Potential Audioquest ShootOut - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 40 Old 10-08-2013, 06:58 AM - Thread Starter
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So i'm am of neither camp and let me MAKE THIS CLEAR. THIS IS NOT A THREAD FOR ANY ARGUMENTS ON THE MATTER OR +1ING OF ANY CAMPS. This is simply a thread i am putting out there for something I would like to do if any calibrators were interested.

Again Please do not bicker on this thread.

I have serached the forums and I have read much from both camps points of view. I have come to my own conclusions and yet one constant thing that i see in all the arguing is never any actual testing. As much as people complain that there is no data or no facts supporting audioquests claims, I cannot for the life of me find a shootout comparison of cables in any type of system(entry level, mid level, enthusiast or otherwise). If someone can point me in the direction of a HDMI cable comparison I would love to read it but if not....

I work for a company that gives me a pretty good price on audioquest cables and if any calibrators were interested I would like to conduct an hdmi cable shoot out.(i do not have the tools or know how at this point in time to get any kind of accurate data or perform the comparison).

I would like to compare various types ranging from rocketfish, monster, audioquest, monoprice and get some actual empirical data to compare.

Will this end debates or arguments on the matter? I dont believe it will. But I hope this will atleast give the community some data to stand(or not stand) by.

If any calibrators would be interested in doing this I am located in Charleston, SC area and my system specs are posted below and feel free to PM me.

System:
TV: Panasonic 60VT60
Receiver: Pioneer Elite SC - 55
Power Center : Panamax m7500 PRO and Monster HTPS 1600
Bluray: Oppo BDP-103
Front L & R : Def Tech BP8080ST
Center : Def Tech CS8080HD
Surround Back L & R: Klipsch KS-14(Have a set of Def Tech BPVX's that we can hook up or hook up for 7.2 configuration or replace the klipsch)
Currently using audioquest forest HDMI cables for connections and rocketfish speaker wire for speakers.

The Theater:
TV : Panasonic 60VT60
Receiver : Pioneer Elite SC - 55
Power Center : Panamax M7500 Pro
Bluray : Oppo 103
Gaming : Xbox 360
Front L & R : Def Tech BP8080ST
Center : Def Tech CS8080HD
Surround L & R : BPVX
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post #2 of 40 Old 10-08-2013, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anteroth View Post

I cannot for the life of me find a shootout comparison of cables in any type of system(entry level, mid level, enthusiast or otherwise). If someone can point me in the direction of a HDMI cable comparison I would love to read it but if not....

http://hdmi-cables-review.toptenreviews.com/
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post #3 of 40 Old 10-08-2013, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anteroth View Post

So i'm am of neither camp and let me MAKE THIS CLEAR. THIS IS NOT A THREAD FOR ANY ARGUMENTS ON THE MATTER OR +1ING OF ANY CAMPS. This is simply a thread i am putting out there for something I would like to do if any calibrators were interested.

Again Please do not bicker on this thread.

Good luck with that!

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post #4 of 40 Old 10-08-2013, 10:31 AM
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I like everything you said up until the part where you said "So".

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post #5 of 40 Old 10-08-2013, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anteroth View Post

System:
TV: Panasonic 60VT60
Receiver: Pioneer Elite SC - 55
Power Center : Panamax m7500 PRO and Monster HTPS 1600
Bluray: Oppo BDP-103
Front L & R : Def Tech BP8080ST
Center : Def Tech CS8080HD
Surround Back L & R: Klipsch KS-14(Have a set of Def Tech BPVX's that we can hook up or hook up for 7.2 configuration or replace the klipsch)
Currently using audioquest forest HDMI cables for connections and rocketfish speaker wire for speakers.

All I see in this list is consumer AV equipment.

I see nothing to measure electrical parameters, differences in the displayed image, and integrity of the data stream through each cable. What do you propose to do? Sit around and swap cables while looking at a BluRay?

What are you expecting to see? There are certainly bad HDMI cables and they are quite easy to single out. Hits, sparkles and the like. But this bunk of richer colors, deeper blacks, less noise is simply not possible in the way HDMI or similar digital interfaces like SDI work.

Why do you people who openly admit you have no technical background insist on arguing with the educated and experienced electrical engineering community?

What formal engineering credentials in any field does Bill Lowe have?

He's a salesman, look up his bio.
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post #6 of 40 Old 10-08-2013, 11:03 AM
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The question you must ask yourself is, what is this all about? The music? If so, then do simply what is practically necessary in service of the music, not what is suggested by those trying to lighten your wallet. Your music will not know the difference how much you paid for an interconnect, provided the cables are up to the very basic task of transmission of audio signals. That's pretty simple stuff, particularly for a digital interconnect. Don't fall for marketing hype. I would avoid Audioquest even at a discount because of their unscrupulous business model. That goes for all boutique wire. Shop at your local electronics wholesaler/surplus if you have one, or try monoprice. Go with BJC if you want 'exotic' wire. If you spend more than that, well, good on you for having money to burn, but you're on the McGurk path to audio nirvana. That path is invariably more expensive.
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post #7 of 40 Old 10-08-2013, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by anteroth View Post

Again Please do not bicker on this thread.
Congrats, you got 2 replies before it started...

But have a good time with your shootout, that kind of activity is a lot more fun and enlightening than arguing with superannuated trolls on the internets.
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post #8 of 40 Old 10-08-2013, 11:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post

All I see in this list is consumer AV equipment.

I see nothing to measure electrical parameters, differences in the displayed image, and integrity of the data stream through each cable. What do you propose to do? Sit around and swap cables while looking at a BluRay?

What are you expecting to see? There are certainly bad HDMI cables and they are quite easy to single out. Hits, sparkles and the like. But this bunk of richer colors, deeper blacks, less noise is simply not possible in the way HDMI or similar digital interfaces like SDI work.

Why do you people who openly admit you have no technical background insist on arguing with the educated and experienced electrical engineering community?

What formal engineering credentials in any field does Bill Lowe have?

He's a salesman, look up his bio.

Very Respectfully please do not post any provacative comments. I clearly stated i do not have the equipment or skills to measure. I simply have the means to aquire the cables and am looking for someone with the experience necessary to do the tests and experiment with me. The goal is to get the actual data and facts from the test. That is all.

The Theater:
TV : Panasonic 60VT60
Receiver : Pioneer Elite SC - 55
Power Center : Panamax M7500 Pro
Bluray : Oppo 103
Gaming : Xbox 360
Front L & R : Def Tech BP8080ST
Center : Def Tech CS8080HD
Surround L & R : BPVX
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post #9 of 40 Old 10-08-2013, 11:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Riffmeister View Post

Congrats, you got 2 replies before it started...

But have a good time with your shootout, that kind of activity is a lot more fun and enlightening than arguing with superannuated trolls on the internets.

Haha agreed...nothing i can do about it. If it gets out of hand ill just report to moderator.

The Theater:
TV : Panasonic 60VT60
Receiver : Pioneer Elite SC - 55
Power Center : Panamax M7500 Pro
Bluray : Oppo 103
Gaming : Xbox 360
Front L & R : Def Tech BP8080ST
Center : Def Tech CS8080HD
Surround L & R : BPVX
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post #10 of 40 Old 10-08-2013, 11:32 AM
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Anteroth, a genuine bias controlled comparison would indeed be an eye opener for you, and I suspect for Riffmiester as well. But feel free to disregard what those of us who've been there have to say, we don't know anything after all, being all textbooky and nerdish and statistics oriented. Just keep telling yourself that there is no correlation between the science and reality, and that magic wire claims are all true (which they are, in the sense that they do in fact alter your perception, at least until you control for non-audio influences, at which point they mysteriously go away).

Feel free to tattle to the mods for my sarcastic tone.
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post #11 of 40 Old 10-08-2013, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by anteroth View Post

Very Respectfully please do not post any provacative comments. I clearly stated i do not have the equipment or skills to measure. I simply have the means to aquire the cables and am looking for someone with the experience necessary to do the tests and experiment with me. The goal is to get the actual data and facts from the test. That is all.

Respectfully, you are proposing a test yet you have no idea of the complexity or the skills needed to do it properly. What I see you asking for is a pizza and beer party with an HT calibrator in attendance. That's hardly a scientific test. To do these types of tests you need to know how to approach it as an engineer or scientist. You aren't going to get meaningful results in the environment you propose. There are formal controls used in compiling the test data.

Since Audioquest has all the money, why can't they submit their claims to an accredited lab? Why won't they do that? Why do they leave it up to the home theater hobbiest to validate their claims?

My concern is you get some folks together and one of them has a Best Buy issue Sencore test set and you measure and post some results as verified data. Well that's not good enough. A test must be documented to institutional standards. A lot of back up data is needed such as measuring instrument calibration certificates for one and that's just a start.

My point is the method you propose is not valid as proof of anything.
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post #12 of 40 Old 10-08-2013, 01:42 PM
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Kudos to the OP for wanting to jump into this quagmire of a topic. It seems to me that he had the noblest of intentions. However the topic is settled and even a Manhattan Project level of resources would be unable to resolve this Coke vs. Pepsi argument.
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post #13 of 40 Old 10-08-2013, 03:33 PM
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Glimmie is entirely correct.

I used to work for a company that made A/V products. They wanted to include HDMI cables in the box with the piece of equipment they sold. So we, in engineering, had to evaluate various HDMI cables.

My point is, it's been done. Not by cable shysters like Audioquest, but by companies that make professional grade video equipment that goes in TV studios, cable TV facilities, satellite TV facilities, etc..

And what we found was exactly what Glimmie is telling you.

So find a cheap HDMI cable that works and don't waste any time doing improper tests.

For every new thing I learn, I forget two things I used to know.
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post #14 of 40 Old 10-16-2013, 12:09 PM
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http://www.stereophile.com/content/audioquest-headquarters-tour

Those who knock differences are those who do not try the higher priced cables. Buy a higher priced one and see if there is a difference, if not return it. The people who do this will have a better understanding of what is really going on. I tried Blue Rigger for about $4 and found it very acceptable. I purchased the Monprice cheap and found it a hunk of junk. I purchased the Monster 2000 ISF with RedMere and found it to be better. I recently purchased the hdmi version 2.0 Monster UltraHD Black cable with 60hz 4K ability at 27 GBps and saw my Blu Ray collection look better than ever. The UltrHD Black can also carry 8K signals up to 120Hz, That is called future proofing. I have also purchased Audioquest and find them to be excellent because silver does result in surface conductivity.

It is more than 1s and 0s, it is about the electrical impulse carrying the signal not just in the core of the wire, but also the surface. Seeing is believing and if any person sees the difference in their own setup, that is what really matters.

Samsung in displaying their 4K 65 " TV will only use Audioquest cables, in this case Cinnamon. I spoke with the Representative in Best Buy.
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post #15 of 40 Old 10-16-2013, 12:46 PM
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I spoke with the Representative in Best Buy.

No offense but that says it all really!!!
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post #16 of 40 Old 10-16-2013, 12:48 PM
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http://www.stereophile.com/content/audioquest-headquarters-tour

Those who knock differences are those who do not try the higher priced cables.

Sorry, not true. Our bias controlled cable tests included cables all the way up to $1500 for an interconnect pair. Buying expensive cables is folly. That is not opinion. That is test results.
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post #17 of 40 Old 10-16-2013, 03:43 PM
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http://www.stereophile.com/content/audioquest-headquarters-tour

Those who knock differences are those who do not try the higher priced cables. Buy a higher priced one and see if there is a difference, if not return it. The people who do this will have a better understanding of what is really going on. I tried Blue Rigger for about $4 and found it very acceptable. I purchased the Monprice cheap and found it a hunk of junk. I purchased the Monster 2000 ISF with RedMere and found it to be better. I recently purchased the hdmi version 2.0 Monster UltraHD Black cable with 60hz 4K ability at 27 GBps and saw my Blu Ray collection look better than ever. The UltrHD Black can also carry 8K signals up to 120Hz, That is called future proofing. I have also purchased Audioquest and find them to be excellent because silver does result in surface conductivity.

It is more than 1s and 0s, it is about the electrical impulse carrying the signal not just in the core of the wire, but also the surface. Seeing is believing and if any person sees the difference in their own setup, that is what really matters.

Samsung in displaying their 4K 65 " TV will only use Audioquest cables, in this case Cinnamon. I spoke with the Representative in Best Buy.

Entirely incorrect, and hilariously so.

"A better understanding of what is really going on?" Did you miss the part where I mentioned I worked at a large consumer A/V company, a company that had HDMI analyzers, high-speed digital scopes with built-in HDMI characterization software, and that we at work characterized several cables. What's more, we also had rooms with dozens of monitors for visual confirmation tests, although those were admittedly unnecessary when it comes to HDMI cables.

The changes you claim simply can't come from the cables, even if they were imparting differences to the signal.

Edit: As for Samsung only using Audioquest, ever heard of co-marketing between two companies? Wouldn't you like to see just how much Audioquest is paying Samsung to use their cables - and to tell people they're doing so?

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post #18 of 40 Old 10-16-2013, 06:02 PM
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http://www.stereophile.com/content/audioquest-headquarters-tour

Those who knock differences are those who do not try the higher priced cables. Buy a higher priced one and see if there is a difference, if not return it. The people who do this will have a better understanding of what is really going on.

This is the same tired old cop-out when somebody points out technical issues with these wild cable claims.

"Well, have you tried it? Well then how do you know expensive cables don't improve anything"

That may work for a layman but some of us here have many years of hands on electronics experience as well as university education in electrical engineering. The point is we don't have to "try it" to know it's all bunk. There are principles and theories that have been proven for the least 100 years which explain the behavior of electrons in wire. The bulk of these cable claims defy these principles and theories and in addition there is not a shred of formal accredited scientific proof of these wild claims.

Furthermore the professional AV, broadcast, motion picture facilities, as well and scientific research labs don't use these fancy cables. What does that tell you?

No, YOU and your fellow cable cheerleaders DON'T have an understanding of what is going on. If you did study electrical engineering you would soon see the glaring flaws in the advertised claims.

P.S. Bill Lowe, founder of Audioquest, has absolutely no formal education or equivalent background if any field of engineering! Neither do most of his competitors. Go ahead, look it up. Now explain to me how he can make these amazing audio/video cable discoveries when the top engineering universities in the world can't?

Those pictures of the Audioquest facility are also very telling. I see a standard manufacturing area for building cables, a warehouse, and some listening rooms with various grades of consumer AV gear. Where is the lab? Where are the test instruments? Surely these areas would be highlighted in a VIP tour to show the level of engineering and research going on at Audioquest - don't you think?
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post #19 of 40 Old 10-17-2013, 08:56 AM
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Kudos to the OP for wanting to jump into this quagmire of a topic. It seems to me that he had the noblest of intentions. However the topic is settled and even a Manhattan Project level of resources would be unable to resolve this Coke vs. Pepsi argument.

It was resolved years ago through bias controlled testing. It is truth vs. belief and truth wins, I'm afraid.
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post #20 of 40 Old 10-17-2013, 11:13 AM
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Kudos to the OP for wanting to jump into this quagmire of a topic. It seems to me that he had the noblest of intentions. However the topic is settled and even a Manhattan Project level of resources would be unable to resolve this Coke vs. Pepsi argument.

Yes, the OP did have noble intentions. Except this is the root problem of the whole cable debate. The OP does not have even a hint of the engineering and scientific practices to accomplish what he is asking. The entire boutique audiophile business is mostly built on snake oil rather than solid engineering principles.

Coke and Pepsi are comparable products. They cost the same and taste very close. This is not what the audio cable debate is.

We are talking about cables costing hundreds or thousands of percent higher than generic cables. The claimed differences are "huge". Yet none of this can be measured by modern scientific instruments?

And if the differences in performance are so "huge", then why is such careful objective measurement even needed? It would seem a "huge" difference should easily be casually heard.

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post #21 of 40 Old 10-18-2013, 07:41 PM
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...
Edit: As for Samsung only using Audioquest, ever heard of co-marketing between two companies? Wouldn't you like to see just how much Audioquest is paying Samsung to use their cables - and to tell people they're doing so?

Thanks for bringing this point up. Many never even know that this can happen in the business world.biggrin.gif There have been similar discussions with the cables used at the George Lucas studio too.

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... Yet none of this can be measured by modern scientific instruments?

And if the differences in performance are so "huge", then why is such careful objective measurement even needed? It would seem a "huge" difference should easily be casually heard.

I need to say that cable parameters, R, C, and I between brands are not identical hence it can be measured, right? Or they would all publish the same numbers which is not the case. So, it can be measured by someone.


Now the meat of your comment is the last sentence, the ability to measure with instruments and the ability of humans to hear differences.
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post #22 of 40 Old 10-18-2013, 07:53 PM
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While you are waiting for a suitable response, you may want to read the articles about audio and video cables here:
http://www.audioholics.com/audio-video-cables

Oh, you didn't mention the length of the HDMI cable you are interested in comparing as length does have an effect on some high bandwidth signals.
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post #23 of 40 Old 10-19-2013, 03:06 PM
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Thanks for bringing this point up. Many never even know that this can happen in the business world.biggrin.gif There have been similar discussions with the cables used at the George Lucas studio too.
I need to say that cable parameters, R, C, and I between brands are not identical hence it can be measured, right? Or they would all publish the same numbers which is not the case. So, it can be measured by someone.


Now the meat of your comment is the last sentence, the ability to measure with instruments and the ability of humans to hear differences.

When we characterized HDMI cables at one of my former workplaces, we looked specifically at the eye-diagram at the end of the cable and how it would affect bit-error rate. The eye-diagram can and does change a little from one cable to another, and the resultant BER would change a little as well. But with cable runs of under about 4-6 meters, the eye-diagram was clean even on cheap cables, and the BER was extremely low. With really long cables (say 10M), we could find cheap ones that closed in the eye-diagram considerably. The BER was still pretty good, but I'd imagine some errors were getting across.

But the main point is that those errors don't lead to the blacks getting lighter or colors losing saturation or the picture getting duller or the audio sounding worse or any of the things usually claimed by those who don't understand the interface.

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post #24 of 40 Old 12-31-2013, 04:33 PM
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There is no proof that Samsung or Sony are working with Audioquest to receive free cables or support. I have done research and can't find an agreement. what all this means, I don't know.
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post #25 of 40 Old 12-31-2013, 05:20 PM
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There is no proof that Samsung or Sony are working with Audioquest to receive free cables or support. I have done research and can't find an agreement. what all this means, I don't know.

Are all co-marketing agreements between companies are required to be made public?

Who said Samsung or Sony are working with Audioquest to receive free cables or support?

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post #26 of 40 Old 12-31-2013, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
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There is no proof that Samsung or Sony are working with Audioquest to receive free cables or support. I have done research and can't find an agreement. what all this means, I don't know.

Are all co-marketing agreements between companies are required to be made public?

Who said Samsung or Sony are working with Audioquest to receive free cables or support?

Actually, in the specified case it's likely the store's policy to only hook up the expensive TVs with the high-margin scam wires, and to try to sell the scam wires along with the "service plan"...

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post #27 of 40 Old 01-01-2014, 05:42 AM
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Originally Posted by HDPERSON View Post

http://www.stereophile.com/content/audioquest-headquarters-tour

Those who knock differences are those who do not try the higher priced cables.

There is probably such a tendency, but its not a global rule.
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Buy a higher priced one and see if there is a difference, if not return it.

Many of us who know better get snookered into this when we need a cable now, and all that is available in brick-and-mortar stores is the high priced spread.
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The people who do this will have a better understanding of what is really going on.

The counterpoint is:

How many perpetual motion machines do I need to purchase to convince myself that my Thermodynamics prof who taught me back in the early 70's was not lying?

I'm of the opinion that the number is zero. It's like this question:

How many lottery tickets do I need to purchase to convince myself that my Probability and Statistics prof who taught me back in the early 70's was not lying?

I'm of the opinion that this number is zero, as well.

So now we get down to where the rubber hits the road:

How many high end cables do I need to purchase to convince myself that my Fields and Waves prof, and my Electronics who taught me back in the early 70's were not lying?

Is someone faulting me for having the opinion that this number is zero, as well?

Do tell! ;-)
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post #28 of 40 Old 01-01-2014, 06:09 AM
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Originally Posted by beaveav View Post

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Originally Posted by CharlesJ View Post

Thanks for bringing this point up. Many never even know that this can happen in the business world.biggrin.gif There have been similar discussions with the cables used at the George Lucas studio too.
I need to say that cable parameters, R, C, and I between brands are not identical hence it can be measured, right? Or they would all publish the same numbers which is not the case. So, it can be measured by someone.


Now the meat of your comment is the last sentence, the ability to measure with instruments and the ability of humans to hear differences.

When we characterized HDMI cables at one of my former workplaces, we looked specifically at the eye-diagram at the end of the cable and how it would affect bit-error rate. The eye-diagram can and does change a little from one cable to another, and the resultant BER would change a little as well. But with cable runs of under about 4-6 meters, the eye-diagram was clean even on cheap cables, and the BER was extremely low. With really long cables (say 10M), we could find cheap ones that closed in the eye-diagram considerably. The BER was still pretty good, but I'd imagine some errors were getting across.

But the main point is that those errors don't lead to the blacks getting lighter or colors losing saturation or the picture getting duller or the audio sounding worse or any of the things usually claimed by those who don't understand the interface.

+1

But we don't have to be this technical. Not everybody knows a BER or broken eye pattern from a warm steaming hole in the ground.

We can also rely on the direct evidence of our eyes and brains.

One piece of evidence is what is the evidence of cable quality failure in a HDMI-based link between a source (BD player) and a high quality monitor (e.g. a 2048 x 1080 PC LCD)

One problem with testing this link is the fact that bad cables for this kind of a link are hard to find.
I think that one reason why naive audiophiles are easy to prey on is that their equipment works too well. They have no idea what failing equipment looks like, except perhaps in the totally degenerate case where the link is completely broken and there is no video at all. What does a marginal cable do to video?

I was able to assemble a marginal HDMI link using an inexpensive HDMI extender that was based on CAT 5E or CAT-6 cable. The thing has a nominal distance limit and one can make it selectively fail by overstepping its limited bounds. The testing context - as a link between a HDMI video card and a HDMI monitor has additional testing parameters - one can vary screen format to various levels from 640 x 480 up to 2048x1080. Each format imposes a different data rate on the link.

Examples:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HDMI-Extender-Over-Ethernet-Network-Lan-RJ45-Cat5e-Cat6-Signal-Repeater-180-Ft-/370975537469



http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=109&cp_id=10110&cs_id=1011012&p_id=6532&format=2



The first observable fact is that if you go way overboard on data rate, the link completely breaks and you have a black screen. However, if the CAT-5/6 cable link is extended to say twice the recommended length, The link starts out broken for very high data rates but you can back it down the list of available resolutions and at some point you get to witness a marginal link.

The classic marginal link yields a blotchy picture, usually with pixelated areas that move around the screen as the video changes naturally due to content.

My cheap cable provider gives me that for free from time to time!

And as was said above:
Quote:
But the main point is that those errors don't lead to the blacks getting lighter or colors losing saturation or the picture getting duller or the audio sounding worse or any of the things usually claimed by those who don't understand the interface.
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post #29 of 40 Old 01-01-2014, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

.....I think that one reason why naive audiophiles are easy to prey on is that their equipment works too well......

I have a different theory which especially applies to the $20K plus crowd.

With these guys it's all about how much you spent, not how it looks video wise, sounds, and of course not how it measures technically. They just can't comprehend the fact that a $5 six foot Monoprice HDMI cable is just as good performance wise as their $500 Audioquest or whatever.

This is why all the jitter FUD was born. Yes jitter is a legitimate problem but as you have noted many times, it's effects are largely inaudible in digital audio systems, especially with today's technology.

The new thing today seems to be USB cables. These cable charlatans are now frantically searching for ideas to support expensive USB cables and outboard USB power sources.

As long as some people firmly believe cost directly and solely relates to quality, there will be a good market for audiofool products.

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post #30 of 40 Old 01-01-2014, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post

I have a different theory which especially applies to the $20K plus crowd.

With these guys it's all about how much you spent, not how it looks video wise, sounds, and of course not how it measures technically. They just can't comprehend the fact that a $5 six foot Monoprice HDMI cable is just as good performance wise as their $500 Audioquest or whatever.

This is why all the jitter FUD was born. Yes jitter is a legitimate problem but as you have noted many times, it's effects are largely inaudible in digital audio systems, especially with today's technology.

The new thing today seems to be USB cables. These cable charlatans are now frantically searching for ideas to support expensive USB cables and outboard USB power sources.

As long as some people firmly believe cost directly and solely relates to quality, there will be a good market for audiofool products.

I've seen audiophiles drop $5000 or $10000 on some gadget "just in case." I've seen audiophiles do that with a credit card because they really can't afford it. The millionaires I know don't do that sort of thing and they can afford it. That's downright obsessive-compulsive. They need to see a shrink. The perpetrators are magazine reviewers and the manufacturers/dealers are the enablers.
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