Does it matter what type of rca cable for multi channel listening? - AVS Forum
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Old 04-25-2014, 10:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Will any one work like the cheap kind that come with dvd players the red, white & yellow cables?

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Old 04-25-2014, 10:51 AM
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Yes. (As long as you're referring to the analog multichannel outputs).
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Old 04-25-2014, 10:57 AM
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Theoretically, the Yellow cable should have a different impedance (75 ohm) than the Red/White (52 ohm), but I very much doubt that any cheap cable would be different. Or, for that matter, the correct impedance at all.

So you should be able to use 2 of the cheap RWY cables, but replacing them with a good set of 3 RW audio cables (something costing at least $10) would be a good investment. But I wouldn't spend much more than $25 per pair (likely no more audio benefit). The cheapies that are thrown in the box are notoriously poor.

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Old 04-25-2014, 11:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Sargent View Post

Theoretically, the Yellow cable should have a different impedance (75 ohm) than the Red/White (52 ohm), but I very much doubt that any cheap cable would be different. Or, for that matter, the correct impedance at all.

So you should be able to use 2 of the cheap RWY cables, but replacing them with a good set of 3 RW audio cables (something costing at least $10) would be a good investment. But I wouldn't spend much more than $25 per pair (likely no more audio benefit). The cheapies that are thrown in the box are notoriously poor.

Mike

Would the red, green, blue cables work or are those for video only?

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Old 04-25-2014, 11:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

Yes. (As long as you're referring to the analog multichannel outputs).

Yes, it's for a pioneer DV-578A that has multi channel output.

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Old 04-25-2014, 11:07 AM
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There is no "correct" impedance for line level audio. It doesn't operate as a transmission line. You don't even need coax. 75 ohm video cables are just fine for audio. Use what you have.
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Old 04-25-2014, 11:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colm View Post

There is no "correct" impedance for line level audio. It doesn't operate as a transmission line. You don't even need coax. 75 ohm video cables are just fine for audio.

Thanks, because I have plenty of those lying around.

Will those be better than the cheap rca red, white, & yellow or no difference at all?

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Old 04-25-2014, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colm View Post

There is no "correct" impedance for line level audio. It doesn't operate as a transmission line. You don't even need coax. 75 ohm video cables are just fine for audio. Use what you have.

There is and it used to be 600 Ohm.

It's less relevant today as output stages can have very low output impedance by default.
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Old 04-25-2014, 11:11 AM
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Probably better than the cheapies, but don't be surprised if you can't hear a difference.

Mike
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Old 04-25-2014, 12:28 PM
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Use any RCA cables you have. Impedance is not an issue for audio.
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Old 04-25-2014, 08:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Is multi channel better than optical with sacd, dvd-a?

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Old 04-25-2014, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Derks View Post

There is and it used to be 600 Ohm.
Geez, make up your mind, 52 ohms or 600 ohms? We are not talking about long telephone lines (and they aren't even 600 ohms anymore).
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It's less relevant today as output stages can have very low output impedance by default.
Characteristic impedance of the line is totally irrelevant for the OP's purposes. It isn't functioning as a transmission line at the lengths he is concerned with.
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Old 04-25-2014, 10:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdogroeder View Post

Is multi channel better than optical with sacd, dvd-a?
Depends on the DACs and associated circuitry in the two devices. Try both and see which seems better to you.
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Old 04-26-2014, 06:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Sargent View Post

Theoretically, the Yellow cable should have a different impedance (75 ohm) than the Red/White (52 ohm), but I very much doubt that any cheap cable would be different. Or, for that matter, the correct impedance at all.

Audio cables in just about any home audio system are far too short for the usual range of characteristic impedances to be an issue.

The most important performance parameter for cables in a home system is the simple ability to carry the signal without excessive loss. This is easily met by even the cheapest cable that provides separation between signal and ground and continuity for a signal.
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Old 04-26-2014, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdogroeder View Post

Is multi channel better than optical with sacd, dvd-a?

If by multichannel you mean analog multichannel, then no.

The best cable for multichannel, if you have appropriate source and receiving components, is HDMI. If you have a PC there are fairly inexpensive HDMI video cards and HDMI capture cards and with 8 discrete high-datarate audio signals, it is hard to beat.

Toslink optical is very good because it breaks potential ground loops but does not handle some of the advanced formats that HDMI does handle.

Coax can be preferable to Toslink if you need to transmit a digital signal further than 50 feet or so, which is a sort of practical limit for simple implementations of toslink.
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Old 04-26-2014, 09:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

If by multichannel you mean analog multichannel, then no.

The best cable for multichannel, if you have appropriate source and receiving components, is HDMI. If you have a PC there are fairly inexpensive HDMI video cards and HDMI capture cards and with 8 discrete high-datarate audio signals, it is hard to beat.

Toslink optical is very good because it breaks potential ground loops but does not handle some of the advanced formats that HDMI does handle.

Coax can be preferable to Toslink if you need to transmit a digital signal further than 50 feet or so, which is a sort of practical limit for simple implementations of toslink.

Yes I was asking about analog multichannel. I was under the impression multichannel is better. This is for an older pioneer dvd player that plays sacd's & dvd-a's that only has optical, coaxial, & 5.1 analog multichannel for audio out options.

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Old 04-26-2014, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdogroeder View Post

Yes I was asking about analog multichannel. I was under the impression multichannel is better. This is for an older pioneer dvd player that plays sacd's & dvd-a's that only has optical, coaxial, & 5.1 analog multichannel for audio out options.

Calling the analog outputs multichannel confuses the issue. Digital transfers multichannel, too, so the multichannel-ness is not a distinguishing factor.

Over spdif, whether optical or coax, the system cannot transfer, AIUI, more than two channels of uncompressed sound and it cannot transfer multichannel lossless formats . So if you transfer multichannel sound over optical or coax digital connections what gets sent is plain old lossy Dolby or dts. AIUI, DVDs tend to use lower bit rate dd and dts on the disc and there seems to be a reasonable degree of agreement you can at least sometimes hear the difference between those lossy encoded soundtracks and either PCM or lossless.

OTOH, apparently blu rays typically use the highest bit rate lossy dd and dts and there is some indication these are at least almost always sonically indistinguishable from the lossless version. So if you are playing a BD without a HDMI connection you likely could not distinguish between using the player to decode then convert the sound versus the receiver because of the higher bit rate lossy encoding. But to KNOW you are hearing the lossless version you have the convert in the player, if you don't have an hdmi connection.

With dvds, the player sees the exact same track (all the digital bits are the same) as would the receiver if it were connected via optical or coax digital. There should be zero difference in that case, except the receiver likely cannot apply crossovers or any other digital processing to sound transferred via the analog outputs of the player.
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Old 04-26-2014, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHAz View Post

Calling the analog outputs multichannel confuses the issue.
Why? That's what they are. wink.gif
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Old 04-26-2014, 12:47 PM
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Because the spdif inputs are multichannel too.

Maybe I will start calling rgb inputs the "video inputs" because that will be perfectly clear wink.gif
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Old 04-26-2014, 01:35 PM - Thread Starter
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JHaz are you saying there won't be much if any audible difference using multichannel output?

Just to be clear the player is a dvd player not a bluray player, it is a Pioneer dv-758A, there is no hdmi out which will be used for 2 channel audio only.

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Old 04-26-2014, 02:02 PM
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All the multichannel outputs should sound the same. Again, digital outputs are multichannel too. The difference between digital and analog multichannel outputs is the analog outputs are analog and the digital ones are digital. As written your question is utter nonsense.
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Old 04-26-2014, 02:07 PM
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Nope.
S/PDIF does not carry SACD or DVD-A multichannel audio.
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Old 04-26-2014, 11:20 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Derks View Post


There is and it used to be 600 Ohm.

It's less relevant today as output stages can have very low output impedance by default.

600 Ohm?  If you mean the 600 ohm source/termination 1mW/0dBm referenced system, not for decades.  Pro audio gave up power-based distribution, and moved to voltage distribution nearly completely over 30 years ago.  Voltage distribution means low Z source, high Z termination...inputs essentially are concerned with voltage only.  Power distribution was where the source Z and load Z match resulting in maximum power transfer, which is what the old 600 Ohm system was, and was completely unnecessary in pro audio outside of Telco.  

 

That idea never made it into consumer products anyway.  It became very obvious that in terms of cable drive you need relatively low Z sources, even in consumer gear.

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Old 04-26-2014, 11:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

Nope.
S/PDIF does not carry SACD or DVD-A multichannel audio.
Of course the op's DVD player is very unlikely to play SACD or DVD-a. And the question gave no indication that those formats were in play. So the point while accurate is irrelevant.
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Old 04-27-2014, 05:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHAz View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

Nope.
S/PDIF does not carry SACD or DVD-A multichannel audio.
Of course the op's DVD player is very unlikely to play SACD or DVD-a. And the question gave no indication that those formats were in play. So the point while accurate is irrelevant.
It does play SACD and DVD-A, which the OP specifically mentioned:
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdogroeder View Post


Yes I was asking about analog multichannel. I was under the impression multichannel is better. This is for an older pioneer dvd player that plays sacd's & dvd-a's that only has optical, coaxial, & 5.1 analog multichannel for audio out options.
Bottom line: if the OP is playing either of those formats, the distinction between analog and S/PDIF multichannel matters as the former can be used for high res and the latter cannot. Conversely, when playing DVDs, S/PDIF is likely better because most receivers can apply room correction and other digital processing to those inputs, but not to multichannel analog.
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Old 04-27-2014, 06:14 AM
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Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

... the distinction between analog and S/PDIF multichannel matters as the former can be used for high res and the latter cannot.
That is what I intended to convey. (poorly perhaps)

Also... are there hybrid SACD/DVD-A that provide a "standard" DD/DTS 5.1 (bitstream)? I thought the optional format was PCM stereo only with hybrids.
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Old 04-27-2014, 06:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHAz View Post

Of course the op's DVD player is very unlikely to play SACD or DVD-a.

Per Pioneer's website: The DVD-578A-S is a high-performance movie and music machine. In addition to DVD movies, the slim DV-578A-S plays multi-channel, high-resolution DVD-Audio and SACD discs, plus all of your recordings on DVD-R/RW*, CD-R/RW**, MP3, and WMA.

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Old 04-27-2014, 07:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

Bottom line: if the OP is playing either of those formats, the distinction between analog and S/PDIF multichannel matters as the former can be used for high res and the latter cannot. Conversely, when playing DVDs, S/PDIF is likely better because most receivers can apply room correction and other digital processing to those inputs, but not to multichannel analog.
Thanks for the input as that was my understanding after from some reading but wasn't clear on it. This dvd player is only going to be used for sacd & dvd-a, I use bluray player for all movies.

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Old 04-27-2014, 07:08 AM
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From the manual of the Pioneer:
Quote:
Connecting the multichannel analog
outputs


If your AV receiver has 5.1 channel analog
inputs, we recommend connecting this player
to it using the multichannel analog outputs.
Doing this will ensure that you can enjoy all
kinds of disc, including Dolby Digital and DTS
DVD-Video discs, as well as high sampling rate
and multichannel DVD-Audio and SACD discs.
Quote:
My AV receiver is definitely compatible with
96/88.2kHz Linear PCM audio, but it doesn’t
seem to work with this player. What’s
wrong?


For digital copy-protection purposes, some
96/88.2kHz DVD discs only output digital
audio downsampled to 48/44.1kHz. This is
not a malfunction.
To fully take advantage of the high
sampling rate audio, connect the analog
audio outputs to your amplifier/receiver.

Why can’t I hear SACD audio through the
digital outputs?


SACD audio is only available through the
analog outputs. This is not a malfunction.
Some DVD-Audio discs too only output
audio through the analog outputs.

Is it better to listen to DVD-Audio discs
through the analog outputs?


Some DVD-Audio discs do not output
anything through the digital outputs, and
multichannel discs are downmixed to
stereo for the digital output. In addition,
high sampling rate DVD-Audio discs
(higher than 96kHz) automatically
downsample audio output from the digital
outputs.
Using the multichannel analog audio
outputs for DVD-Audio have none of these
limitations.
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