Real as opposed to imaginary differences - Page 2 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #31 of 38 Old 04-15-2014, 10:59 AM - Thread Starter
 
Heinrich S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 974
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnarus View Post

How so? If what set those amps apart wasn't clipping or FR differences, what was it, Heinrich?

I never tested the amps and I wasn't there, so asking me to explain the sound quality differences is a little strange. Clearly something sounded different, and if there was a frequency imbalance surely the experimenters would have documented that. Did you see anything in the test to suggest a frequency imbalance large enough to result in audible differences? Perhaps you should claim the results were wrong because they contradict your preconceived notions about amplifiers. That's the easy way out, isn't it?
Heinrich S is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 38 Old 04-15-2014, 11:06 AM
FMW
AVS Special Member
 
FMW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,565
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 135 Post(s)
Liked: 643
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heinrich S View Post

Okay, but you appear to be cherry picking when the argument isn't going your way. So the article is old, so what. So are most published DBT reports. You guys all love to quote decades old DBT reports when it suits you. But when the results contradict your beliefs, you run around and try to wriggle your way out of the argument. It's despicable.

You want some newer bias controlled tests? Then shut up and conduct some. Calling my post despicable doesn't move me at all. Sorry. I write what I write from personal experience. You criticize it from a position of no experience.
FMW is offline  
post #33 of 38 Old 04-15-2014, 11:10 AM
AVS Special Member
 
David James's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Longmont, CO
Posts: 1,917
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heinrich S View Post

Okay, but you appear to be cherry picking when the argument isn't going your way. So the article is old, so what. So are most published DBT reports. You guys all love to quote decades old DBT reports when it suits you. But when the results contradict your beliefs, you run around and try to wriggle your way out of the argument. It's despicable.

Dispicable LOL

It was explained to you why the old amplifier comparison was suspect. Are you aware of changes in the DBT protocols?
David James is offline  
post #34 of 38 Old 04-15-2014, 11:14 AM
AVS Special Member
 
David James's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Longmont, CO
Posts: 1,917
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heinrich S View Post

I never tested the amps and I wasn't there, so asking me to explain the sound quality differences is a little strange. Clearly something sounded different, and if there was a frequency imbalance surely the experimenters would have documented that. Did you see anything in the test to suggest a frequency imbalance large enough to result in audible differences? Perhaps you should claim the results were wrong because they contradict your preconceived notions about amplifiers. That's the easy way out, isn't it?
Perhaps you should learn about logical fallacies.
David James is offline  
post #35 of 38 Old 04-15-2014, 11:19 AM
AVS Special Member
 
mcnarus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,017
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked: 270
Quote:
I never tested the amps and I wasn't there, so asking me to explain the sound quality differences is a little strange.
But you read the article, right? So what was the authors' explanation for the differences they heard?
Quote:
Clearly something sounded different, and if there was a frequency imbalance surely the experimenters would have documented that.
Did they document that there wasn't?
Quote:
Did you see anything in the test to suggest a frequency imbalance large enough to result in audible differences?
I haven't read the whole article. You did. Why don't you answer your own question? What was the reason for the difference?
Quote:
Perhaps you should claim the results were wrong because they contradict your preconceived notions about amplifiers.
My "preconceived notions" are in fact supported by peer-reviewed science texts. Please explain how the results of that test contradict them.

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

mcnarus is offline  
post #36 of 38 Old 04-15-2014, 11:24 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
amirm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Washington State
Posts: 17,807
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 531 Post(s)
Liked: 339
Quote:
Originally Posted by David James View Post

Dispicable LOL

It was explained to you why the old amplifier comparison was suspect. Are you aware of changes in the DBT protocols?
What changes?

Amir
Founder, Madrona Digital
"Insist on Quality Engineering"

amirm is offline  
post #37 of 38 Old 04-15-2014, 11:26 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Frank Derks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Region A,B,C
Posts: 1,889
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 96 Post(s)
Liked: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heinrich S View Post

I never tested the amps and I wasn't there, so asking me to explain the sound quality differences is a little strange. Clearly something sounded different, and if there was a frequency imbalance surely the experimenters would have documented that. Did you see anything in the test to suggest a frequency imbalance large enough to result in audible differences? Perhaps you should claim the results were wrong because they contradict your preconceived notions about amplifiers. That's the easy way out, isn't it?

If you had read the article instead of just latching onto the 'headline' you could see that amps where driven into occasional clipping into a very low efficiency electrostatic speaker with a capacitive load impedance.
Frank Derks is offline  
post #38 of 38 Old 04-15-2014, 11:28 AM
AVS Special Member
 
David James's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Longmont, CO
Posts: 1,917
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

What changes?
Sorry if I wasn't clear. I was asking if he was aware of changes in the DBT protocol as there have been with amplifiers thereby making his analogy valid.
David James is offline  
Reply Audio theory, Setup and Chat

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off