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REVIEW INCL. Just got monoprice speaker wire in.....why do you guys reccomend this so much?

32K views 371 replies 56 participants last post by  CharlesJ 
#1 ·

so I posted a thread about building a cheap system here:

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1519352/threw-together-this-cheapo-system-what-do-you-guys-think

 

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upon heavy recommendation from the forum, and nearly half of the forum viewing that monoprice is the best audio cable on the market for the best price.

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1518761/whats-your-favorite-cable-manufacturer-poll

 

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with that said, I took the plunge and ordered some of it. and I went to radio shack to buy AUVIO to decided what I wanted to run.

 

first impressions of mono-price cable. along with a comparison to what is available to me locally.

 

1: dirty, when I opened the box, the spool looked used, beaten to hell and wrapped in what looked to be used/recycled sandwhich wrap.

it's not a big deal, so I took the cable off of the melting card board spool and discarded it. smelled like cheap china product you get on ebay, which nobody tells newbies for some reason.

 

I ordered 50 feet no logo, I got 50 feet no logo so that's a plus. radioshack's 25 foot spool only had about 20 feet in it.

 

2: it's thinner, and the strands are wrapped in a sloppier manner than the AUVIO cable. Radioshacks cable looks good, looks expensive, looks quality like what you would expect a "high end" speaker system to use.  Mono-price stuff SHOULD BE SLEEVED/COVERED/BOOTED in my opinion

 

3: it's closer to radio-shack's 14 gauge cable than the 12 gauge, monoprice claims that the jacketing is thicker on the radioshack stuff hence the thickness difference, not true, I striped the jacketing off to get a banana plug on it, and there is more copper on the radio shack AUVIO 12 gauge.

 

jacketing quality is poor, takes 1-4 strands when you strip it no matter how great your stripper is. auvio cable is easier to strip, strips kind of like Monster cable i had in my boat/car 10 years ago, or like the great speaker cable that pioneer gave us on my dad's 90's 5.1 DD theater system. 

 

the fittings from monoprice are harder to use than the banana plugs I picked up at radio-shack as well (however there is a $15 price difference PER SET, so pick your poison there, I just dealt with the so-so plugs at the speakers and sub, but I sprung for the higher end plugs at the amp end due to it being the expensive part of the system)

 

ending notes: I would NOT recommend this cable for someone who will have speakers in a visible location. but If it is used in a manner where you can see very little of it, or if you plan on sleeving it, it works fine.

 

monoprice 12 gauge cable is low end, cheap cable made thicker, if you take anything from this review, buyer beware, this brand is hyped because ......i don't know................it looks nearly identical to the low end RCA brand speaker wire sold at Walmart, just about 3 times as thick.

 

 

 



 



 



 

 
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#177 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by acras13  /t/1520500/review-incl-just-got-mon...guys-reccomend-this-so-much/150#post_24466651


Are you saying that skin effect does come into play on the audio side , even if it is not audible ? My understanding is that it is caused by eddy currents caused by the alternating magnetic fields in an AC system and not present in DC power delivery . Am I missing something critical in my thinking in regard to sound transmission as I am looking at this purely as a power transmission theory ?
Here is a nice table showing the wire gauges and the highest frequency that still penetrates the entire conductor: http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm


As you see there, the limit for 12 gauge is only 4.1 Khz (skin depth is about 1.2 mm). The question then becomes how much energy there is in music/movie soundtrack > 4.1 Khz. Fortunately most of the time it is a fraction of the ampicity of 12 gauge wire.
 
#179 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by acras13  /t/1520500/review-incl-just-got-mon...guys-reccomend-this-so-much/150#post_24466651


Thanks for all the great information and cause to do further research guys.


Arnyk , thank you for going way over my head with the amount of detail in several of your posts , I look forward to making sense of it all .

you said :
Quote:
Originally Posted by arny 

Skin effect is very weak at audio frequencies and the relatively small wires we use with speakers, even 12 gauge.


Furthermore at audio frequencies skin effect actually penetrates the wire to a fair depth. The reason that skin effect is weak with small wires (e.g. 12 gauge and up) is that that skin effect penetrates the whole wire. So it doesn't involve just the very outer surface of the wire.
Are you saying that skin effect does come into play on the audio side , even if it is not audible?

Yes, like so many other things we can measure the effects of skin effect even when its effects are so subtle that they are not audible.
Quote:
My understanding is that it is caused by eddy currents caused by the alternating magnetic fields in an AC system and not present in DC power delivery . Am I missing something critical in my thinking in regard to sound transmission as I am looking at this purely as a power transmission theory ?

As a rule audio signals follow the same rules as electrical power, adjusted for the differences in frequency, current, and voltage. EE classes teach only one set of rules, and how to apply them to different situations.
Quote:
I should have been more clear about my comment on crimp connections . I was thinking about DIY at home crimps for wire terminations. I agree that some crimp type connections can be pressure welded , but strictly from an "air tight" point of view , virtually no DIY'er will get close to that , especially if they have the OP's monoprice wire , a crimp connector that is slightly oversized because of poor quality control ,and a harbor freight crimping tool.

There are quite a few different options at Harbor Freight:


This one doesn't crimp very well:




There is some hope for this one that ratchets:




And even more hope for this hydraulic one if you have big enough cable to exploit it:




Then we get into the kind of 5 figure hardware one expects to see in a cable production specialist's shop:




And this shows the dies for power crimpers:




A really good crimper applies literally tons of force to the crimp. The hydraulic crimper shown above applies more than 10 tons of force.
 
#180 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk  /t/1520500/review-incl-just-got-mon...guys-reccomend-this-so-much/150#post_24467330


There is some hope for this one that ratchets.
And a lot more hope for this one:





Now combine that with Ancor's adhesive lined, heatshrink connectors and you have a weather sealed connection:




This is all I use in marine environment. These Ancor parts are much more expensive than the stuff in auto parts store. But when your life depends on it, you don't want to do anything less. Where I live, you get hypothermia if you fall in the water in less than half hour even in summer! You want that boat running as best as you can.
 
#181 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by SAM64  /t/1520500/review-incl-just-got-mon...guys-reccomend-this-so-much/150#post_24467191


...probably because it's all been covered in countless other threads on conductors.
He is asking why, if what you say is true, folks keep reading and posting in this thread. It is like saying you hate a restaurant's food but go there everyday for lunch
. Surely then it is for another reason
.
Quote:
It's like a mechanical engineering forum with countless threads on the invention of the wheel.
Not from my point of view. I don't recall any comparison of monoprice speaker cable to other brands much less the data that is to come characterizing them. But if you have seen it, let's have the link so that I don't bother with the rest of the project.
 
#183 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by SAM64  /t/1520500/review-incl-just-got-mon...guys-reccomend-this-so-much/180#post_24468024


Not from my point of view
You are here posting and reading a thread that you say is repetitive. No?
Quote:
Maybe you should re read the first post in this thread....you know, the one where monoprice is compared to other brands?
And his notion was challenged. Hence the work and expense I am going through to add some data to it.


There is a serious problem that we are addressing here: blind recommendation for a brand and products that people have not in many instances owned, or have done any testing or comparison. Or know enough technically to perform the same. It is the poster child for many such topics. Let's see if the data agrees with that assumption. I have read a lot of these "buy monoprice" threads and none have the data that we have and will have on this topic.


From my vantage point, folks are worried that some data might surface to counter their blind recommendations. Why else would they read and keep posting like you did?
 
#185 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm  /t/1520500/review-incl-just-got-mon...guys-reccomend-this-so-much/150#post_24464523

Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW  /t/1520500/review-incl-just-got-mon...guys-reccomend-this-so-much/150#post_24463433


And the reason it doesn't matter is that electrical current travels at about the speed of light. That means it could circle the planet 4 times in a second. Not too many human ears would notice a difference in the arrival of sound through a 6 foot wire vs a 6 mile wire or a 600 mile wire.
I know you are being facetious
. But your example of 600 mile is audible. So is 60 if my math is right. Electricity propagates slower than light but even using speed of light, 600 miles results in 3.2 milliseconds of delay in one channel. You can test your ear at this link and see how sensitive you are to interchannel delay: http://auditoryneuroscience.com/topics/time-intensity-trading . Likely depending on level, you will hear a delay of just 0.22 msec. That means 60 miles worth of delay is also audible. And depending on the wire characteristics and true propagation of delay of sound, it would be audible at shorter lengths than that.


The accuracy of our hearing system is high here because it is used to locate sounds based on delay caused between one ear being closer to the source of sound than the other. If you do this math, it comes out to something like 0.4 msec. So not surprising that 0.22 msec worth of delay is also audible.


Bet you didn't think you were going to learn this before coming to this thread.

Amir, I'll bear the above in mind the next time I build an audio system in a room dimensioned in 100's of miles. ;-)


Is that a problem in your neighborhood?


I can probably figure out how to have a 50 foot speaker cable in my real, actual (not imaginary) listening room.


Letsee 50/(186,000 * 5280) = 5.0912349299446073639622026718801 E-08 seconds = 0.051 microseconds.


IOW in normal listening rooms, speaker cable length doesn't matter.
 
#186 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm  /t/1520500/review-incl-just-got-mon...guys-reccomend-this-so-much/150#post_24468003

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk  /t/1520500/review-incl-just-got-mon...guys-reccomend-this-so-much/150#post_24467330


There is some hope for this one that ratchets.
And a lot more hope for this one:





Now combine that with Ancor's adhesive lined, heatshrink connectors and you have a weather sealed connection:




This is all I use in marine environment. These Ancor parts are much more expensive than the stuff in auto parts store. But when your life depends on it, you don't want to do anything less. Where I live, you get hypothermia if you fall in the water in less than half hour even in summer! You want that boat running as best as you can.

So Amir, you're of the opinion that your life doesn't depend on any of the parts in your car?


The current scandal over GM's ignition switch recall might be instructive - 13 deaths by means of a bad electrical connection with no boats in sight!
 
#187 ·
Included in my package from Monoprice today was.....TaDa!, a 50 ft. spool of 12AWG oxygen free copper 2 conductor speaker wire.




I don't encounter any issues. It is UL listed. It is more than heavy enough for a couple of 12 foot lengths of speaker wire. It has a blue line printed on one conductor to help keep them from getting confused. It doesn't look any better or worse than similar wire one would buy anywhere else. The only difference I can see is that it only cost $15.13. It might be thinner than some. Hard to say. Doesn't matter to me. Time to go stripping and connecting.
 
#188 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk  /t/1520500/review-incl-just-got-mon...guys-reccomend-this-so-much/180#post_24468249


So Amir, you're of the opinion that your life doesn't depend on any of the parts in your car?
No I am not of that opinion. The risks however in a boat are way, way higher than cars. Most boats are built by tiny companies with many flaws. I bought a new 32 foot boat once and I made a list of safety items that I fixed on it. It went for three pages. I gave that to the president of the company and he was horrified. He doubled my warranty and thanked me for all the fixes. At boat shows, no matter what brand of boat, I can find safety faults in one look behind the panels or in the engine compartment. My current boat being the exception. There is just no oversight in recreational boat building other than some basics by the coast guard. Folks just look at how pretty the boat is and sign on the dotted line.


I had my family in the 32 foot boat once and while we were fishing with my son at the helm, it completely lost its steering. You could turn the wheel all you wanted and it did nothing. I was among a dozen smaller boats fishing and had real chance of hurting them by running over them. I jumped into the engine compartment and wouldn't you know, a big wave comes and a ton of sea water hits the hot engine. Here I am in this engine room with my face a few inches from the hot and steaming engine, being showered with sea water and rocking left and right, trying to figure out why the steering had failed. You know what the problem was? A tiny set screw that had loosened itself due to vibration and lack of locktight to keep it from doing so. This tiny screw jeopardized my family's life and that of others. I have not had any experiences like this in cars.
 
#189 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk  /t/1520500/review-incl-just-got-mon...guys-reccomend-this-so-much/150#post_24467330



There is some hope for this one that ratchets:


That's what I use except mine isn't from Harbor Freight. It's a Pallidin and cost about $100 with dies. You also need good connectors. I like 3M brand. I have tried some no-name brands from a surplus store and they pull off even when crimped with this good crimper.
 
#190 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW  /t/1520500/review-incl-just-got-mon...guys-reccomend-this-so-much/180#post_24468357


It might be thinner than some. Hard to say. Doesn't matter to me.
Sure cannot tell from the label. 12 AWG implies 3.3mm cross-sectional diameter. 3.0 mm sq cross-sectional diameter listed on the label. 87 strands of .2mm diameter wire give a cross-sectional diameter of 3.14 mm sq. Close maybe? But at the lengths you are using, it won't make a difference. It is nice that the spool has a UL hologram. I wonder if the Chinese are forging those yet. FWIW monoprice has had problems with network cable with forged UL listings that did not have the required flame retardant chemicals in the sheath.
 
#192 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colm  /t/1520500/review-incl-just-got-mon...guys-reccomend-this-so-much/180#post_24468807


Sure cannot tell from the label. 12 AWG implies 3.3mm cross-sectional diameter. 3.0 mm sq cross-sectional diameter listed on the label. 87 strands of .2mm diameter wire give a cross-sectional diameter of 3.14 mm sq. Close maybe? But at the lengths you are using, it won't make a difference. It is nice that the spool has a UL hologram. I wonder if the Chinese are forging those yet?
They forge them left and right. Same with CE mark. See the video of the Apple chargers I post earlier.
 
#196 ·
Good point. This thread went off in many different directions. While there is a lot of info here, we must learn to stick to the main topic.


Meant to quote Ratman. Having trouble learning my new I Phone.
 
#197 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by SAM64  /t/1520500/review-incl-just-got-mon...guys-reccomend-this-so-much/150#post_24463316


it doesn't matter...much like the majority of this thread.


There is so much technology that could be discussed in these fora, but it always comes down to pages and pages of useless discussion about conductors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAM64  /t/1520500/review-incl-just-got-mon...guys-reccomend-this-so-much/150#post_24467191


...probably because it's all been covered in countless other threads on conductors.


It's like a mechanical engineering forum with countless threads on the invention of the wheel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAM64  /t/1520500/review-incl-just-got-mon...guys-reccomend-this-so-much/180#post_24468110


Here's some similar data. Round wheels are better than square wheels

SAM64 , got it , you don't want any discussion of any topic that has ever been covered before . I'm sorry I saw an active topic running and asked a few questions of people who seemed to have some knowledge they were willing to share . Thanks for the insight on the wheels though , I didn't believe Mythbusters when they tested square wheels ( oh no , the square wheel topic has already been covered!)

Maybe I'm crazy , but when I come across a topic that I have no interest in , I just move on , maybe I should use your technique to be more efficient and valuable to the community. Happy to give you another reason to post in this pointless thread .
 
#199 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glimmie  /t/1520500/review-incl-just-got-mon...guys-reccomend-this-so-much/180#post_24469177


Did the Sun rise this morning? Same answer!
Really doesn't matter that much if the UL stickers are forged or not , U.L. listing isn't what it used to be , seems like as long as you pay your fee , you get your sticker

Quote:
Originally Posted by SAM64  /t/1520500/review-incl-just-got-mon...guys-reccomend-this-so-much/180#post_24470932


You seem to think I was only addressing you, you're not that special, get over it.
I didn't say or insinuate you were only talking to me , and the second part of your comment , ironic.
 
#201 ·
Because you were directly talking to me in the quoted text. You are showing that I have a better grasp on the definition then you do . I would link to the definition for you , but I know how you hate to see anything that has already been posted .

To stop being rude to others in this thread , I will refrain from any more dialog on this topic in the thread . I am sorry to all and thanks to those who have informed and contributed .
 
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