$18,000 Simaudio AV processor actually a repackaged Denon AVR? - Page 8 - AVS Forum
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post #211 of 222 Old 11-21-2013, 12:48 AM
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I hear Sinaudio is in negotiations with Denon and Gatorade.


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post #212 of 222 Old 11-21-2013, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by amirm View Post

Oh I thought you were saying $8K price was not real. Didn't realize the extra zero in there in my post 'till now. In the context of silly back and forth between Chu and I, was it really worth picking on this number and then escalating this way? frown.gif

I believe you mean "between Chu and me." smile.gif

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post #213 of 222 Old 11-21-2013, 06:07 PM
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I'd be screwed if my grammar had to pass muster. Amir and I agree on some things and disagree on others. It makes life interesting and I certainly wouldn't judge him based on what transpires here. BTW, the eBay listing has dropped to $7,500 with an offer for $200. Maybe the Pawn Stars are bidding.

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post #214 of 222 Old 11-22-2013, 03:19 PM
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That grammar mistake is a pet peeve of mine.
Also, I felt that being excessively picky about what someone posted was in line with the previous few posts.
So my correction was half-serious and half-tongue-in-cheek. smile.gif

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post #215 of 222 Old 11-23-2013, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by amirm View Post

***
Last night we provided our facility for the local audiophile society. Really great group of people personally which you all would love to hate for their purchase decisions. Anyway, we are showing the new JBL M2 speakers.***What was the reaction from a number of audiophiles last night? "Never seen a horn speaker I liked...Never liked a speaker with DSP in it...None of the instruments sound real..." Fortunately there are some that were blown away by them are buying it but you have zero chance of attracting the typical Wilson or Magico buyer with this speaker and talk of science as is common on our web site.

Bad salesmanship is to blame there.

You should've used drapes, and given no information except the total cost of the system prior to the demo. smile.gif
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But the few of you think it is easy picking here. Please explain how you would make money from these "gullible" people. I sure as heck don't know how to do that and seeing a number of high-end audio shops around us close, I don't seem to alone. You guys are mad about all the fortunes being made. Teach us the secrets. smile.gif

Probably not too hard. Find something cheap, like a piece of wire. Send a few to major contributors on a website where voodoo is freely spread by high priests with their hands out and there are strong norms against even invoking science enforced by the moderators (head-fi, et al). Let the testimonials fly, and ride it until you get bored.
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BTW our currently "high-end" solution for a processor (sans amplification) is a Marantz.

I thought you carried Paradigm/Anthem.

I think they do the "high end" AVR market exactly right: take a cheap commodity Chinese platform, but add value in the form of ARC. And then there are their high-end pre-pros, which will probably still be basically the same units in 2020 as they are now.

I think if a company can't add value, what's the point of entering the product space?

Marantz is another one of those with a high-end price and look but substandard internals. See Dr. Rich's recent piece on AVR/pre-pro internals. Audibly, probably no issue. But for the price performance should be better.
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IMO, it's both. The desperation is obvious - no engineer real or self-proclaimed, wants to be in the business of merely reskinning or rebranding other people's products. *** My first automatic car was a BMW 5 series in 1990s. The transmission was made by GM! Yes, GM. BMW then bought Land Rover and they proceeded to put the BMW engine in Range Rover. You think anyone cared about the feelings of any engineers involved in those decisions?

Amir, I'd expect deeper knowledge than this from you.

BMW rarely if ever made their own transmissions, instead buying them from the likes of ZF, Getrag, etc. And most slushboxes from European brands were from GM or Chrysler (oddly, rarely from Ford), simply because Europeans unlike Americans are capable of handling a proper three-pedal car. (I have a cousin in Austria who has a proper manual in his BMW 7er, for instance.) So the slushbox model is really just an afterthought for lazy and uncoordinated Yanks.

Second, prior to using BMW engines Land Rover was dependent on a design they bought from GM (the "BOP V8") in the 1960s and proceeded to band-aid it for a generation. So what's the difference?
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Originally Posted by pokekevin View Post

It makes sense that Lexus bases their ES line off their Camry but I don't see them marking the ES that high as Sim Audio does with this AV pro.

FWIW, Aston Martin did try to sell a Toyota city car (I think it's sold in the US as "Scion iQ" or something like that, but I can't recall ever having actually seen one on the road) with better upholstery and an Aston grill for $50k give or take...
20091228_aston-martin-cygnet_614mz
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Originally Posted by amirm View Post

Another example: Lexicon put out this wonderful multi-channel amp called DD-8 a couple of years ago. It gives you 8 channels of amplification in a 1 RU chassis. The reason they could make it so small is due to work they did with TI to develop the core of their class I amplification in a single chip. That development was not funded by the small volumes of such amps. But rather, it was designed for the 2+ billion dollar Harman does in automotive business. There, having least amount of weight and power consumption is very important. Since volume of cars runs in tens of millions if not hundreds, TI not only worked with Harman on this but actually co-designed new silicon for it. Anyway, a number of companies are now private branding the unit and rave about how advanced its design is without a single mention of Harman. What really cracks me/my team up is that they come and present the unit to us as if they invented it only to hear us say, "hmmm... isn't this the you know what amp?" They grin and say yes.

The reason this particular one has flared up isn't rebranding, it's price. If someone offers a Crown CT8150/Lexicon DD-8 variant for a similar ~$2k MSRP, whatever. If someone offered a LexiCrown clone for $40k and made stupid claims about it, the forums would probably light up.
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Do you live in US Chu? If so, you are the beneficiary of such wrong-doing anytime you watch a Netflix disc or go to the library. First Sale Doctrine says that once you buy something, you can do with it as you wish. Netflix (and Redbox) buy discs and then proceed to rent them against the wishes of the content owners. They make money from one disc whereas Netflix makes over and over. LIkewise the library lends out books that would theoretically reduce the sales of the book.

Rather than discussing legal issues in an unrelated forum, here's an interesting and relevant recent Note.

http://www.stanfordlawreview.org/online/kirtsaeng-and-first-sale-doctrines-digital-problem
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post #216 of 222 Old 11-25-2013, 08:42 AM
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I have a CP-8 and although I am beyond thrilled with the performance as far as audio is concerned, I am stuck hard when it comes to video processing. I have a 4K UHD TV with an HDMI 2.0 input. The CP-8 has first generation HDMI 1.3a which can't handle 3D or 4K upscaling. Can anyone recommend a solution for me to process my video? Or would I be better off selling my CP-8 and getting another pre/pro that has all the bells and whistles the CP-8 is lacking. I love my CP-8 and don't want to get rid of it though. Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
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post #217 of 222 Old 11-25-2013, 08:57 AM
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You could always get a denon. smile.gif

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post #218 of 222 Old 11-25-2013, 09:02 AM
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Yes, I'd suggest a Marantz 8801. smile.gif If you like the CP-8 so much, since its derived from an antiqued Denon, you'll love the newer Marantz with all the bells & whistles.

Might have better luck selling it on Ebay or on consignment at your local high-end dealer.
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post #219 of 222 Old 11-25-2013, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fleishher View Post

I am have a CP-8 and although I am beyond thrilled with the performance as far as audio is concerned, I am stuck hard when it comes to video processing. I have a 4K UHD TV with an HDMI 2.0 input. The CP-8 has first generation HDMI 1.3a which can't handle 3D or 4K upscaling. Can anyone recommend a solution for me to process my video? Or would I be better off selling my CP-8 and getting another pre/pro that has all the bells and whistles the CP-8 is lacking. I love my CP-8 and don't want to get rid of it though. Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
Here's a suggestion.

For 4k upscaling, I'd suggest you look at a HTPC using madVR.
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post #220 of 222 Old 11-25-2013, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fleishher View Post

I have a CP-8 and although I am beyond thrilled with the performance as far as audio is concerned, I am stuck hard when it comes to video processing. I have a 4K UHD TV with an HDMI 2.0 input. The CP-8 has first generation HDMI 1.3a which can't handle 3D or 4K upscaling. Can anyone recommend a solution for me to process my video? Or would I be better off selling my CP-8 and getting another pre/pro that has all the bells and whistles the CP-8 is lacking. I love my CP-8 and don't want to get rid of it though. Thanks in advance for any suggestions.


Keep the CP-8 and separate the audio and video duties. Let the blu-ray player handle the latest video technology du jour. Get one with 2 HDMI outputs, then feed video HDMI straight to the TV and audio HDMI to the CP-8.
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post #221 of 222 Old 11-25-2013, 05:46 PM
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Thanks for the recommendations!

A9X-308, I will check out HTPC/madVR.

Talos4, great suggestion. Let's say I use an Oppo. This would work great for Netflix and Vudu and Hulu and blu ray of course, but what about when I want to strea content from my cable box or an alternative source? What should I depend on to decode the audio? Should I get a switcher with the latest HDMI and just input everything into the blu-ray player?
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post #222 of 222 Old 11-25-2013, 07:53 PM
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The Oppo BDP-103 has two HDMI inputs…would that be sufficient for your needs? If not and you wanted the Oppo to upscale everything, then maybe an HDMI switcher is your answer. Am thinking the Oppo would simply bitstream the HDMI audio portion from input to output, but someone with direct experience should weigh in. Use the CP-8 to decode the audio wherever you can, but if you have to run analog cables over that’s fine too.
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