The Emotiva UPA-700 Seven-Channel Power Amplifier - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 22 Old 11-27-2013, 12:20 PM - Thread Starter
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I currently have Onkyo TX-NR809 for multi-purpose in my theater room now. It's uses for both movie and music, but mostly music. It's configured for 5.2 system (two floor standings, center, two wides, surrounds and two 12" subs). For music, it is in stereo with 2.2 speakers (two floor standing and two subs).

 

It sounds great for both movie and music as is, but enough is never enough for HT hobbier. At least it is cheaper than my previous car hobby. Do you think that it will highly boost my system by connecting Emotiva UPA-700 to NR809 and then from UPA-700 to all speakers?

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post #2 of 22 Old 11-27-2013, 12:52 PM
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I currently have Onkyo TX-NR809 for multi-purpose in my theater room now. It's uses for both movie and music, but mostly music. It's configured for 5.2 system (two floor standings, center, two wides, surrounds and two 12" subs). For music, it is in stereo with 2.2 speakers (two floor standing and two subs).

It sounds great for both movie and music as is, but enough is never enough for HT hobbier. At least it is cheaper than my previous car hobby. Do you think that it will highly boost my system by connecting Emotiva UPA-700 to NR809 and then from UPA-700 to all speakers?

Not so much.

The UPA 700 is an 80 wpc 8 ohm, 100 wpc 4 ohm amp amp.

The Nr809 is a little hard to compare but at 8 ohms it probably puts out somewhat more than that at at least 120 wpc.

The UPA 700 will probably hold its power ratings better on the test bench with pure sine waves, all 7 channels driven to full output, and resistive loads.

You are going to only be using 2 channels of the Onkyo and it holds a lot of its lead under those conditions.

If you want to spend money at Emotiva, check out the XPR 2

If you want to get great sound and more bang for the buck check out one of these:

http://www.amazon.com/Crown-XTi4002-1200w-Channel-Amplifier/dp/B004ZGB2RK
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post #3 of 22 Old 11-27-2013, 01:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by arnyk View Post


Not so much.

The UPA 700 is an 80 wpc 8 ohm, 100 wpc 4 ohm amp amp.

The Nr809 is a little hard to compare but at 8 ohms it probably puts out somewhat more than that at at least 120 wpc.

The UPA 700 will probably hold its power ratings better on the test bench with pure sine waves, all 7 channels driven to full output, and resistive loads.

You are going to only be using 2 channels of the Onkyo and it holds a lot of its lead under those conditions.

If you want to spend money at Emotiva, check out the XPR 2

If you want to get great sound and more bang for the buck check out one of these:

http://www.amazon.com/Crown-XTi4002-1200w-Channel-Amplifier/dp/B004ZGB2RK

That is what I thought, and thanks! The Crown in your link looks good, but it a little too expensive for me though. What do you think about this for two channel stereo Emotiva UPA-200 2-Channel Amplifier?

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post #4 of 22 Old 11-27-2013, 01:07 PM
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I agree with arny. You need double the power to just start benifiting from an external amp. Something like the xpa-2 is minimum I would look at for an upgrade in power. The xpr series would be even better.

FWIW, I have an xpa-2 and an xpa-5. Sonically between either amp and my 809 I can't really tell a difference, other then being able to go louder on the volume dial before it starts sounding like crap.

I don't need snobs to tell me how to think, thank you!

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post #5 of 22 Old 11-27-2013, 01:13 PM - Thread Starter
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I agree with arny. You need double the power to just start benifiting from an external amp. Something like the xpa-2 is minimum I would look at for an upgrade in power. The xpr series would be even better.

FWIW, I have an xpa-2 and an xpa-5. Sonically between either amp and my 809 I can't really tell a difference, other then being able to go louder on the volume dial before it starts sounding like crap.

That is very interesting observation, and thanks.

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post #6 of 22 Old 11-27-2013, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by blurayalltheway View Post

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Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

That is what I thought, and thanks! The Crown in your link looks good, but it a little too expensive for me though. What do you think about this for two channel stereo Emotiva UPA-200 2-Channel Amplifier?

I like this better:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Crown-XTi-2000-XTI2000-2-Channel-Stereo-Rack-Mount-Power-Amplifier-B-Stock-/370890485046?pt=US_Pro_Audio_Amplifiers&hash=item565acbad36

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Crown-XTI2002-Power-Amplifier-Series-2-XTI-2002-Amp-W-Box-/130978417027?pt=US_Pro_Audio_Microphones&hash=item1e7eec0983
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post #7 of 22 Old 11-27-2013, 01:40 PM - Thread Starter
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CROWN XTi 2002 spec looks good, and it might blend in with my all black components better......

 

It's probably need a couple of these "Monoprice 104784 3-Feet Premier Series XLR Female to RCA Male 16AWG Cable" to connect to NR809 front left/right pre-out, right?

 

Do you think that it will be a big improvement over my existing NR809 5.2 system?

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post #8 of 22 Old 11-27-2013, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blurayalltheway View Post

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Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

CROWN XTi 2002 spec looks good, and it might blend in with my all black components better......

It's probably need a couple of these "Monoprice 104784 3-Feet Premier Series XLR Female to RCA Male 16AWG Cable" to connect to NR809 front left/right pre-out, right?

Do you think that it will be a big improvement over my existing NR809 5.2 system?

Depends how much you crank your system, which is a wee bit hard to figure from possibly thousands of miles away.

At least it is significantly more powerful than the AVR, unlike many of the Exxxxxx products that were discussed. And it doesn't cost like the Exxxxxx products that were significantly more powerful than the AVR.

I should point out that while the Crown has both sex XLRs on its back panel for daisy chaining, the usual convention is that the gozinta from a signal source is a male connector. Show me a female XLR and I want to plug it into a signal source, not an input.
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post #9 of 22 Old 11-27-2013, 08:08 PM
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Arny, I thought the XTi's would accept XLR or standard 1/4" TS plugs? I am not sure, have not looked at the ones installed at my church for a few years...

And of course Arny is right that you should plug a male into the inputs of the amp.

What speakers is the OP using, will they benefit from the added power?

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #10 of 22 Old 11-27-2013, 08:43 PM
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Arny, I thought the XTi's would accept XLR or standard 1/4" TS plugs? I am not sure, have not looked at the ones installed at my church for a few years...

When in doubt - visit the manufacturer's web site:

"Input connectors: XLR, one per channel

Link/out connector: Loop-thru signal from input
connector for linking another amplifier, one
per channel"

The input connectors are XLR female

The link/out connectors are XLR male

The daisy-chain feature makes lot of common need-to-do things easy in the pro context.

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And of course Arny is right that you should plug a male into the inputs of the amp.

What speakers is the OP using, will they benefit from the added power?

Some place along the way I saw mention of Polk RTi12 or equivalent which are rated for up to 500 watts at 8 ohms.

http://www.polkaudio.com/products/rti12

Or was that the other thread? Well, caveat emptor!

the Xti 2002 is rated at something like 450 wpc so it would appear to be a love match on paper.

http://www.crownaudio.com/media/storagebk/amp_htm/xti2files/XTi2%20datasheet.pdf

Also the Xti amps have LED power level/clipping indicators so the owner can reach his own conclusions about overkill. ;-)
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post #11 of 22 Old 11-27-2013, 08:46 PM
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Thanks Arny. Now I am wondering which amps had the dual input jacks, have to look Sunday...

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #12 of 22 Old 11-28-2013, 08:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

Depends how much you crank your system, which is a wee bit hard to figure from possibly thousands of miles away.

At least it is significantly more powerful than the AVR, unlike many of the Exxxxxx products that were discussed. And it doesn't cost like the Exxxxxx products that were significantly more powerful than the AVR.
 

Sorry for not making my message clearer. When I said "big improvement", I meant the overall sounds (clarity, tighter bass, etc) on floor standings for stereo. Since it will take the load off AVR from the other speakers during movie viewing, it might enhance the overall surround sound in DTS-HD, TrueHD, etc sounds too. 

 

I don't expect you to know how it will sound on my system thousand of miles away but I'm hoping that you might already done this on your system. You might be able to relate your experience to how much improvement on your system. Since I never install an external amp on HT system, I don't have a clue. Thank you for trying to help.

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I should point out that while the Crown has both sex XLRs on its back panel for daisy chaining, the usual convention is that the gozinta from a signal source is a male connector. Show me a female XLR and I want to plug it into a signal source, not an input.

I should have check out the information in their website instead of go by the blurry photo from Google. I thought that two outside XLR connections are for input. It's the two in the center instead. A couple of these cables "Monoprice 104777 6-Feet Premier Series XLR Male to RCA Male 16AWG Cable" should work then. If I have time, I might be able to make it myself too. I made all my speaker cables as shown below so far. I might still have some Canare 4S11 cable laying around in the garage....

 

 

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post #13 of 22 Old 11-28-2013, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blurayalltheway View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

Depends how much you crank your system, which is a wee bit hard to figure from possibly thousands of miles away.


At least it is significantly more powerful than the AVR, unlike many of the Exxxxxx products that were discussed. And it doesn't cost like the Exxxxxx products that were significantly more powerful than the AVR.

 
Sorry for not making my message clearer. When I said "big improvement", I meant the overall sounds (clarity, tighter bass, etc) on floor standings for stereo. Since it will take the load off AVR from the other speakers during movie viewing, it might enhance the overall surround sound in DTS-HD, TrueHD, etc sounds too. 

I don't expect you to know how it will sound on my system thousand of miles away but I'm hoping that you might already done this on your system. You might be able to relate your experience to how much improvement on your system. Since I never install an external amp on HT system, I don't have a clue. Thank you for trying to help.
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

I should point out that while the Crown has both sex XLRs on its back panel for daisy chaining, the usual convention is that the gozinta from a signal source is a male connector. Show me a female XLR and I want to plug it into a signal source, not an input.
I should have check out the information in their website instead of go by the blurry photo from Google. I thought that two outside XLR connections are for input. It's the two in the center instead. A couple of these cables "Monoprice 104777 6-Feet Premier Series XLR Male to RCA Male 16AWG Cable" should work then. If I have time, I might be able to make it myself too. I made all my speaker cables as shown below so far. I might still have some Canare 4S11 cable laying around in the garage....




unless you are currently straining your system to the point of ear bleeding distortion, adding more power wont change how things sound. your speakers, room and to a lesser extent your processor/room correction package will have noticeable effects on the overall sound.

the inclusion of an amp will let you get louder cleaner then your average avr - but most wont need this additional power for normal listening habits.

subjectively you might notice things you never paid attention to before once you add an amp, but under objective testing conditions you would be hard pressed to tell which is your avr and which is your amp.

I don't need snobs to tell me how to think, thank you!

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post #14 of 22 Old 11-28-2013, 08:35 AM - Thread Starter
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What speakers is the OP using, will they benefit from the added power?

It's klipsch Synergy F series with dual 8-inch woofers and 6.5-inch square Tractrix Horn floor standings and two 12" Polk Audio PSW505 subwoofers. I'm very satisfy with the sounds now. As I mentioned in OP, HT hobbier always want to try something new....

 

 

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post #15 of 22 Old 11-28-2013, 08:56 AM
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Those speakers (Klipsch F-30) are rated at 97.5 dB/W/m. They are rated to 150 W average (Klipsch says "RMS") and 600 W peak, nominal 8 ohms. The NR809 is rated at 135 W/ch (8 ohms, 160 W/ch 6 ohms). That is about 110db at 12 feet away without considering room gain. That is really loud.

Have you considered room treatment? That would probably do much more to improve the sound than a new amp.

If you have money you are dying to part with you could add it to the kid's college fund. Or my kids', even better. smile.gif

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #16 of 22 Old 11-28-2013, 10:05 AM - Thread Starter
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That is about 110db at 12 feet away without considering room gain. That is really loud.

Have you considered room treatment? That would probably do much more to improve the sound than a new amp.
 

Everything I have now is very loud and clear, but just want to try something new. Room treatment is out of consideration, because I cannot mess up my wife decoration. She didn't like my two monster 12" HSU subwoofers either. I end up replaced it with two smaller PSW505 to make my wife happy. The amp is a lot easier to hide in the cabinet. Again, just want to try something new...

 

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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

If you have money you are dying to part with you could add it to the kid's college fund. Or my kids', even better. smile.gif

 

Everything have been considered, and I am a family minded person...

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post #17 of 22 Old 11-28-2013, 10:13 AM
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If you just want to spend money for the heck of it, why come here and ask for confirmation. You can make your own decision about how to use your money. People are telling you that it is a waste. No point in arguing with them. Just go do what you want to do.
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Ditto.

The UPA-700 won't provide any power increase over what you already have. If it mostly music and, despite saying it sounds great, you feel you must improve something, then pick up one of the two-channel amps Arny suggested to drive the mains (L/R speakers). You'll come back posting what a great improvement it made to your listening experience.

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post #19 of 22 Old 11-28-2013, 02:18 PM - Thread Starter
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If you just want to spend money for the heck of it, why come here and ask for confirmation. You can make your own decision about how to use your money. People are telling you that it is a waste. No point in arguing with them. Just go do what you want to do.

Sorry, I don't think that it is a waste of money to install external amp. Many users in here having it in their system and enjoying it. I haven't try to argue with anyone in here. I'm getting valuable information from people (Arny, Don, Jason and others) with external amp experiences. They gives me better choices and suggestions than what I listed in my first post. Yes, you are right about making my own decision. At the end of this discussion, I will make my own decision...

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post #20 of 22 Old 11-28-2013, 02:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Ditto.

The UPA-700 won't provide any power increase over what you already have.

That is what Arny stated earlier in this thread, and he suggested CROWN XTi 2002 over it. I'm his suggestion it. Even it doesn't improve any AQ over my existing system, I'm still getting valuable experience for myself and I can rest my doubt about external amp. Thank you, Arny and others for sharing your experiences with me, and you guys are awesome!

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post #21 of 22 Old 11-28-2013, 02:27 PM
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Sorry, I think that it is a waste of money to install external amp. Many users in here having it in their system and enjoying it. I haven't try to argue with anyone in here. They gives me better choices and suggestions than what I listed in my first post. Of course the final decision is mine, but I'm getting valuable information from people (Arny, Don, Jason and others) with external amp experiences.....
No surprise there. Best of luck to you.
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post #22 of 22 Old 12-02-2013, 06:25 PM
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If you really want to "know" more about how "good" it ll is a common suggestion is to FIND OUT
Get REW and one of the suggested mikes and have some fun with this hobby.
You might find a good used Berry 1124p and midi for around $100.
Total; $200 or so and applicable to current and future usage
No doubt more power can be a help but even a rat shack Spl meter can be an (ear opening) start insofar as even just for MLP.
just a different suggestion

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