Klipsch Speakers and Audyssey Setup Discussion - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 40 Old 01-29-2014, 08:37 PM - Thread Starter
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I didn't want to bog down the Klipsch and Audyssey threads but wanted to see what other users settings and experiences are. I of course assume those posting have done Audyssey setup correctly. The reason I'm starting this thread is two-fold: 1) Although "all rooms are different," I am curious on how similar and/or different our comparative numbers and experiences are. 2) We all have different expectations and putting our thoughts in writing may help others who are setting up their Klipsch Home theaters using Audyssey.

These are my settings using the Denon AVR-4311ci in a 9.2 configuration with Heights and Rear speakers:

L RF-7 -8 @ 9.6 ft
R RF-7 -8.5 @ 9.5 ft
C RC-7 -8 @ 8.9 ft
LH RB-5 -5.5 @ 13 ft
RH RB-5 -4.5 @12.8 ft
SS RF-3 -9 @ 5.4 ft
SS RF-3 -11 @ 4.4 ft
RL RB-75 -5 @ 8.6 ft
RR RB-75 -5 @ 8.1 ft
Front RSW-12 -9 @7.9 ft
Rear RSW-15 -6.5 @ 10.6 ft

After running the sweeps I went in and raised the crossovers from 40 Hz on the RF-7s, RF-3s and RB-75s to 60 Hz and left the RC-7 at 80 Hz and the RB-5 Heights at 120 Hz where they were set. I also turned Dynamic Volume off and the Dymanic EQ on. Audyssey XT 32 seems to work best in my room and I found that I liked Dolby PLIIx better than Audysey DSX. The latter seemed to sound more echoey whereas PLIIx seems to raise the sound field. We watch movies within -5 to "0" and usually closer to Reference level (last movie was GI Joe @ -2). I also leave DEQ on for multichannel music and concerts and listen closer to -10 and DVD-A.SACD anywhere from -5 to -12 on the MV.

I also think discussing source material to give reference could be beneficial as well: I watched GI Joe at -2 on the dial and the low end hit 106 dB (possibly over a few dB). I then put in Robert Plant and the Band of Joy where it stayed between 85 and 90 dB (w/ a peak or two up to 95 dB) on my SPL meter (C-weighted) and -3 on the MV of the Denon AVR-4311ci.

Anyone else?
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post #2 of 40 Old 01-30-2014, 06:51 AM
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DENON AVR-3312CI

CHANNEL LEVEL ( MAIN ZONE )



FL (1980 La Scala) Realy thought those -12.0dB settings would be a problem, but they are not.

-12.0 dB, 12.9 feet


FR (1980 La Scala)

-12.0 dB, 12.1 feet


C (Heresy II)

-10.0 dB, 10.4 feet


SW (RW-12d, km-rsw)

0.0 dB, 16.5 feet


FHL (kg3)

-5.0 dB, 15.4 feet


FHR (kg3)

-3.5 dB, 15.0 feet


FWL (Heresy II)

-8.5 dB, 11.0 feet


FWR (Heresy II)

-9.0 dB, 9.1 feet


SL (Heresy II)

-9.5 dB, 6.9 feet


SR (Heresy II)

-9.5 dB, 5.4 feet


SBL (kg1)

-6.5 dB, 5.6 feet


SBR (kg1)

-7.0 dB, 4.5 feet

Dynamic EQ ON

Dynamic Volume Evening (Turn On & Off, Depending on Source, et Cetera)
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post #3 of 40 Old 01-31-2014, 09:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for posting your numbers. I have a few things going on this weekend but plan on listening to some material and may make a few changes and will see how that affects my settings...

Long story short: Right now my DEAD Mitz 65" PB is the 'shelving'' for all of my electronics and RC-7. In front of it we have a 42" Panny that will eventually go to the bedroom when we get a larger monitor (shortly). Of course when we do, I am going to have to reconfigure where everything goes, plus may have a better option for my front subwoofers including possibly getting a third....Anyway, I'll keep you posted.
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post #4 of 40 Old 01-31-2014, 10:30 AM
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All Speakers set to Large, LFE+Main, LPF for LFE. 120Hz, Crossovers:

Front & Height 40Hz

Center, Surround, Surround Back & Wide 60Hz
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just 1 more pair of KLIPSCH Classic speakers...
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post #5 of 40 Old 01-31-2014, 04:46 PM
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This is what I get with my Denon 4520
For some reason when I run it in Auto mode (all speakers set to small) it switches my crossovers to 60hz for the l+r and 40hz for the center all the rest stay at 80hz with the sub staying at 120hz

La Scala Front left 14.1ft
La Scala Front right 14.9ft
La Scala Center 12.6ft
Triax Sub 8.8ft
Klipsch Heresy Industrial HIP suround left 7.4ft
Klipsch Heresy Industrial HIP surround right 8.8ft

front left -11
front right -9.5
center -9
sub -6.5
surround left -11.5
surround right -9

This is in our current setup in our living room with the Triax which is about 12x15x8

The theater will be 23x15x8 with 2 DTS-10 subs and the rest of the speakers to bring it to 11.2 or maybe even 11.4
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post #6 of 40 Old 01-31-2014, 06:08 PM
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Both of you have better Audyssey than I.
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just 1 more pair of KLIPSCH Classic speakers...
RED AND BLUE=MAROON!

PANASONIC 60" PLASMA 3D, DENON AVR-3312CI, LG BD670 3D NETWORK BRD (iPhone APPs), TOSHIBA HD-XA2 HD DVD, SAMSUNG BD-UP5000 HD DVD/BRD, iPod 8 GB, 13.2: KLIPSCH La Scala 1980 (Crites Rebuilt Type AA Crossovers Sonicaps) FRONT, HERESY II "SIGNATURE EDITION" WIDE, HERESY II CENTER/SURROUND, kg2 SB, kg3/kg1 Front/Rear HEIGHT, RW-12d SW, km-rsw
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post #7 of 40 Old 01-31-2014, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SanchoPanza View Post

Both of you have better Audyssey than I.
What makes you say that?
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post #8 of 40 Old 01-31-2014, 06:41 PM
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The 4311 & 4520 have XT32 and SubEQ HT
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just 1 more pair of KLIPSCH Classic speakers...
RED AND BLUE=MAROON!

PANASONIC 60" PLASMA 3D, DENON AVR-3312CI, LG BD670 3D NETWORK BRD (iPhone APPs), TOSHIBA HD-XA2 HD DVD, SAMSUNG BD-UP5000 HD DVD/BRD, iPod 8 GB, 13.2: KLIPSCH La Scala 1980 (Crites Rebuilt Type AA Crossovers Sonicaps) FRONT, HERESY II "SIGNATURE EDITION" WIDE, HERESY II CENTER/SURROUND, kg2 SB, kg3/kg1 Front/Rear HEIGHT, RW-12d SW, km-rsw
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post #9 of 40 Old 02-02-2014, 03:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ellisr63 View Post

This is what I get with my Denon 4520
For some reason when I run it in Auto mode (all speakers set to small) it switches my crossovers to 60hz for the l+r and 40hz for the center all the rest stay at 80hz with the sub staying at 120hz

La Scala Front left 14.1ft
La Scala Front right 14.9ft
La Scala Center 12.6ft
Triax Sub 8.8ft
Klipsch Heresy Industrial HIP suround left 7.4ft
Klipsch Heresy Industrial HIP surround right 8.8ft

front left -11
front right -9.5
center -9
sub -6.5
surround left -11.5
surround right -9

This is in our current setup in our living room with the Triax which is about 12x15x8

The theater will be 23x15x8 with 2 DTS-10 subs and the rest of the speakers to bring it to 11.2 or maybe even 11.4

Thanks for posting your numbers...Having 3 LaScalas up front must be AWESOME. Fwiw, the best Home Theater I ever heard was at Klipsch HQ in Indy which had 3 up front with 2 Belles in the back and dual THX subs taking up the lower end--Simply amazing!

Btw, I also don't understand what you mean by "Auto mode?" [EDIT: Is that what the settings are in the Advanced settings in Bass Management?}
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post #10 of 40 Old 02-02-2014, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen Traveler View Post

Thanks for posting your numbers...Having 3 LaScalas up front must be AWESOME. Fwiw, the best Home Theater I ever heard was at Klipsch HQ in Indy which had 3 up front with 2 Belles in the back and dual THX subs taking up the lower end--Simply amazing!

Btw, I also don't understand what you mean by "Auto mode?" [EDIT: Is that what the settings are in the Advanced settings in Bass Management?}

Audyssey has manual mode and Audyssey mode ... I did not do the manual mode so I call the other mode auto mode.

Denon 4520ci, 3 JBL 2360As/EV DHA-1s, 3 1/4 Pie bass bins, MiniDSP 2x4s, 4 Klipsch HIPs, 2 Klipsch KP3002s, PS3, XBox 360, 3 Intel NUCs, Monoprice Redmere, Monster HTPS7000, 2 SUPER SPUD subs, Panasonic AE8000u, and a Yamaha P7000s.
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post #11 of 40 Old 02-03-2014, 09:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ellisr63 View Post

Audyssey has manual mode and Audyssey mode ... I did not do the manual mode so I call the other mode auto mode.

I think I understand what you are saying.

Fwiw, after running audyssey it allows you to go in and raise the crossovers in Bass Mgmt. If you do that and then go back and scroll through where audyssey starts applying the filters it shows the original setting but I believe the Denon AVR's Bass mgmt. supersedes what is sent to the sub (in this case, the channel frequency you went and changed in BM). IOW, if you change the crossover, audyssey filters anything below that with it's Low Frequency filters from the sub instead of the individual channel numbers it came up with between there and where you set it.
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post #12 of 40 Old 02-04-2014, 09:49 AM - Thread Starter
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...I also turned Dynamic Volume off and the Dymanic EQ on. Audyssey XT 32 seems to work best in my room and I found that I liked Dolby PLIIx better than Audysey DSX. The latter seemed to sound more echoey whereas PLIIx seems to raise the sound field. We watch movies within -5 to "0" and usually closer to Reference level (last movie was GI Joe @ -2). I also leave DEQ on for multichannel music and concerts and listen closer to -10 and DVD-A.SACD anywhere from -5 to -12 on the MV.

I also think discussing source material to give reference could be beneficial as well: I watched GI Joe at -2 on the dial and the low end hit 106 dB (possibly over a few dB). I then put in Robert Plant and the Band of Joy where it stayed between 85 and 90 dB (w/ a peak or two up to 95 dB) on my SPL meter (C-weighted) and -3 on the MV of the Denon AVR-4311ci.
Anyone else?

My wife and I enjoyed HP The Half-blood Prince at -2.5 on the MV and so far most movies we watch within 2 dB of that setting. What level do any of you watch the movies discussed? Anybody have any favorite GOTO scenes in other movies? Just curious because with Audyssey it seems I listen considerably closer to Reference Level than before without it being "too loud."

I also experienced the Alanis Morissette concert Live from Montreux at -13 to -10 before it got too loud and again put in the Robert Plant concert mentioned above and it sounded most excellent at -3 to -5. Does anyone else have any concerts they watch or have comments about my source material?
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post #13 of 40 Old 02-08-2014, 04:22 PM - Thread Starter
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I just listened to some of my favorite Talking Heads songs on DVD-A and was wondering if anyone who has Audyssey would post how loud they listen to any of these songs on either the Main Volume or SPL Meter:

I have found between -10 to 12 perfect to achieve an (approx) 80 to 94 dB average and high:

Burning down the House (extended version: My ultimate showing off my system/take to other places disk.
Houses in Motion (The loudest and second favorite of songs tested at 94 dB peaks)
Once in a Lifetime, Listening Wind, Mommy Daddy You and I, Big Daddy, Sax and Violins, along with Take me to the River, were the ones I listened to this evening.

That said, if you have your favorite songs on any of these disks please post those numbers as well. smile.gif
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post #14 of 40 Old 02-08-2014, 04:41 PM
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These are what I'm getting with the X4000

Fronts
RF83
L. -6.5 @ 13.2 ft
R -6.0 @ 14ft


Center
RC64
-5.5 @ 14.1 ft

Surrounds
RS62
L. -8.5 @ 6.7 ft
R. -7.0 @ 6.4 ft

Subwoofer
SW350
-5.5 @ 17 ft

I have dynamic volume off and most of the time leave dynamic eq off as well. Still trying to decide what sounds best.
I love listening to music in multi-channel stereo, but am worried about playing it loud because I've read of several peoples X4000 shutting down on the denon avr thread and I also called denon and was told that it may cause the avr to go into protection mode with my speakers. Still thinking about an amp because at -10db, which I read is recommended to set volume limit to, I still want it louder sometimes.
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post #15 of 40 Old 02-08-2014, 05:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Those numbers look good and at 14 ft from your front soundstage you must have a pretty big room....I have two thoughts: 1) With 2 channel music I would think having just the RF-83s and your subwoofer would sound awesome especially not having to compete with the same material coming out of your inferior speakers. 2) Have you tried Dolby PLXII on 2 channel material and using that as a multichannel parameter? Fwiw, I don't listen to 2 channel material much, but when I do it's in "2.1". Of course, YMMV. {Note: I also think that at -10 on the MV, multichannel stereo may be taxing your AVR}

The only other thing I am curious about is if you run your speakers as Small and set a crossover, which is what I would do. If you are and have most of your speakers crossed over at 60 to 80 Hz and you still want it louder (and if none of the above helps) you may need an external amp. Good Luck.
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post #16 of 40 Old 02-08-2014, 05:29 PM
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Was thinking I'd listen to 2 channel in Stereo 2.1 with those RF-83s.

just 1 more pair of KLIPSCH Classic speakers...
RED AND BLUE=MAROON!

PANASONIC 60" PLASMA 3D, DENON AVR-3312CI, LG BD670 3D NETWORK BRD (iPhone APPs), TOSHIBA HD-XA2 HD DVD, SAMSUNG BD-UP5000 HD DVD/BRD, iPod 8 GB, 13.2: KLIPSCH La Scala 1980 (Crites Rebuilt Type AA Crossovers Sonicaps) FRONT, HERESY II "SIGNATURE EDITION" WIDE, HERESY II CENTER/SURROUND, kg2 SB, kg3/kg1 Front/Rear HEIGHT, RW-12d SW, km-rsw
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post #17 of 40 Old 02-08-2014, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen Traveler View Post

Those numbers look good and at 14 ft from your front soundstage you must have a pretty big room....I have two thoughts: 1) With 2 channel music I would think having just the RF-83s and your subwoofer would sound awesome especially not having to compete with the same material coming out of your inferior speakers. 2) Have you tried Dolby PLXII on 2 channel material and using that as a multichannel parameter? Fwiw, I don't listen to 2 channel material much, but when I do it's in "2.1". Of course, YMMV. {Note: I also think that at -10 on the MV, multichannel stereo may be taxing your AVR}

The only other thing I am curious about is if you run your speakers as Small and set a crossover, which is what I would do. If you are and have most of your speakers crossed over at 60 to 80 Hz and you still want it louder (and if none of the above helps) you may need an external amp. Good Luck.

Yeah, the room is 24x14. I like the multi-channel stereo because I like having the music surround me. It does sound good in stereo, I just like it better with multi-channel. I have tried the Dolby PLXII, but for some reason, I don't like it. I don't know if it sounds too processed or just not natural or what, but I've tried it several times, and it's just not for me.

I do run my speakers as small. I have the speakers crossed over at 80 Hz. I would like to go 60 Hz on the 83s, but want to take as much load off the avr as I can.

I'll keep my set-up as is until October, then try an amp. October is my birthday😄. I know emotiva has a 30 return policy, so if it helps, I'll keep it. If everything seems the same, I'll send it back. But will probably end up keeping it, lower crossover on the 83s and not have to worry about the volume
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post #18 of 40 Old 02-08-2014, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SanchoPanza View Post

Was thinking I'd listen to 2 channel in Stereo 2.1 with those RF-83s.

Do you not like multi-channel stereo? To me it gives it a fuller sound that I like, plus as said above, I like the music to surround me.
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post #19 of 40 Old 02-08-2014, 05:56 PM
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Did love it when I had 5 Heresy II & a pair of kg2; when I added the La Scalas, I found 2.2 better, because they are so much better than the 5 HIIs.

When I can get more La Scalas, I'll try it again.

just 1 more pair of KLIPSCH Classic speakers...
RED AND BLUE=MAROON!

PANASONIC 60" PLASMA 3D, DENON AVR-3312CI, LG BD670 3D NETWORK BRD (iPhone APPs), TOSHIBA HD-XA2 HD DVD, SAMSUNG BD-UP5000 HD DVD/BRD, iPod 8 GB, 13.2: KLIPSCH La Scala 1980 (Crites Rebuilt Type AA Crossovers Sonicaps) FRONT, HERESY II "SIGNATURE EDITION" WIDE, HERESY II CENTER/SURROUND, kg2 SB, kg3/kg1 Front/Rear HEIGHT, RW-12d SW, km-rsw
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post #20 of 40 Old 02-08-2014, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SanchoPanza View Post

Did love it when I had 5 Heresy II & a pair of kg2; when I added the La Scalas, I found 2.2 better, because they are so much better than the 5 HIIs.

When I can get more La Scalas, I'll try it again.

Speaking of La Scalas, they have some on New Orleans craigslist in Metairie.
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post #21 of 40 Old 02-08-2014, 08:05 PM - Thread Starter
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I am not a fan of "multichannel stereo" because my mains can play that material better than the rest of my speakers (and incorporating my subs). That said, you may very well benefit from an amp for that primary purpose (and especially in a large room), but feel you would gain more by spending that money for an additional subwoofer, especially if a budget is considered, Fwiw, that could also really benefit 5.1 material.
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post #22 of 40 Old 02-09-2014, 04:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sadie777 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by SanchoPanza View Post

Did love it when I had 5 Heresy II & a pair of kg2; when I added the La Scalas, I found 2.2 better, because they are so much better than the 5 HIIs.

When I can get more La Scalas, I'll try it again.

Speaking of La Scalas, they have some on New Orleans craigslist in Metairie.

Tried to get him to send pics. He was long on promise & short on delivery. No worry, I don't care for Black.

just 1 more pair of KLIPSCH Classic speakers...
RED AND BLUE=MAROON!

PANASONIC 60" PLASMA 3D, DENON AVR-3312CI, LG BD670 3D NETWORK BRD (iPhone APPs), TOSHIBA HD-XA2 HD DVD, SAMSUNG BD-UP5000 HD DVD/BRD, iPod 8 GB, 13.2: KLIPSCH La Scala 1980 (Crites Rebuilt Type AA Crossovers Sonicaps) FRONT, HERESY II "SIGNATURE EDITION" WIDE, HERESY II CENTER/SURROUND, kg2 SB, kg3/kg1 Front/Rear HEIGHT, RW-12d SW, km-rsw
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post #23 of 40 Old 02-09-2014, 07:02 PM
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Tried to get him to send pics. He was long on promise & short on delivery. No worry, I don't care for Black.

I figured you had seen the ad, just wanted to let you know in case you had not. I don't understand some people on craigslist. How in the world do you expect to sell an item you refuse to post pics of??
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post #24 of 40 Old 02-09-2014, 10:52 PM
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Yes, thanks, I rather be told about it 10 times, than miss a good deal!

just 1 more pair of KLIPSCH Classic speakers...
RED AND BLUE=MAROON!

PANASONIC 60" PLASMA 3D, DENON AVR-3312CI, LG BD670 3D NETWORK BRD (iPhone APPs), TOSHIBA HD-XA2 HD DVD, SAMSUNG BD-UP5000 HD DVD/BRD, iPod 8 GB, 13.2: KLIPSCH La Scala 1980 (Crites Rebuilt Type AA Crossovers Sonicaps) FRONT, HERESY II "SIGNATURE EDITION" WIDE, HERESY II CENTER/SURROUND, kg2 SB, kg3/kg1 Front/Rear HEIGHT, RW-12d SW, km-rsw
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post #25 of 40 Old 02-10-2014, 08:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Last night I watched Pink Floyd Pulse at -3 on the MV which let achieve 80 to 90 dB averages with peaks up to 95 dB on the SPL meter...I then put in Sarah McLauchlan's Afterglow concert and achieved the same SPL level at --3 on the MV. If anyone has either of these two concerts or even a different source it would be interesting to see your results.
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post #26 of 40 Old 02-19-2014, 12:01 AM
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Well, I went ahead and bought a used emotiva xpa-3 from someone off the classifieds section. I'll update with the results as to whether it has helped or made any type of difference once I get it. I figure it's not gonna hurt anything to try it out and if no benefit at all, I'll just resell it. They seem to sell fast here, so that should not be a problem.
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post #27 of 40 Old 02-21-2014, 02:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, I went ahead and bought a used emotiva xpa-3 from someone off the classifieds section. I'll update with the results as to whether it has helped or made any type of difference once I get it. I figure it's not gonna hurt anything to try it out and if no benefit at all, I'll just resell it. They seem to sell fast here, so that should not be a problem.

Hey Sadie--Most people who want an amp seem to enjoy them especially if they don't have initial problems.

For the record, I haven't tried to talk folks outta purchasing one, but given how expensive this hobby can be, try to give a second opinion how valuable one is as an "upgrade." If your speakers are distorting at the volume you want to listen then they definitely could be of benefit, but it has been awful telling that no one over the years on the Klipsch Owners Thread actually know how loud they listen to material...Those that measure with an SPL meter have at least a reference at which to compare along with or without Audyssey.

The reason I started this thread was because on Multichannel material (in particular Dolby Digital and DTS) there is a Reference Point using Audyssey at which the loudness on the Main Volume should be the same in all of our rooms and not just a random number...The last discussion I had about amps originated from a guy whose example started from saying everyone would benefit from an external amp based on his experience only to find he had abnormal and changing criteria as the discussion went on (i.e., set speakers to Large with sub to listen to bass heavy material & "+6" above Reference Level; After I pointed out how extremely loud that was and his sub should take up more of the lower end, came to find out he only played it that loud when he was outside having a beer and wanted to hear it. :0)

After wondering why some folks took the question "How loud do you listen?" as aggressive, I started a thread over on the Klipsch Forum and found the people there can't wait to tell you the exact volume they appreciate listening to material: https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/148249-how-loud-do-you-listen/

I also remember you liking the multichannel stereo setting--That too can be taxing on an avr if you have your speakers taking up the lower notes and why I recommended another setting or raising the crossovers. That said, the difference between your X-4000 and my AVR-4311ci is that mine is rated to drive speakers that are 4 Ohm and my guess is that your manual states to be careful with speakers that have lower impedance (which may or may not make a difference with the RF-83/RC-64, etc.) at loud volume. Anyway, saw your post and there is nothing more exciting than getting new toys. smile.gif Good Luck.
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post #28 of 40 Old 02-21-2014, 05:15 PM
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Thanks Zen

I actually called Denon and asked about the x4000 and the impedance dips of the RF83s and was told that it might cause problems and could cause the avr to overheat and shut down. That is one of the reasons I wanted to get an amp. Also listening to multichannel music is another.

I have read some people said that an amp has improved the sound quality of their speakers and others say that is just not true. I don't know what is true and what isn't, but I'll find out.
There is another reason I want to try an amp. Do you remember me saying earlier how my RF83s sounded horrible with my H/K avr, but my WF35s sounded very good with the H/K? The 83s had no midrange on the H/K. They are better on the Denon, but they still don't sound right. To be honest, I'm kind of disappionted with them right now. In a way, my Wf35s sound better than them, and I know that shouldn't be the case. I don't really know the correct way to describe what I'm hearing or not hearing, but the Wf35s just sound more musical. For example, one of my favorite songs is Back To Good by Matchbox 20. On my Wf35s this song sounds good, on my 83s, not so good. The vocals sound good, but there should also be music playing alongside the vocals, and it is just not very present on the 83s. On the 35s, you can hear it all and it sounds great. I don't understand why this is, but it bothers me so much. I don't know if this is the way they are supposed to sound, but I can't imagine that would be the case.
So I thought since the sound was better going from the H/k to denon on the 83s was an improvement ( with H/K there was hardly any music on this song at all, denon brought some music out, but not as it should be) then an amp would be a bigger improvement. I hope so. Maybe I'm just being ignorant because I really don't know much about these things.

I think that's one of the reasons multichannel stereo sounds better to me, it brings the music out more.

Maybe there is something wrong with my speakers, maybe I'm just crazy, Lol. I hope the paragraph above made sense. Sorry if it doesn't . Like I said, I really don't know how to describe it, don't know technical terms.

If you have any insight as to what may be going on, I'd love to hear it.
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post #29 of 40 Old 02-23-2014, 02:50 AM
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I was reading reviews on Amazon for the Denon 4520 and found this:

"Power is somewhat lacking. I will say, to be fair, I am used to a setup with separate amps and preamps, so maybe I'm spoiled. But just on playing music, single notes play fine but chords and then multiple instruments definitely clip down in sound levels. I'm sure someone will tell me that they have measured power output, blah, blah, but it just really feels underpowered to me. My room is about 22 x 15, and I'm not getting the sound levels I expected."

That kind of describes what is going on with mine. I put that quote here because I'm having a hard time describing what I'm hearing and thought it might help explain.
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post #30 of 40 Old 02-23-2014, 06:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Zen

I actually called Denon and asked about the x4000 and the impedance dips of the RF83s and was told that it might cause problems and could cause the avr to overheat and shut down. That is one of the reasons I wanted to get an amp. Also listening to multichannel music is another.

I have read some people said that an amp has improved the sound quality of their speakers and others say that is just not true. I don't know what is true and what isn't, but I'll find out.
There is another reason I want to try an amp. Do you remember me saying earlier how my RF83s sounded horrible with my H/K avr, but my WF35s sounded very good with the H/K? The 83s had no midrange on the H/K. They are better on the Denon, but they still don't sound right. To be honest, I'm kind of disappionted with them right now. In a way, my Wf35s sound better than them, and I know that shouldn't be the case. I don't really know the correct way to describe what I'm hearing or not hearing, but the Wf35s just sound more musical. For example, one of my favorite songs is Back To Good by Matchbox 20. On my Wf35s this song sounds good, on my 83s, not so good. The vocals sound good, but there should also be music playing alongside the vocals, and it is just not very present on the 83s. On the 35s, you can hear it all and it sounds great. I don't understand why this is, but it bothers me so much. I don't know if this is the way they are supposed to sound, but I can't imagine that would be the case.
So I thought since the sound was better going from the H/k to denon on the 83s was an improvement ( with H/K there was hardly any music on this song at all, denon brought some music out, but not as it should be) then an amp would be a bigger improvement. I hope so. Maybe I'm just being ignorant because I really don't know much about these things.

I think that's one of the reasons multichannel stereo sounds better to me, it brings the music out more.

Maybe there is something wrong with my speakers, maybe I'm just crazy, Lol. I hope the paragraph above made sense. Sorry if it doesn't . Like I said, I really don't know how to describe it, don't know technical terms.

If you have any insight as to what may be going on, I'd love to hear it.

Hey Sadie--I don't listen to much two channel, but put in my Matchbox20 CD and listened to 3AM and Back 2 Good: In Direct mode and PLz Multichannel and at -10 it was a constant 80 to 90 dB with peaks to 94 dB. When I switched to Multichannel stereo at -13 on the MV it was indeed louder even 4 clicks lower and it peaks at 96 dB but the bass seemed boomy to me....I then put in one of their concert videos (Show-A night in the life of Matchbox20) and played those same songs at -6 on the MV and it sounded nice with peaks to 95 and averaged close to 85 dBs or so...

Insofar as your situation is concerned--I don't know and hope an external amp will help bring back your midrange and possibly the X4000 not rated to drive 4 Ohm speakers could be the culprit...Fwiw, that's why I chose to buy the discontinued AVR-4311ci along with it had an excellent track record from users here at AVS and had Audyssey X-32. {Note: I don't trust the Amazon Revue of the AVR-5420 and feel his opinion may be more psychological given what I've read in the AVR 4520 Owners Thread--When one says they don't trust measurements and don't even consider measuring how loud they listen to material, then it's too subjective for me to give it any weight.}

The other thing I thought of is that the RF-83/RC-64 are warmer speakers than what traditionally Klipsch makes and your WF line is probably considerably brighter--That said, I would think the bass and midrange would sound better on the RF-83s--I feel it would be more obvious if the metal jumpers on your speakers weren't in place but it may be something to check out (i.e., binding posts should have them on the back). Anyway, those are my thoughts over morning coffee...
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