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post #1 of 36 Old 02-24-2014, 07:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi

Okay so I have a fairly old surround sound system that I want to use with our LG TV.

The main use for this TV is games consoles, mainly xbox 360 (connected via HDMI).

Surround sound system has digital optical cable input as a connection.

TV has digital audio out.

My question is, can I connect the TV to the s.s system so that the audio coming from the TV comes out of the s.s system, if I am getting sound from the xbox into the TV via HDMI?
 
i.e.   XBOX 360   ---HDMI--->   TV   ---OPTICAL SOUND CABLE--->   Surround Sound System
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post #2 of 36 Old 02-24-2014, 08:42 AM
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Maybe. Check your TV's owner's manual and/or give it a try.

Many TVs will only forward stereo PCM from their HDMI inputs to their S/PDIF digital audio outputs. Some will forward 5.1 Dolby Digital. A very few will forward DTS. Most only forward 5.1 audio if the signal source is their internal TV tuner or a network audio source.

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post #3 of 36 Old 02-24-2014, 09:21 AM
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If the TV path will not work, you can use "HDMI audio splitter/stripper", the box that takes audio from HDMI and outputs through its optical to your surround system.
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post #4 of 36 Old 02-24-2014, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atozea View Post

Hi

Surround sound system has digital optical cable input as a connection.

TV has digital audio out.


i.e.   XBOX 360   ---HDMI--->   TV   ---OPTICAL SOUND CABLE--->   Surround Sound System

Does your TV have TOSLINK optical output or SPDIF optical output or COAXIAL digital output (not optical)???

Same question applies to the input on the surround system. If you don't know the answer, you need to read the manuals carefully and find out!

If you don't know which of the three types you are dealing with, and the differences, you don't have much chance of sorting it out. They are not compatible with each other.

You can only connect one to the other if the input is the exact same type as the output you want to connect it to.
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post #5 of 36 Old 02-25-2014, 05:52 AM
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There are only two types of S/PDIF:
1) optical (or Toslink)
2) coax
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post #6 of 36 Old 02-26-2014, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

There are only two types of S/PDIF:
1) optical (or Toslink)
2) coax

Three, actually.

-Toslink

-SPDIF dual optical-fibre link

-coaxial cable (electrical RF signal)

(see Wikipedia "SPDIF")

In any case, SPDIF does not have the bandwidth of HDMI and does not support as many surround-sound formats.
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post #7 of 36 Old 02-27-2014, 06:14 AM
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Any example of a consumer TV/AVR/etc. that uses dual-fiber S/PDIF (which I would assume would be either SC or ST connectors)? I've never seen or heard of it for audio.
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post #8 of 36 Old 02-27-2014, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

Any example of a consumer TV/AVR/etc. that uses dual-fiber S/PDIF (which I would assume would be either SC or ST connectors)? I've never seen or heard of it for audio.

ST fiber is used for pro audio and therefore no doubt someone has appropriated that for consumer use:

http://www.canford.co.uk/BCD-AES-3-AUDIO-TO-ST-FIBRE-INTERFACE-FAB

Classe is a high end consumer brand and their CDT-1 transport and DTP-1 DAC have ST fiber ports.
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post #9 of 36 Old 02-27-2014, 11:00 AM
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The 'professor' specifically stated:
Quote:
-SPDIF dual optical-fibre link

so far, there are no examples of that.
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post #10 of 36 Old 02-27-2014, 11:05 AM
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Super!
But generally S/PDIF is Toslink or coax for "average" (J6P) consumer audio. We're not addressing pro audio or those with an open wallet for high end/esoteric stuff.
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post #11 of 36 Old 02-27-2014, 11:23 AM
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Yeah, if it were high end, I'm pretty sure he'd post the make and model number. "Fairly old surround sound system" will usually mean run of the mill connections.

Don't believe everything on the Interwebz! A duck's quack DOES echo!
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post #12 of 36 Old 02-27-2014, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAM64 View Post

The 'professor' specifically stated:
Quote:
-SPDIF dual optical-fibre link

so far, there are no examples of that.

A dual optical link would likely involve a peripheral that needed 2 way communication, e.g. record and play.

I am intimately familiar devices such as that, one being the Behringer ADA 8000. The ADA 8000 routes 8 24/48 channels through each fiber.

Here's the interface:



There are a goodly number of audio interfaces and also competitive devices that use this kind of link.
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post #13 of 36 Old 02-27-2014, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
A dual optical link would likely involve a peripheral that needed 2 way communication, e.g. record and play.

Which would be two independent S/PDIF interfaces and can be accomplished with Toslink of coax.
Quote:
I am intimately familiar devices such as that, one being the Behringer ADA 8000. The ADA 8000 routes 8 24/48 channels through each fiber.

Many of us are familiar with ADAT interfaces such as the one you mentioned, however, this is about S/PDIF interfaces, not ADAT....there is a difference.
Quote:
There are a goodly number of audio interfaces and also competitive devices that use this kind of link.

In your quest to be the all knowing expert, you seemed to have missed the absence of S/PDIF interfaces on the device you so cleverly posted a picture of.
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post #14 of 36 Old 02-27-2014, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

There are only two types of S/PDIF:

-SPDIF dual optical-fibre link

Perhaps referencng this:



The dual fiber being the optical fiber and its supporting tube?

The fiber may actually be two different materials molded so as to help retain the light?
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post #15 of 36 Old 02-27-2014, 02:24 PM
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Arny...
I know you have knowledge and experience. It is appreciated by many.

Arguing and/or posting pictures and being a google expert doesn't help when the KISS principle is usually applicable.
It may be needed with only one poster, but not every poster. wink.gif

Let's allow the poster in post #6 to address post #7. wink.gif
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post #16 of 36 Old 02-27-2014, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

A dual optical link would likely involve a peripheral that needed 2 way communication, e.g. record and play.
A dual optical link would likely involve a separate TX/RX pair that is not necessary for PCM or bitstream audio.
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post #17 of 36 Old 02-27-2014, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

Arny...
I know you have knowledge and experience. It is appreciated by many.

Arguing and/or posting pictures and being a google expert doesn't help when the KISS principle is usually applicable.
It may be needed with only one poster, but not every poster. wink.gif

Let's allow the poster in post #6 to address post #7. wink.gif

And that my friend can reasonably expected to never happen, based on extensive past experience.
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post #18 of 36 Old 02-28-2014, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

Any example of a consumer TV/AVR/etc. that uses dual-fiber S/PDIF (which I would assume would be either SC or ST connectors)? I've never seen or heard of it for audio.
You shouldn't ask him but rather, whoever created the Wiki which states the same thing.

I do know of a couple of products that used dual link optical, both from Sony. It was however a proprietary implementation that separated the clock from the signal (smart thing to do). One is the Sony CDP-R1/DAS-R1 combo:

05-23371-51682.jpg

And the business end showing the cable and connector:

05-23371-51682b.jpg

c.jpg

The other is the Sony CDP R10/DAS R10:

HGF.jpg

And the close up of that:

h.jpg

These are pretty classic products,especially the R1. Were you guys not around when they were announced?

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post #19 of 36 Old 02-28-2014, 10:26 AM
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You're my hero.... antique/proprietary implementations. rolleyes.gif
No different than Wiki being "gospel". Was that your Wiki entry? smile.gif

LOL! I just noticed... what is "electorical"? I guess I wasn't around before the spelling changed. biggrin.gif
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post #20 of 36 Old 03-01-2014, 05:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

LOL! I just noticed... what is "electorical"? I guess I wasn't around before the spelling changed. biggrin.gif
It is a rather common mistranslation by non-native English speaking people in Japan. Some call it "Jinglish." Here are other examples:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Panasonic-HX-DC1-HD-Camcorder-1920x1080/dp/tech-data/B004OR0VSQ
"Image Stabilizer: E.I.S. [Electorical Image Stabilizer]"

http://www.panasonic.com/in/business/security-systems/analog-cameras/fixed-dome-cameras/wv-cf112.html
"High sensitivity with Day/Night (electorical) function: 0.08 lx (Color), 0.07 lx (B/W) at F1.4"

http://fyi.toshiba.com:81/KB/file_uploads/7206/es202S-Service-v01.pdf
"(Electorical detector/SW/Sensor)"

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post #21 of 36 Old 03-01-2014, 06:16 AM
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You'd think that with all the revenue the Sony name generates, they'd hire a good translator.
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post #22 of 36 Old 03-01-2014, 07:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

You'd think that with all the revenue the Sony name generates, they'd hire a good translator.

One word: Outsourcing.

Like, the whole project not just the assembly.
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post #23 of 36 Old 03-01-2014, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

One word: Outsourcing.

Like, the whole project not just the assembly.
Not those machines. This was still the golden years of Japanese audio design/manufacturing. We are talking 1980s. The CDP-R10/DAS-R10 retailed for something like $18,000! They only made a couple of hundred of them for Japanese market. They made a lot more of the CDP-R1/DAC-R1 combo but still very low volume and all designed and manufactured in-house.

I miss 1970s and 1980s HiFi days. We didn't have the emphasis we have today on the cheapest junk that sells. I mean look at the guts of DAS-R10:

20080316_afbe7652b32d2e701522jSec52.jpg

See those hybrid Sony modules. Massive power supply. Remember, this is just a DAC, not an amplifier.

Anyway no, outsourcing is the name of the game today, not then. The high-end audio market is still where you find that kind of craftsmanship and in-house design and manufacturing.

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post #24 of 36 Old 03-01-2014, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

You'd think that with all the revenue the Sony name generates, they'd hire a good translator.
I don't think you are appreciating the Japanese culture. English words are used as style. Clearly there would be no need to have English labels for a Japanese products. But they put them there to make it look "cool." The wrong spelling and usage of English words is commonplace in Japan. Turn on the Japanese channel there and you often hear English words or phrases in ads, most of which are improper by our understanding of English. But it is "correct" in their culture.

Suggest watching the movie Lost in Translation. Only the people who have spent time in Japan appreciate the subtext in that movie. But it will still give you a feel for what I am talking about.

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post #25 of 36 Old 03-01-2014, 08:39 AM
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I appreciate the Japanese culture. Many of the them have better English grammar than the majority of Americans.

If your facts are correct, I don't appreciate or understand why that's "stylish or cool". If you're selling a product to a different country, label the device properly. Other countries can do it.
I could understand if it were products in the 70's or 80's sold by Soundesign or Goldstar, I could chuckle (or find it very Funai). But from Sony?

Talk about lost in translation. rolleyes.gif
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post #26 of 36 Old 03-01-2014, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

I appreciate the Japanese culture. Many of the them have better English grammar than the majority of Americans.
What I explained has nothing to do with them "having better English Grammar than the majority of Americans." It has to do with their use of English for Japanese consumers. Pocari Sweat that you see in practically every vending machine there is a good example of this:

330px-Pocari_sweat_500ml.jpg

From the well written wiki page:

"The reference to sweat in the name of the beverage tends to have a certain off-putting or humorous connotation for native English speakers. However, the name was chosen by the manufacturers originally for the purpose of marketing the product as a sports drink in Japan,[2] where people generally do not mentally translate names appearing in English and are therefore not bothered by the connotation. "
Quote:
If your facts are correct, I don't appreciate or understand why that's "stylish or cool". If you're selling a product to a different country, label the device properly. Other countries can do it.
It wasn't for another country. It was for Japan market. I said this already. If you skip over the information provided then you continue to draw the wrong conclusions.
Quote:
I could understand if it were products in the 70's or 80's sold by Soundesign or Goldstar, I could chuckle (or find it very Funai). But from Sony?
Yes, Sony. The company I worked for in late 1980s and 1990s. The way Sony products are packaged and labeled in Japan for *Japanese consumers* is full of stuff like this. You can't sit here with American sensibility and assumptions and judge this aspect of Japanese culture.
Quote:
Talk about lost in translation. rolleyes.gif
No kidding. You are not even following my responses let alone appreciate the point I am making. Have you watched the movie?

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post #27 of 36 Old 03-01-2014, 09:08 AM
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No... but thank you for the explanation (although I loved the book and Miniseries of Shogun). I was speaking about American consumers.
Anyway, let's move on. Sorry if I offended anyone of Japanese heritage or those that are frequent travelers to Japan or movie buffs.

Okay then! Back to dual-optical fiber S/PDIF for consumer products.
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post #28 of 36 Old 03-01-2014, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

One word: Outsourcing.

Like, the whole project not just the assembly.
Not those machines. This was still the golden years of Japanese audio design/manufacturing. We are talking 1980s. The CDP-R10/DAS-R10 retailed for something like $18,000! They only made a couple of hundred of them for Japanese market. They made a lot more of the CDP-R1/DAC-R1 combo but still very low volume and all designed and manufactured in-house.

I was responding to the other quotes from post #20.
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post #29 of 36 Old 03-01-2014, 10:50 AM
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Sorry... I just had a thought.

If I were looking for authentic Japanese food in the US, I wouldn't consider a restaurant that advertised "Sooshe"biggrin.gif
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post #30 of 36 Old 03-01-2014, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post


I miss 1970s and 1980s HiFi days. We didn't have the emphasis we have today on the cheapest junk that sells. I mean look at the guts of DAS-R10:

20080316_afbe7652b32d2e701522jSec52.jpg

See those hybrid Sony modules. Massive power supply. Remember, this is just a DAC, not an amplifier.

Anyway no, outsourcing is the name of the game today, not then. The high-end audio market is still where you find that kind of craftsmanship and in-house design and manufacturing.

BTW I don't know if those are custom modules or engraved tin roofs over cheap components! ;-)

I checked the Sony audio components out and found that they list priced for about 2 million yen each. I don't know if the exchange rate was 100 or 140 in those days but we're talking $15-20K each. Allegedly about 200 each were made.

What a waste! Obviously for show not added go as Sony's standard consumer product of the day fully exploited everything audible that 16 bits and 44,100 Hz sampling could do.

Two words: Anti Engineering

But as artistic sculpture? Very limited market. I wonder what their estimated auction value would be appraised at on Antiques Roadshow, Pawnstars, or American Pickers. ;-)
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