New Speaker Setup on acoustical mess of a room - Go with High fronts? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 14 Old 09-18-2013, 05:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello everyone,
This is my first post and I'm quiet a newb on the matter. I've searched but haven't gotten very many ideas on if it's worth adding the extra two channels I have (back surrounds) and putting them as wide or high fronts. I wanted to use the speaker mounts and connector I have from a previous speaker setup if it would be worth buying an extra pair of speakers. I recently got rid of my Sony HTIB and bought a Denon AVR-1912 for a steal ($242) and the Martin Logan MLT-2's for $200 from new egg. My budget was tight and considering I have to pay international shipping, taxes, etc. I'll end up paying almost double the cost when it all arrives on friday.
I'm posting pictures of my tv room to give you guys an idea of the acoustical mess of a room it is, and if you could give me some pointers as to improve it. As you can see, the TV room is next to the stairs, which also has a typical tall window on the stair rest and 4 wooden doors. Since the room is small (10' W x 14' L, with 10' ceilings) I had to place the sectional sofa against the back wall and thus place the the surround speakers there too. (Should I consider speaker brackets that will position the speaker on a 100 degree angle?) Another thing to consider is the front speaker placement. I was thinking of getting speaker stands to put on the sides of the 52" Toshiba, instead of putting them on the table as I did before to widen things up; AND scooting the subwoofer 2 feet from the corner where the other one was. Would there be any difference?

I appreciate all your help, input and comments!

Thanks in advance from Costa Rica! cool.gif

-Christian











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post #2 of 14 Old 09-19-2013, 02:56 AM
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Originally Posted by cquiros View Post

Hello everyone,
This is my first post and I'm quiet a newb on the matter. I've searched but haven't gotten very many ideas on if it's worth adding the extra two channels I have (back surrounds) and putting them as wide or high fronts. I wanted to use the speaker mounts and connector I have from a previous speaker setup if it would be worth buying an extra pair of speakers. I recently got rid of my Sony HTIB and bought a Denon AVR-1912 for a steal ($242) and the Martin Logan MLT-2's for $200 from new egg. My budget was tight and considering I have to pay international shipping, taxes, etc. I'll end up paying almost double the cost when it all arrives on friday.
I'm posting pictures of my tv room to give you guys an idea of the acoustical mess of a room it is, and if you could give me some pointers as to improve it. As you can see, the TV room is next to the stairs, which also has a typical tall window on the stair rest and 4 wooden doors. Since the room is small (10' W x 14' L, with 10' ceilings) I had to place the sectional sofa against the back wall and thus place the the surround speakers there too. (Should I consider speaker brackets that will position the speaker on a 100 degree angle?) Another thing to consider is the front speaker placement. I was thinking of getting speaker stands to put on the sides of the 52" Toshiba, instead of putting them on the table as I did before to widen things up; AND scooting the subwoofer 2 feet from the corner where the other one was. Would there be any difference?

Would it be possible to reorient the room?

One comment about the speakers. In the current configuration, there is no need to keep the speakers at the plane of the screen. You could mount them on the wall behind the screen which would simplify things and put them in a more favorable acoustical environment.
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post #3 of 14 Old 09-19-2013, 06:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

Would it be possible to reorient the room?

One comment about the speakers. In the current configuration, there is no need to keep the speakers at the plane of the screen. You could mount them on the wall behind the screen which would simplify things and put them in a more favorable acoustical environment.

Thank you very much for your comment, but unfortunately I can't reorient the room. I had to flip everything because the couch was almost at the edge of the stairs and in the way when coming up. The wall behind the TV is 4 feet back from the rail. So putting the front and high/wide speakers in that far wall would be a better acoustical option? Do you recommend the wide or high speakers? Thanks!
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post #4 of 14 Old 09-19-2013, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

Would it be possible to reorient the room?

One comment about the speakers. In the current configuration, there is no need to keep the speakers at the plane of the screen. You could mount them on the wall behind the screen which would simplify things and put them in a more favorable acoustical environment.

Thank you very much for your comment, but unfortunately I can't reorient the room. I had to flip everything because the couch was almost at the edge of the stairs and in the way when coming up.

I had to ask. It is what it is.
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The wall behind the TV is 4 feet back from the rail.

That gives you about 4 milliseconds of delay, which is negligible from the standpoint of synchronization with the video.
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So putting the front and high/wide speakers in that far wall would be a better acoustical option?

Putting regular bookshelf speakers closer to the wall than 4 feet is usually how they were meant to be used.
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Do you recommend the wide or high speakers? !

Given the messiness of this system, I'd first try to get the L, R & C speakers to work right before making things more complex with additional speakers. Then add the rears and get that right. Then frost the cake.
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post #5 of 14 Old 09-20-2013, 01:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks! Awesome info. In a nut shell, considering my equipment and my room dimensions/ shape, how would you set it up or where would you place each speaker? Would you consider getting speaker stands for the front L/R speakers to widen the stage ideal?
Thanks in advance!
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post #6 of 14 Old 09-20-2013, 01:24 PM
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I would place the surround speakers in the back corners of the room, mounted on the side walls, at least a couple of feet above ear height, pointing down at the listening area.

Where you have them in the pic is mere inches away from the listeners' ears and will be very distracting when watching a movie.

Sanjay
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post #7 of 14 Old 09-20-2013, 01:32 PM - Thread Starter
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How about the front?
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post #8 of 14 Old 09-20-2013, 01:50 PM
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There are two seats in the middle of the room that seem to be the sweet spot. Draw a line from between the two seats to the front of the room. Slide your AV rack so that the centre speaker is on that line. That will make your set-up symmetrical (balanced left to right).

Your pic has the 3 front speakers at the same height. That is what I would do as well. When sounds move from left to right across the soundstage, they won't go up and down in height, which happens on set-ups where the centre speaker is at a different height than the L/R speakers.

Also in your drawing, you have the L/R speakers right next to the AV rack. You can spread them apart (symmetrically) to get a wider soundstage. Of course be careful that your right front speaker isn't too close to the stairs.

Finally, even in this day and age of surround sound, the front soundstage remains critical. That is where your attention will be focused, whether watching a movie or listening to music. The front right side of your room is open while the front left side has a wall. This will cause an imbalance in the reflections. At some point in the future, you should consider putting a large absorber on the left side wall near the front of the room to mimic the open right side. That will restore left to right balance and make your soundstage consistent on both sides.

Sanjay
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post #9 of 14 Old 09-20-2013, 03:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Wow! Great insight. Thank you so much for your time and tips! The one thing I have to figure out is how to tune my subwoofer, since the audessy calibration from my Denon receiver didn't help me with that. :s
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post #10 of 14 Old 09-20-2013, 04:07 PM
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I would start the subwoofer closer to the listening position, meaning on the left side wall, just forward the two doors. If you like what you hear, great. If not, then start pushing the sub forward (towards the AV rack) a couple of feet at a time until the bass sounds good to you. Re-run Audyssey to get the levels and delays correct.

Finally, if you do decide to do height speakers, then the locations you marked in the pic are excellent choices. High up and wide apart. But again, the right height speaker will be next to an opening while the left height speaker won't. Seriously consider getting some absorption panels in the future to balance the reflections between the left and right sides of your soundstage.

Good luck. Your system should sound terrific once it is up and running.

Sanjay
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post #11 of 14 Old 09-20-2013, 05:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Nice! I will definitely try putting the subwoofer further towards me and if it works there (in the middle of the side wall) it will be perfect, cause that way I will be able to fit a speaker stand in the corner where the sub is currently at.
I'm glad you consider the upper speaker mounts/Connectors ideal in order to complete the 7.1 setup with height speakers (although I would like that 2nd zone too, to use it with a 4 pair speaker switch, to use in the master bathroom, kitchen, back yard and deck). What are your thoughts on using such a switch with those two spare channels from zone 2?

Thank you very much again!
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post #12 of 14 Old 09-20-2013, 05:21 PM - Thread Starter
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One other thing. Could you recommend a good sound absorber (size too) that wouldn't break the bank? Would something like a rug- like cloth painting,etc do the trick too?
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post #13 of 14 Old 09-20-2013, 07:29 PM
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Don't know much about speaker selectors and multi-room audio, so can't help you there. BTW, you don't have to do height speakers if you want to use those 2 channels for another room. I was just letting you know that you had picked good locations (I've seen people put height speakers a few inches above their L/R speakers, like that's really going to give a sense of height).

The cheapest way to get absorbers is to make them, using rigid fiberglass (Owens Corning 703 from a local insulation supplier) wrapped in speaker grill cloth (which is acoustically transparent). The absorbers should be at least 4 inches thick. Like I said, that's something you can do in the future.

Sanjay
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post #14 of 14 Old 09-24-2013, 01:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you so much for all your time and input!
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