Your Preferred Setup When Using Digital Media As A Source - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 54 Old 10-01-2013, 11:36 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
ridindirty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 53
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 21
I'd like to preface this with something, if you dont mind. I do copious amounts of research on pretty much any topic, but Audio must be the most anemic, least enjoyable thing to research that I have ever had the pleasure to have as a hobby. I hate to start a thread on a broad topic such as this which should obviously be researched first... but I promise you, I have been researching constantly for 2-3 weeks now on a plethora of topcs and I just want to enjoy some music. Hence this thread. smile.gif Oh, also... I am probably going to ask some questions (assuming this thread takes off) about controversial issues such as the quality of digital connections and the pros and cons. I realize these issues immediately devolve into a pissing match between a few parties that more than likely make researching these topics the center of their life. If thats you (protip: If you google these topics and 9/10 AVS threads revolve around you debating, I am probably referring to you) please understand that while I like to learn, I have absolutely ZERO interest in understanding these topics as well as you do, so making this thread an argument about jitter really isnt helping anyone.



Ok.... cool.gif



To the topic at hand... What is your preferred setup for digital? I have 250+ gigs of music (and growing), at least 70% being flac, and ~15% being 24/96+. I am looking for input and opinions regarding setup.

Right now my setup is: HTPC > TOSLINK (from motherboard) > Marantz SR9200 > Paradigm Studio 60 v.3's.


First off, I kinda side with the camp that any D/A chip for the past 10 yrs should be able to be able to handle D/A conversion fine, so I am more concerned with sound signature, design, and a decent amp section, hence the SR9200. Its in fantastic condition and I bought it cheap on CL. However, since it has 24/192 DACs, I thought it would play 24/192 files. It wont play them. I've done some reading, but I cant tell if its because of the TOSLINK cable or not. I *think* its not capable, but the threads are full of debate and conjecture. Also, the SR9200 specifically has a '96kHz' light on the front, so I presume it maxes out at 24/96 as well. Although the literature doesnt say as much, it does imply it.
So: What is the TOSLINK maxing out at, and just based off my crappy explanation, would you tend to assume the SR9200 only plays 24/96?

Second off, my motherboard TOSLINK out sucks. Its kinda loose and such. Again its not the end of the world (being digital and all), but theres no way im putting up with it. So, because of that and the above, I am trying to figure out the best way to output sound from the HTPC. I prefer to go Digital Coaxial... I dont have a great reason, pretty much thats what my research led me to believe has higher bandwidth and is slightly 'preferred'. However, I cant really find a decent soundcard with Digital Coaxial out that isnt 170 bucks (The Asus's), and they all headphone amps and bunch of junk I dont need. I could go USB > DAC > Analog on the SR9200, but Id prefer to use the internal DACs... again for no scientific reason. Rather because I dont see how a cheap DAC is going to be better than the onboard DAC's of my SR9200.
So: What do you run? Are there any go-to soundcards I havent found when researching? Should I just go TOSLINK and stop worrying?

Third, this Marantz is pretty nice and I like the sound signature, but I can pick up a Anthem MCA20 for a very reasonable price and have been playing with the idea. So I could solve some of my issues (I assume the 24/96 max on the SR9200) by going amp + pre amp... but I probably would buy an older pre/sound processor (Im sure you see the trend here).
So: Would it necessarily have the same issues (has 24/192 dacs but doesnt play 24/192)? I was thinking of matching the amp with an older Anthem Pre as well.




Sorry for the long post. Figured it was better to air out my thoughts and hope you guys wanted to help. Please feel free to take the thread wherever as long as it revolves around the premise. I'd love to hear what you run, and why.

Thanks
ridindirty is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 54 Old 10-02-2013, 03:52 AM
AVS Special Member
 
kiwi2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 1,630
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 144
PC > HDMI > AVR.
67jason likes this.
kiwi2 is offline  
post #3 of 54 Old 10-02-2013, 04:26 AM
Moderator
 
PooperScooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Leominster MA
Posts: 19,961
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 71 Post(s)
Liked: 333
For audio only find the cheapest PC or laptop you can find ( it doesn't have to be new or "current". I use a 5 year old Samsung Netbook for my digital "front end") and use USB output. If your AVR does not have USB input get a USB to toslink or coax converter. I haven't looked at the cost of the adapters/converters but it could be cheaper to find an inline USB dac and connect to analog inputs on AVR. If you want to do processing in the AVR on the audio, then you're probably better off sending digital to the AVR.

If you want to do video from the same front end, or MCH audio, then you may need something different. You can even do PCM output from your phone or tablet, now, via USB. They just can't hold as much music as something with a disk drive. And, another option is an iPod with the proper dock to send PCM to your AVR.

larry

Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. -- Thomas Alva Edison
PooperScooper is offline  
post #4 of 54 Old 10-02-2013, 05:16 AM
AVS Special Member
 
67jason's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,906
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 78 Post(s)
Liked: 794
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwi2 View Post

PC > HDMI > AVR.

+1! End of thread since the OP doesn't want this to turn into any kind of pissing debate match. smile.gif

I don't need snobs to tell me how to think, thank you!
67jason is offline  
post #5 of 54 Old 10-02-2013, 08:24 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
ridindirty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 53
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Lol. You guys didn't notice I'm not utilizing HDMI?

Does digital coax handle 24/192 non-true hd and such signals?
ridindirty is online now  
post #6 of 54 Old 10-02-2013, 09:07 AM
FMW
AVS Special Member
 
FMW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,339
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 475 Post(s)
Liked: 831
My music, digital and analog, is all digitized to a hard drive on my local area network. I use a WiFi connected Logitech Squeezebox to connect that content to my AV Receiver via Toslink cable. My CD's are in storage. I use a Samsung 5900 Blu Ray player to play video discs and on line content.
FMW is online now  
post #7 of 54 Old 10-02-2013, 09:08 AM
FMW
AVS Special Member
 
FMW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,339
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 475 Post(s)
Liked: 831
Quote:
Originally Posted by ridindirty View Post

Lol. You guys didn't notice I'm not utilizing HDMI?

Does digital coax handle 24/192 non-true hd and such signals?

Yes, the connecting cable has nothing to do with the makeup of the data stream.
FMW is online now  
post #8 of 54 Old 10-02-2013, 09:30 AM
Senior Member
 
Thatsnasty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Niagara Falls, Ontario
Posts: 480
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked: 30
I have HDMI and Optical from my PC > Receiver.
I use Optical for everything except watching movies.... HDMI is required to send surround formats from PC > AVR to decode.
As far as I know, digital coax / optical only does DD and DTS.
Thatsnasty is online now  
post #9 of 54 Old 10-02-2013, 09:33 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
ridindirty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 53
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW View Post

Yes, the connecting cable has nothing to do with the makeup of the data stream.

You kinda lost me. Are you pointing out the obvious here (not trying to be trite, I'm literally confused).

My point was I'm not running HDMI to my AVR and I don't plan on it.
ridindirty is online now  
post #10 of 54 Old 10-02-2013, 09:35 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
ridindirty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 53
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatsnasty View Post

I have HDMI and Optical from my PC > Receiver.
I use Optical for everything except watching movies.... HDMI is required to send surround formats from PC > AVR to decode.
As far as I know, digital coax / optical only does DD and DTS.
So the optical will send 24/192 non surround formats to your AVR?

Thanks
ridindirty is online now  
post #11 of 54 Old 10-02-2013, 09:51 AM
Advanced Member
 
andyc56's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 674
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by ridindirty View Post

Lol. You guys didn't notice I'm not utilizing HDMI?

Hmm. I'm looking at the title of this thread, and it says "Your Preferred Setup When Using Digital Media As A Source".
andyc56 is offline  
post #12 of 54 Old 10-02-2013, 10:03 AM
Senior Member
 
Thatsnasty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Niagara Falls, Ontario
Posts: 480
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by ridindirty View Post

So the optical will send 24/192 non surround formats to your AVR?

Thanks

If you right click on your speaker settings, go to playback devices, and find your devices (be it optical, hdmi, etc.. ) then click properties, and find "supported formats" tab across the top, it should tell you.

This is accurate, AFAIK. I'm using optical right now I can test tone anything from 48khz to 192khz and my receiver will change accordingly until the tone is done.
This should work for 16-24 bit as well.

Interestingly enough it says it supports DD and DTS as well but they don't work without using HDMI... weird.

So, yeah.... works for me!
Thatsnasty is online now  
post #13 of 54 Old 10-02-2013, 10:07 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
ridindirty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 53
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by andyc56 View Post

Hmm. I'm looking at the title of this thread, and it says "Your Preferred Setup When Using Digital Media As A Source".
Lol. Touche.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatsnasty View Post

If you right click on your speaker settings, go to playback devices, and find your devices (be it optical, hdmi, etc.. ) then click properties, and find "supported formats" tab across the top, it should tell you.

This is accurate, AFAIK. I'm using optical right now I can test tone anything from 48khz to 192khz and my receiver will change accordingly until the tone is done.
This should work for 16-24 bit as well.

Interestingly enough it says it supports DD and DTS as well but they don't work without using HDMI... weird.

So, yeah.... works for me!
Yep, I've set that up. I can choose 24/192 but it won't output to my AVR.... Or I should say, my AVR says "No signal".
ridindirty is online now  
post #14 of 54 Old 10-02-2013, 10:16 AM
Senior Member
 
Thatsnasty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Niagara Falls, Ontario
Posts: 480
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by ridindirty View Post

Lol. Touche.
Yep, I've set that up. I can choose 24/192 but it won't output to my AVR.... Or I should say, my AVR says "No signal".

Is that from clicking "test" in the supported formats screen?
Are you sure your receiver / DAC actually supports it? It seems to like it doesn't like 192's. I really don't think 192 is worth getting over 96khz though, imo, it's kind of overkill. I don't personally think you could really tell the difference.

To actually get my receiver to recognize a surround format, I have to open a blue ray and change my media player to bit stream over HDMI.
I've never tried a 96khz/192khz audio (aside from testing just now) but I would assume you have to do the same thing.

That being said, if it's giving you a no signal error when you try to test it, it just may not support that high of a bit rate.
Thatsnasty is online now  
post #15 of 54 Old 10-02-2013, 10:55 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
ridindirty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 53
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatsnasty View Post

Is that from clicking "test" in the supported formats screen?
Are you sure your receiver / DAC actually supports it? It seems to like it doesn't like 192's. I really don't think 192 is worth getting over 96khz though, imo, it's kind of overkill. I don't personally think you could really tell the difference.

To actually get my receiver to recognize a surround format, I have to open a blue ray and change my media player to bit stream over HDMI.
I've never tried a 96khz/192khz audio (aside from testing just now) but I would assume you have to do the same thing.

That being said, if it's giving you a no signal error when you try to test it, it just may not support that high of a bit rate.

Well, if I select 24/192 it won't output sound, so I don't have it selected. Regardless of the test button or if I choose a 24/192 flac.

I agree on both points, 192 is probably overkill and it does seem like the AVR doesn't support it. Which confuses me because it has 24/192 DACs. What else would they be used for? I could have sworn the motherboard optical out supported 24/192, but it just dawned on me that could be an issue as well. One of the reasons starting these redundant threads helps sometimes... Talking about your setup gets you thinking differently. biggrin.gif
ridindirty is online now  
post #16 of 54 Old 10-02-2013, 03:05 PM
FMW
AVS Special Member
 
FMW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,339
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 475 Post(s)
Liked: 831
Actually none of those formats sound any different from redbook 16/44.1 in blind listening comparisons.
FMW is online now  
post #17 of 54 Old 10-02-2013, 08:04 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
ridindirty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 53
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW View Post

Actually none of those formats sound any different from redbook 16/44.1 in blind listening comparisons.

So they say. cool.gif
ridindirty is online now  
post #18 of 54 Old 10-02-2013, 08:37 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Spanglo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,712
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 159 Post(s)
Liked: 230
HTPC > Jriver MediaCenter > HDMI > AVR = Joy.

 


PSN - Hapi_Kilmore_v3
My 6.4.4 Living Room HT
Spanglo is offline  
post #19 of 54 Old 10-02-2013, 11:04 PM
Advanced Member
 
Patrick Collins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Nokomis, Fl. USA
Posts: 602
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked: 43
After 15 posts, in your infinite wisdom, you thought the members of this highly regarded forum needed a dressing down before they starting helping you.

Good luck with that.

I'm choosing to otherwise not respond.

Patrick
Patrick Collins is offline  
post #20 of 54 Old 10-02-2013, 11:40 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
ridindirty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 53
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Collins View Post

After 15 posts, in your infinite wisdom, you thought the members of this highly regarded forum needed a dressing down before they starting helping you.

Good luck with that.

I'm choosing to otherwise not respond.

I think I had 5 posts when I started this thread. Way to take the high road and "not respond". rolleyes.gif


It wasnt a dressing down. Find me a thread on digital sources that doesnt devolve into a redundant debate that hasnt been done here 1000 times before. I've researched and read a bunch of the threads. Having my thread go down that road is a waste of my time.
ridindirty is online now  
post #21 of 54 Old 10-03-2013, 02:45 AM
AVS Special Member
 
mtn-tech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Nevada
Posts: 1,078
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 186 Post(s)
Liked: 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by ridindirty View Post

What is your preferred setup for digital? ... i am looking for input and opinions regarding setup.

Since you are asking, my preference is USB directly to my DAC which happens to be one of the many input options on my DAC / BD player. I don't much like the idea of connecting a noisy (electrically and possibly audibly) directly to my system.

Quote:
First off, I kinda side with the camp that any D/A chip for the past 10 yrs should be able to be able to handle D/A conversion fine ... However, since it has 24/192 DACs, I thought it would play 24/192 files ... I presume it maxes out at 24/96 as well.
Quote:
What is the TOSLINK maxing out at, and just based off my crappy explanation, would you tend to assume the SR9200 only plays 24/96?

I know that I've read a dozen times in many different places that the max of S/PDIF (optical or coax) is 24/96k - in fact on this very forum there is a thread that states: "The maximum S/PDIF capacity is 96 KHz at 20bits with 24 bits optional for two channels." Which would seem to match up with your component's max capabilities even though its internal DACs have higher resolution.

Quote:
I'd love to hear what you run, and why

I use an external hard drive array attached directly via USB to my Oppo BDP-105 BluRay player which is connected to my 2 Ch system - not because I can hear the difference between lesser DACs but because I like the simplicity of a single source component.

2-Ch (HT L/R): Oppo BDP-105 BD, Adcom GFP-750 pre, Bryston 10B Sub Xover, Bryston 4BSST2 / Paradigm Signature S4 v.2 (L/R), (2) SVS SB12-NSD (Subs)
Home Theater: Bryston 4BSST2 amp / Paradigm CC-590 (C), Outlaw 7700 amp / (4) Def Tech UIW-RSSII (LS/RS/LB/RB), Samsung 46” 3D LCD
mtn-tech is offline  
post #22 of 54 Old 10-03-2013, 03:33 AM
AVS Special Member
 
kiwi2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 1,630
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by andyc56 View Post

Hmm. I'm looking at the title of this thread, and it says "Your Preferred Setup When Using Digital Media As A Source".

He should have called it "I like doing things arse-backwards".
kiwi2 is offline  
post #23 of 54 Old 10-03-2013, 08:52 AM
Senior Member
 
kraut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 379
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 60
Desktop with two peripheral hard-drives - spdif - hypex AS 2.100 - klipsch heresy/subwoofer
kraut is offline  
post #24 of 54 Old 10-03-2013, 12:57 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
ridindirty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 53
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtn-tech View Post

I know that I've read a dozen times in many different places that the max of S/PDIF (optical or coax) is 24/96k - in fact on this very forum there is a thread that states: "The maximum S/PDIF capacity is 96 KHz at 20bits with 24 bits optional for two channels." Which would seem to match up with your component's max capabilities even though its internal DACs have higher resolution.
I would disagree. Heres a thread right here that states the max headroom is above 24/96: http://www.avsforum.com/t/972048/s-pdif-max-bitrate/0_50 There are numerous threads such as this all over this and other forums.

Second off, without a HDMI or USB in on the AVR, if it were impossible to input 24/192, why would it have 24/192 DACs? (Marketing, component choice, etc. There are reason I know.. but it still doesnt make much sense to me.)



Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwi2 View Post

He should have called it "I like doing things arse-backwards".

Dont derail my thread with your trash.
ridindirty is online now  
post #25 of 54 Old 10-03-2013, 01:22 PM
FMW
AVS Special Member
 
FMW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,339
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 475 Post(s)
Liked: 831
You posted in a public forum. It is now our thread.
FMW is online now  
post #26 of 54 Old 10-03-2013, 01:59 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mcnarus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,190
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 125 Post(s)
Liked: 327
Quote:
You posted in a public forum. It is now our thread.
Not to get all kumbaya and s**t, but it's everyone's thread.

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

mcnarus is online now  
post #27 of 54 Old 10-03-2013, 02:43 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
ridindirty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 53
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 21
You guys new to the Internet? It's common vernacular to refer to a thread as 'The OP's thread'. In this case that's me.

Quit trying to take umbrage with everything I post because you don't like my intro paragraph. It's not the end of the world.
ridindirty is online now  
post #28 of 54 Old 10-03-2013, 03:44 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mcnarus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,190
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 125 Post(s)
Liked: 327
Quote:
You guys new to the Internet? It's common vernacular to refer to a thread as 'The OP's thread'.
Sure it is, but when you say it yourself, and especially like this:
Quote:
Dont derail my thread with your trash.
you risk coming off as a bit of a jerk. Granted, the specific post you responded to wasn't exactly the height of tact, either, but as my dad used to say about traffic backups, it's the second car that makes the line.

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

mcnarus is online now  
post #29 of 54 Old 10-03-2013, 04:50 PM
AVS Special Member
 
MarkHotchkiss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Long Beach, California
Posts: 1,476
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 82
Hi Ridindirty,

Sorry that I'm so late to your thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ridindirty View Post

Does digital coax handle 24/192 non-true hd and such signals?
Toslink and digital-coax are actually identical, except for the medium. They both support two channels of PCM at 24 bits up to 96kHz. That's the spec, but some manufacturers have pushed the spec to include 192kHz. Support for 192kHz is spotty, with the small guys being the dominant adapters and the big guys steering clear. For support reasons, I suspect Marantz is in the latter category.

As for the lossy formats, Toslink and digital-coax also supports Dolby-Digital 5.1 and DTS core.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ridindirty View Post

. . . without a HDMI or USB in on the AVR, if it were impossible to input 24/192, why would it have 24/192 DACs?
Although there may be no way to input 192kHz digital-audio, there are many good reasons to process the audio at 192kHz. I suspect that Marantz is using an architecture where the DAC and some of the DSP firmware always runs at 192kHz, and all other signals are up-sampled prior to processing.
MarkHotchkiss is offline  
post #30 of 54 Old 10-03-2013, 05:59 PM
FMW
AVS Special Member
 
FMW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,339
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 475 Post(s)
Liked: 831
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnarus View Post

Sure it is, but when you say it yourself, and especially like this:
you risk coming off as a bit of a jerk. Granted, the specific post you responded to wasn't exactly the height of tact, either, but as my dad used to say about traffic backups, it's the second car that makes the line.

I'll give him credit for full jerkness.
FMW is online now  
Reply Audio Theory, Setup, and Chat

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off