Subwoofer placement - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 16 Old 02-10-2014, 11:42 AM - Thread Starter
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I discovered last night after many months of setup and design that the subwoofer sounds the best in the back of the room, behind the seating area. I had always been taught that it should be placed in the front and near the front speakers. I have found that by moving it to the back of the room, the center and front speakers highs and mids are much more discernible and the lows aren't as muddy as they previously were. The lows are also a lot more punchy and discernible. It also helps with stereo imagining a lot. I also recommend getting a Butt Kicker to pair with it. I have a stereo and a 10 band equalizer powering it and it makes your theater experience so much more in-depth.

Equipment: Energy Take Classic Speakers, Subwoofer: Energy S8, Aura Bass Shaker, and a Pioneer Elite VSX 36TX AVR.
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post #2 of 16 Old 02-10-2014, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by voll96 View Post

I have found that by moving it to the back of the room, the center and front speakers highs and mids are much more discernible and the lows aren't as muddy as they previously were.

The only way to know for sure where is best for a subwoofer is to measure your room as you experiment:

Room Measuring Primer

Generally, integrating the sub properly will be better than sticking it in the back of the room, even if that sounds subjectively better initially. Room measuring software will also help you balance the volume levels between all the speakers including the sub.

Just as important is having bass traps and other acoustic treatment. This short article is mainly about home recording, but all the same principles apply to hi-fi and home theater acoustics too:

Acoustic Basics

--Ethan

RealTraps - The acoustic treatment experts

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post #3 of 16 Old 02-11-2014, 10:30 AM
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What an incredibly detailed response to that question.
I have read your reply and unfortunately, (for me) do not understand what the point is as I am sadly computer illiterate.
Those are pretty graphs however.

I do have a desk top computer, microphone stand, xlr cabling and professional microphone used for performing.
I must assume the microphone is not calibrated.
I do not know whether I have a soundcard in my computer but I assume there is one. It is fully featured.

I have an issue similar to the poster regarding placement and am very interested in your reply but unsure of how to use the information to improve the room deficits.
Do I need to know how to use excel? If so I will not be able to proceed with your information.
The article provided is extensive but I do not see the point/solution and will re read it again.

If you would care to comment on my issue I would appreciate it.
I have two subs, one in the front left corner and one behind the seating area to the right.
I have Audyssey calibration available courtesy of my Marantz AV-8003 processor.
There is a microphone included with the Marantz for Audyssey calibration it has a mini jack.
Perhaps it would be more suitable for the computer use?

The room is 26 x 16 x 8 and is set up with screen at front of long dimension.
Seating is approximately 12 feet back from the screen and centered within the room.

I have set up the sound using a hand held analog sound meter and the Marantz internal test tones and have also utilized Audyssey calibration as well.
Even with boosting the calibrated bass settings to 79 from the 75 level that all other channels are set to, bass is weak.
It is detailed, but not authoritive and certainly not overpowering.
I have played with the phase settings on the second sub behind the seating area.
The front sub I have kept in phase with the mains the second sub i have exact opposite phase to the front.
Here is a list of my stuff.


JVC RS-40 projector
Da-Lite 96 inch Cinema-Vision fixed screen with Pro trim
Marantz AV-8003 processor
Marantz RC-2001 learning remote
Aragon 8008 2 channel amplifier
Emotiva XPR-5
Thorens TD 160B MK2 turntable
SME series 3 tone arm
Audio Technica AT150MLX VM Cartridge
Klipsch RF-7, RC-64 ii, RS-35, KSW-12
SVS PB 13 Ultra subwoofer
OPPO 103 DVD Blu ray player
Motorola 3416 PVR with 1 TB expander
Rotel RQ 970BX phono pre amp
2 Darbee vision visual presence enhancers
Luxman 4 channel amplifier for multi zone playback
Hafler Equalizer for zone use
Technics 5 pack carousel CD player
Dell desk top computer and screen network music player storage
Lutron Maestro dimmers
GIK acoustic wall treatments 244 and 242 models
Buffalo IR repeater model 350 and IR flashers IR-E1 for home control of audio zones and PVR
Ultra Link cable and wire

I suppose a second SVS Ultra in the opposite front left corner would help even things but I would have thought tohave enough bass energy with the two sub set up.
I would like to use your method to achieve a better overall bass output throughout the listening area.

If you would be so kind as to explain a bit more about it and how to use it?

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post #4 of 16 Old 02-11-2014, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwi2000 View Post

If you would be so kind as to explain a bit more about it and how to use it?

No, you don't need to use Excel to measure your room. But since you're a GIK customer, you should take advantage of their technical assistance by phone or email. I'm sure they can walk you through using the Room EQ Wizard software.

--Ethan

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post #5 of 16 Old 02-11-2014, 12:20 PM
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I found GIK to have good product but poor customer support and interaction, so that will not be an option for me.
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post #6 of 16 Old 02-12-2014, 12:05 PM
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after part 4 under "connecting everything together" what is that piece of equipment that everything is connected to?
You stated that if I were to purchase the recommended microphone a dayton model that an external sound card was not required.
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post #7 of 16 Old 02-13-2014, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwi2000 View Post

after part 4 under "connecting everything together" what is that piece of equipment that everything is connected to? You stated that if I were to purchase the recommended microphone a dayton model that an external sound card was not required.

That's an external USB sound card. Yes, a USB microphone is a good option if you don't already have a suitable sound card.

--Ethan

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post #8 of 16 Old 02-13-2014, 07:20 PM
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Yes, a USB microphone is a good option if you don't already have a suitable sound card.

how would I know?

I just listened to a bass heavy blu ray movie.

No bass.

The analog meter confirms a rise with the second sub set to the opposite phase setting yet still no bass?
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post #9 of 16 Old 03-02-2014, 08:23 PM
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Voll, If you like the sub in the back then..... Im thinking thats your answer.
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post #10 of 16 Old 03-03-2014, 06:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwi2000 View Post

I found GIK to have good product but poor customer support and interaction, so that will not be an option for me.

I'd reach out to them again if I were you. I started out with two bass traps, just to see if I could notice a difference and with their help and support over the past years, I now have, roughly, 17 panels that I've purchased from them and everything placed in my room based on their recommendation and many e-mail exchanges.
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post #11 of 16 Old 03-03-2014, 07:35 AM
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I'd reach out to them again if I were you. I started out with two bass traps, just to see if I could notice a difference and with their help and support over the past years, I now have, roughly, 17 panels that I've purchased from them and everything placed in my room based on their recommendation and many e-mail exchanges.

Maybe I will try them once again but my purchase experience was less than ideal.
I always got a different person in email exchanges, then for a period no replies from my emails and they stated it was because someone was on vacation.
The whole purchase experience took months to complete when it should have taken days.

But thanks I will consider the option.

Maybe they are more organized now?

I moved my second sub to the front wall with the primary sub woofer and have noticed a marked increase in bass response.
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post #12 of 16 Old 03-03-2014, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwi2000 View Post

Quote:
Yes, a USB microphone is a good option if you don't already have a suitable sound card.
how would I know?

If your sound card doesn't have an input with a professional XLR connector, then a USB microphone is a good solution.

Also, if you're looking for a better vendor of acoustic treatment products, my company's name is in my sig below.

--Ethan

RealTraps - The acoustic treatment experts

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post #13 of 16 Old 03-04-2014, 05:44 PM
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Hey Mr. OP, look at this also: home theater calibration 101. If you had purchased something like the XTZ Room Analyzer or the Room EQ Wizard stuff (much more complex) you would have sped through your months of tweaking with sub positioning a lot faster! For acoustic treatment you can also try Primacoustic, who are based in Canada.


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. We specialize in the design and creation of high performance listening rooms, home theaters and project studios for discerning audio/video enthusiasts.
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post #14 of 16 Old 03-05-2014, 08:55 AM
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Just a aspect to this conversation... I decided to buy a separate room correction system 8033 from DSPeaker for my subwoofer (i have a 5.1 system run by marantz sr5008 that also ships with calibration mic and audyssey). Even most AV amps have features like audyssey xt, it's not usually a true active room calibration but rather a volume sensitivity and distance control system. So I didn't end up using the audyssey of my av amp since it has no resolution over frequencies when controlling the volume level and trying to dampen the resonances acoordingly to the room.

This is why it can be a good idea to use some DSP atleast for your subwoofer (since the wavelenght is longer on low frequencies you get a bigger area of improvement) to dampen out the peaks that are caused by resonances in your room. Of course bass traps cause a more wide correction since they absorb the bouncing waves, but often you listen to your system from a quite stationary post like couch etc so it can be sensible to correct a certain reqion of your room.

Basically most of the DSP systems makes several frequency sweeps and adjusts the volume of different frequencies to same reference level. In my case after calibration I was able to lift the subwoofers amplification level substantially since I was able to adjust the subs level to reference level instead of the peak levels of room resonances.

Most of the DSP's are easy to setup, I made short less than two mins tutorial on calibrating the 8033. This applies to many DSP's out there: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEJDZIK4fUk

Some related products:
http://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/minidsp-2x4
http://www.dspeaker.com/
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post #15 of 16 Old 03-05-2014, 11:19 AM
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Maybe I will try them once again but my purchase experience was less than ideal.
I always got a different person in email exchanges, then for a period no replies from my emails and they stated it was because someone was on vacation.
The whole purchase experience took months to complete when it should have taken days.

But thanks I will consider the option.

Maybe they are more organized now?


Glenn here, the owner of GIK Acoustics. I would like to talk with you over the phone or email to find out how things got broken down. No company can bat 100% but it would be good for me to know why it took so long to get things straightened out. We do pride yourself on giving the best customer service possible and when there is a problem, we try to face it head on. If you do not mind can you reach me at 770 986 2789 or though my email at glenn.k (at) gikacosutics.com (sorry had to put it that way due to bots)? I really want to get to the bottom of this.

Thanks and really do look forward talking with you. I am truly sorry for any kind of breakdown from our side.

Glenn Kuras
GIK Acoustics


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post #16 of 16 Old 03-05-2014, 11:43 AM
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Here is a USB mic that I believe will work.
http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-emm-6-electret-measurement-microphone--390-801

Glenn Kuras
GIK Acoustics


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