013, 03:58 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
arnyk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Grosse Pointe Woods, MI
Posts: 14,387
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 762 Post(s)
Liked: 1175
Quote:
Originally Posted by serialmike View Post


Toggling eq on and off confirms much improvement. If I blind listened to them I would think they were 2 different speakers with the default sound being muffled garbage.

Which makes a point - Audyssey can make the showroom sound of speakers far less of an issue.
serialmike likes this.
arnyk is offline  
Reply Audio Theory, Setup, and Chat

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off