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post #1 of 235 Old 10-11-2013, 01:57 PM - Thread Starter
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What makes a good objective reading on high end audio gear and/or HT? Not talking about periodicals or marketing and advertisement, but rather unbiased detailed explanation of the basics. My setup is hardly high end, but I think all gear obeys the same laws of physics.
Here is one that I found on Amazon.



Is it any good? Is there anything better? If so, how this other book is better?
Looking for a post 2010 release (in case there are new laws of physics discovered in the past 2-3 years)!
Appreciate your help.
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post #2 of 235 Old 10-11-2013, 02:08 PM - Thread Starter
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I downloaded from P2P a PDF copy of the book while Amazon ships the paperback, but it has two minor defects. No, it is not worn out. As soon as I downloaded it, I discovered it was in Russian. The second drawback that the illustrations very much resemble those from "the Cat in the Hat".
Judge for yourself.



The wrong language isn't a problem (I can read Russian just fine). But these drawings! Jeez.. I got what I paid for.
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post #3 of 235 Old 10-11-2013, 02:40 PM
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Pure pseudoscientific crap. If you read it, you will become stupid.

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

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post #4 of 235 Old 10-11-2013, 02:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnarus View Post

If you read it, you will become stupid.

In my case "more stupid" would have been appropriate.
On a more serious note, what is wrong with it? Where it does not deliver? What is an alternative?
Thanks.


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post #5 of 235 Old 10-11-2013, 02:54 PM
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But don't take my word for it. Download this:
http://www.theaudiocritic.com/back_issues/The_Audio_Critic_24_r.pdf
and turn to the review that begins on page 82. The review is written by this guy:
http://www.hofstra.edu/academics/Colleges/HCLAS/ENGNR/engnr_advboard_rich.html

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

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post #6 of 235 Old 10-11-2013, 03:06 PM
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post #7 of 235 Old 10-11-2013, 03:13 PM
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post #8 of 235 Old 10-11-2013, 03:32 PM
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^^ I was just coming back to add in as well. Good book.
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post #9 of 235 Old 10-11-2013, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnarus View Post

But don't take my word for it. Download this:
http://www.theaudiocritic.com/back_issues/The_Audio_Critic_24_r.pdf
and turn to the review that begins on page 82. The review is written by this guy:
http://www.hofstra.edu/academics/Colleges/HCLAS/ENGNR/engnr_advboard_rich.html

 

I don't like guys that have studied hard and have impeccable technical credentials... :p 

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post #10 of 235 Old 10-11-2013, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
I don't like guys that have studied hard and have impeccable technical credentials...
Nobody does.

But the b*st*rds are usually right.

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

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post #11 of 235 Old 10-11-2013, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnarus View Post

Quote:
I don't like guys that have studied hard and have impeccable technical credentials...
Nobody does.

But the b*st*rds are usually right.

Yes, usually reviewers from magazines existing to sell audio products and their successful salees are more believable. rolleyes.gif

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post #12 of 235 Old 10-11-2013, 06:54 PM
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post #13 of 235 Old 10-12-2013, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

Try Ethan's book.

Thanks for the plug. Judging from the tone of the OP's query my book probably is closest to what he's looking for. Though Floyd Toole's book is very good too for objective information.

--Ethan

RealTraps - The acoustic treatment experts

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post #14 of 235 Old 10-12-2013, 04:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan Winer View Post

Thanks for the plug. Judging from the tone of the OP's query my book probably is closest to what he's looking for. Though Floyd Toole's book is very good too for objective information.

--Ethan

Thanks, everybody. All 3 books are on my reading list now.


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post #15 of 235 Old 10-14-2013, 10:32 AM
 
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Damn, whatever happened to David Rich? His articles were great...he wasn't afraid to open up hardware and tear into the guts.

(later), ah I see he's still at it... hurrah!

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/technical-articles-and-editorials/technical-articles-and-editorials/options-by-supplier-and-price.html
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post #16 of 235 Old 10-14-2013, 11:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by krabapple View Post

Damn, whatever happened to David Rich? His articles were great...he wasn't afraid to open up hardware and tear into the guts.

(later), ah I see he's still at it... hurrah!

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/technical-articles-and-editorials/technical-articles-and-editorials/options-by-supplier-and-price.html

Thanks a lot! I started the first book, but I dont think any of them go in-depth on AVR architecture. This is great!


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post #17 of 235 Old 10-14-2013, 05:43 PM - Thread Starter
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I am on "Biwired Speaker Connections" part of Complete Guide to High End Audio. I find it rather confusing.
Quote:
In a bi-wired system, the power amplifier “sees” a higher impedance on the tweeter cable at low frequencies, and a lower impedance at high frequencies. The opposite is true in the woofer-half of the bi-wired pair. This causes the signal to be split up, with high frequencies traveling mostly in the pair driving the loudspeaker’s tweeter circuit and low frequencies conducted by the pair connected to the loudspeaker’s woofer circuit. This frequency splitting reportedly reduces magnetic interactions in the cable, resulting in better sound. The large magnetic fields set up around the conductors by low-frequency energy can’t affect the transfer of treble energy. No one knows exactly how or why bi-wiring works, but on nearly all loudspeakers with bi-wiring provision, it makes a big improvement in the sound.



How are the signals split? This is biwiring. Two banana plugs (+ & -) at the amp end, four at speaker posts. It is basically THE SAME WIRE with different number of connections. Also, I tried bi-amping (which is supposed to be more effective than biwiring) and did not hear any difference at all. Granted, I did not use two separate amps for highs and lows - just my AVR allows rear surrounds to be converted for biamping, but still...
So, two questions:
1) Is biwiring really effective and I mean an audible difference however indiscernible?
2) If it is - how does single wire with different plugs at the end does this?
Thanks.


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post #18 of 235 Old 10-14-2013, 05:55 PM
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Bi-wiring is great if you're selling speaker wire, waste of wire otherwise.

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post #19 of 235 Old 10-14-2013, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

Bi-wiring is great if you're selling speaker wire...
Which is how it got the nick-name "buy-wire".

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post #20 of 235 Old 10-14-2013, 06:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Which is how it got the nick-name "buy-wire".

Yeah, I understand, but I am trying to understand this logic behind "isolated bass and treble sections" in the pic above. How are they isolated? The amp output is just one post. Does the wire do isolation by itself? There has to be some logic behind this statement, however flawed. Is there?


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post #21 of 235 Old 10-14-2013, 06:23 PM
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It's called bullsh*t.

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post #22 of 235 Old 10-14-2013, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grigorianvlad View Post

I am trying to understand this logic behind "isolated bass and treble sections" in the pic above. How are they isolated? The amp output is just one post. Does the wire do isolation by itself?
Technically it isn't the wire that does the isolation but the signal itself that makes the decision: i.e., even though all the frequencies start out at the same binding posts, when they reach a fork in the speaker cable, the higher frequencies choose one pair of wires while the lower frequencies (knowing that one pair of wires is already taken) travel along the other pair of wires.

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post #23 of 235 Old 10-14-2013, 06:26 PM
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Yeah, I understand, but I am trying to understand this logic behind "isolated bass and treble sections" in the pic above. How are they isolated? The amp output is just one post. Does the wire do isolation by itself? There has to be some logic behind this statement, however flawed. Is there?
No, there is no logic to it whatsoever. The only point is to try to get you to spend more $$$ on wires. As I told you already (see post #3), Harley is a fraud who does not know what he is talking about. Read the book review I linked to in post #5 for more evidence of this.

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

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post #24 of 235 Old 10-14-2013, 06:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Technically it isn't the wire that does the isolation but the signal itself that makes the decision: i.e., even though all the frequencies start out at the same binding posts, when they reach a fork in the speaker cable, the higher frequencies choose one pair of wires while the lower frequencies (knowing that one pair of wires is already taken) travel along the other pair of wires.

I think this is exactly what the book says, but how? How does this decision making process works? I don't think the wire is remotely capable of "knowing"! There is some sort of a law of physics or math formula there. I would be able to understand it if there was one, but I just I want to know if it does exist.

Let's say the author implies "if you have a source clear enough, amp good enough and speakers sophisticated and dynamic enough then biwiring ..." and so on. I understand it wouldn't make a difference for me with my equipment, but I want to understand the best case scenario.


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post #25 of 235 Old 10-14-2013, 06:36 PM
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Dude, it's a sales pitch. There is no science. It's just for gullible consumers.

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post #26 of 235 Old 10-14-2013, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Let's say the author implies "if you have a source clear enough, amp good enough and speakers sophisticated and dynamic enough then biwiring ..." and so on. I understand it wouldn't make a difference for me with my equipment, but I want to understand the best case scenario.
There is no best-case scenario. That's bulls**t, too. If a change in wiring has an audible effect (which can happen, in extreme circumstances), it wouldn't take particularly great equipment to hear it. As long as your speakers cover the frequency range where the audible effect occurs, you'll hear it.

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

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post #27 of 235 Old 10-14-2013, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grigorianvlad View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Technically it isn't the wire that does the isolation but the signal itself that makes the decision: i.e., even though all the frequencies start out at the same binding posts, when they reach a fork in the speaker cable, the higher frequencies choose one pair of wires while the lower frequencies (knowing that one pair of wires is already taken) travel along the other pair of wires.
I think this is exactly what the book says, but how? How does this decision making process works? I don't think the wire is remotely capable of "knowing"!
Of course the wire isn't capable of "knowing". It's just a piece of metal, providing a pathway. Like I said, it is the signal that knows which pair of wires to travel down.

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post #28 of 235 Old 10-14-2013, 06:41 PM
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More required reading when it comes to wire if you haven't already seen this http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm#connect

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post #29 of 235 Old 10-14-2013, 06:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnarus View Post

There is no best-case scenario. That's bulls**t, too. If a change in wiring has an audible effect (which can happen, in extreme circumstances), it wouldn't take particularly great equipment to hear it. As long as your speakers cover the frequency range where the audible effect occurs, you'll hear it.

All right, it is nonsense then. Moving on. Thanks for the help, guys.


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post #30 of 235 Old 10-14-2013, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grigorianvlad View Post

I think this is exactly what the book says, but how? How does this decision making process works? I don't think the wire is remotely capable of "knowing"! There is some sort of a law of physics or math formula there. I would be able to understand it if there was one, but I just I want to know if it does exist.

It's the current draw that flows separately in each cable. Bi-wiring should be two sets of complete individual cables all the way between the amp and speaker.

Whether or not it makes a difference is debatable.
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