DC to AC power inverter that could power a home theatre receiver or powered subwoofer? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 35 Old 04-27-2014, 08:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Kind of a noob when it comes to these things so be nice! I am looking to sell some audio equipment on craigslist and I was thinking about buying an inverter so I can meet people at public places instead of at home.
I was looking for something like this- http://www.ebay.com/itm/BESTEK-300W-Power-inverter-DC-to-AC-Adapter-car-charger-laptop-USB-power-supply-/110946525867?pt=US_Power_Inverters_&hash=item19d4eda2ab
Obviously this isn't enough power but can someone point out an inverter that would be powerful enough to handle a receiver/speakers and powered home theatre subwoofer?
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post #2 of 35 Old 04-27-2014, 08:53 AM
 
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Actually, that one might be all you need.  For the purpose of demonstrating that your gear works, you won't need full power, just need to get the gear running and show it works.  However, every truck stop has a selection of electronics that includes rather huge inverters.  You'll have no problem finding a 1000W unit for a reasonable price, and can take it with you.  I may have seen these things at stores like Farm & Fleet or Wal-mart too, just didn't make a mental note. 

 

BTW, big inverters don't connect to a lighter socket, they want a direct battery connection...just to complicate your life a bit.  They can blow the fuse in your lighter socket if you actually demand some power from them.  Lighter sockets max at under 300w (20A fuse, 14V = 280W). 

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post #3 of 35 Old 04-27-2014, 08:59 AM
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First of all, most inverters put out a modified square wave rather than a true sine wave, which will cause an unacceptable loud humming in any audio gear (and might damage it).

You would have to get a TRUE RMS SINE WAVE converter to do what you want, and those are quite expensive.

I spent $250 to get a rather small one to run a TV and sat receiver in my travel trailer. One the size you are talking about might cost a thousand dollars.

Secondly, you are talking about one that would put be rated for 1000 watts or more, which means it would probably draw at least 100 amperes from the 12 volt power source; maybe more.

It sounds very impractical to me. It is NOT going to just run off the single battery of your vehicle.

Large high-power audio amplifiers for automotive use have their own inverter/power supply built-in so they can run on 12 volts. That would be cheaper, I think.

You could get a small TRUE RMS inverter to run a CD player or whatever, and that would not be so expensive.

Any system you set up, though, will require several large car batteries or some golf cart batteries to supply enough current, and a generator to keep them charged.

Look at "theinverterstore.com". They have one 2000 watt pure sine wave converter for $649. It would draw 160 amperes at 12V for full output. that will take some huge cables.
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post #4 of 35 Old 04-27-2014, 09:15 AM - Thread Starter
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I'd rather not spend 100s on something I will only use for the summer. Also I'd only have these electronics running for a few minutes. I just want to show the buyer that it works.
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post #5 of 35 Old 04-27-2014, 09:18 AM
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You still would have to have a true sine wave converter, not a cheap one like in your link (the hum would be louder than the music with a cheap one).

It would cut the power requirement way down if you forget the subwoofer.

Then you could probably get by with one rated for 400-500 watts. The Inverter Store has a 600 watt one for $149.

It doesn't much matter if it is for 20 seconds or 10 minutes.

If it draws more current than the battery can put out easily, the battery voltage will drop so low that the inverter will shut down.

And you WILL have to wire it direct to a battery with heavy wire (#6 or larger); you can't just connect it to a power socket in a car.
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post #6 of 35 Old 04-27-2014, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

First of all, most inverters put out a modified square wave rather than a true sine wave, which will cause an unacceptable loud humming in any audio gear (and might damage it).
That's a load of bollocks. I regularly use a non sine wave inverter with my test equipment when I need to in remote locations and it neither (a) hums, nor (b) harms the gear, which BTW is a lot more expensive and is a lot more sensitive than most audio gear.
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post #7 of 35 Old 04-27-2014, 02:41 PM
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TGC, I would review your method of selling as it would strike me as dishonest. Maybe the gear you're demo-ing is hot, which is why you're giving the demo at a truck stop. It would make me reluctant to pay top dollar. I used to, and sometimes still do deal in vintage guitars and basses. I have my old rehearsal rig set up in my garage (worth almost nothing and I wouldn't care if it were stolen) and when potential customers make inquiries, I always tell them the instruments are stored in another location and I'll need to get them to demo. I then put them back in my car post demo and include in the conversation that I'll return them to storage before going to somewhere else (GFs for dinner etc). Never been ripped off yet.
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post #8 of 35 Old 04-27-2014, 03:40 PM
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Sounds like the old "White Van" scam. rolleyes.gif
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post #9 of 35 Old 04-27-2014, 03:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah I know some people will find it shady but I guess I'd prefer meeting at a public place because I've never felt comfortable with people coming to my home. I will be putting a LOT of electronics on CL this summer, which I'm worried will make someone think I have a bunch of electronics in my home and try to rob me if they meet at my house.
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post #10 of 35 Old 04-27-2014, 04:30 PM
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That's a great alibi.
Just check that before you sell your goods at a public place that you have the proper vendor permits to do so.

Isn't it easier to just have a garage/yard sale? If anyone asks... tell them you're selling (doing a favor) the stuff for "a friend" that lives in a one room apartment.tongue.gif
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post #11 of 35 Old 04-27-2014, 04:48 PM - Thread Starter
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post #12 of 35 Old 04-27-2014, 04:49 PM - Thread Starter
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post #13 of 35 Old 04-27-2014, 08:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post


That's a load of bollocks. I regularly use a non sine wave inverter with my test equipment when I need to in remote locations and it neither (a) hums, nor (b) harms the gear, which BTW is a lot more expensive and is a lot more sensitive than most audio gear.

+1.  Load-O-Bollocks.  You don't need a sine wave inverter to demo gear to show it's not DOA, and you don't need to play it to clipping to demo it.  I too have run precision test gear off non-sine-wave inverters.  Works just fine.

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post #14 of 35 Old 04-27-2014, 09:00 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGrumpyCat View Post

Yeah I know some people will find it shady but I guess I'd prefer meeting at a public place because I've never felt comfortable with people coming to my home. I will be putting a LOT of electronics on CL this summer, which I'm worried will make someone think I have a bunch of electronics in my home and try to rob me if they meet at my house.

Not shady at all.  Here's the deal with CL.  It's populated with scammers.  The honest seller has to do something to prove himself, but it's just plain stupid to invite an unknown CL buyer to your home where he can tour it for a later heist. I don't do much the CL, but when I do, I arrange to meet the buyer in a public parking lot...usually at a convenient police station.  That scares off the scammers, and keeps us both honest.  CL is the wildest place to sell or buy on the internet.  Every time I post something I get a dozen scam replies. 

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post #15 of 35 Old 04-28-2014, 06:44 AM
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If anyone is that concerned at CL, use an alternative method to advertise/sell.
Heck... rent a space at a Flea Market, Swap Meet or whatever your local area calls a designated public selling area.
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post #16 of 35 Old 04-28-2014, 08:46 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

If anyone is that concerned at CL, use an alternative method to advertise/sell.
Heck... rent a space at a Flea Market, Swap Meet or whatever your local area calls a designated public selling area.

Right.  That's just not practical if you only have a few items to sell.  EBay is also an option, and a bit more secure than CL because eBay does sort of get involved with resolution, payment and buyer qualification. Not completely scam-free, but what is?

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post #17 of 35 Old 04-28-2014, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

That's a load of bollocks. I regularly use a non sine wave inverter with my test equipment when I need to in remote locations and it neither (a) hums, nor (b) harms the gear, which BTW is a lot more expensive and is a lot more sensitive than most audio gear.
I had a modified 2 KW sine wave inverter on my last boat and it most definitely had difficulty powering some equipment. The kids Playstation for example would intermittently not power up. If we started it while on shore power it would then keep going when we disconnected and ran it from the inverter. But if we tried to power it from the inverter getting juice from the battery it would not power up.

I also used my Dell laptop for some of my onboard charting. Its power supply while running on the inverter would get so hot you could cook an egg on it! It survived that use but I wonder how long it would have done so.

As to your test instrument, it is liable to have a superb power supply. You can't compare your experience there with random consumer electronics gear with heaven knows power supply design.

I think his comments have some merit. I sure would not want to be responsible for telling OP it is Ok and have it not be.

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post #18 of 35 Old 04-28-2014, 09:29 AM
 
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amrim,

2kW sine wave on a boat. Yeah, a Craigslist sale is probably way outside of your world. He just needs to show it's not DOA for a few seconds. Literally, anything will be just fine.
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post #19 of 35 Old 04-28-2014, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gazoink View Post

amrim,

2kW sine wave on a boat. Yeah, a Craigslist sale is probably way outside of your world. He just needs to show it's not DOA for a few seconds. Literally, anything will be just fine.
If literally anything will work, why not tell OP you will refund his money if he buys a random inverter and does not work? You would not have to make good on that so the promise can be easily made. Yes?

My recommendation to OP is to buy a computer UPS *locally*. The UPS will have its own battery so that solves the problem of dealing with very high currents needed. By buying locally you can return it if it does not work. If it does work, then you can later use it to power your computer rather than have a throwaway inverter.

Look on the back of everything that you want to power and compute the total power needed. Multiply that by 1.3X and find a UPS that does the job.

As to me and Craigslist, we had a brutal crime involving them in our state. A guy was murdered by the people who came to buy his diamond ring: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_James_Sanders. So for sure I understand OP's motivation.

So no, I don't deal with CL directly. But my brother does and he has had pretty good luck finding real bargains. So when I need something from there, I ask him to find a reliable person.

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post #20 of 35 Old 04-28-2014, 10:29 AM - Thread Starter
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post #21 of 35 Old 04-28-2014, 11:04 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post


If literally anything will work, why not tell OP you will refund his money if he buys a random inverter and does not work? You would not have to make good on that so the promise can be easily made. Yes?

What a marvelously backhanded way to call  someone you've never met "dishonest".  If I were selling him the inverter, or anything else, he would have the option of return for full refund.  But don't believe anything I say, I'm "dishonest".  Geez. 

 

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Originally Posted by TheGrumpyCat View Post

So something like this then? How long would the battery last on a charge?

http://www.amazon.com/APC-BE750G-Saving-Battery-Back-UPS/dp/B000Z80ICM/ref=lp_764572_1_5?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1398702507&sr=1-5

That's fine, and like the expert said, you can use it for your computer when you're done.  You can also return things purchased via Amazon just as easily.  The run time chart is posted on that listing, just scroll down far enough.  Run time depends on load.  You only need a few minutes.

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post #22 of 35 Old 04-28-2014, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGrumpyCat View Post

So something like this then? How long would the battery last on a charge?

http://www.amazon.com/APC-BE750G-Saving-Battery-Back-UPS/dp/B000Z80ICM/ref=lp_764572_1_5?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1398702507&sr=1-5

A properly specified UPS will have a number for so many watts or volt-amps for so many minutes. That number can be used to calculate watt-minutes or volt-am-minutes and then the watt-minutes or VA minutes divided by the actual power drain in watts or volt-amps to give estimated minutes of life.

Unlike others I have no problems with a little 125 watt inverter that we use on road trips and while car camping to keep our little tech pieces charged and running. My car is a 2006 base model with just a 12v lighter socket, but I understand that some newer and/or more opulent models come with working AC outlets. I've even run small power tools with it. I also have a 10AH litium USB charger for use when the car has to be left behind.
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post #23 of 35 Old 04-28-2014, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

That's a great alibi.
Just check that before you sell your goods at a public place that you have the proper vendor permits to do so.

Lol, a permit for a five minute, one-time cash transaction in a parking lot. Right. rolleyes.gif

PS: I thumbed up your post, but didn't mean to. tongue.gif

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post #24 of 35 Old 04-28-2014, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gazoink View Post

+1.  Load-O-Bollocks.  You don't need a sine wave inverter to demo gear to show it's not DOA, and you don't need to play it to clipping to demo it.  I too have run precision test gear off non-sine-wave inverters.  Works just fine.

It's hit or miss. The square wave in it's self may not cause much of a problem but you need to consider a square wave means there is no RMS/peak difference. That could mean 170 volt AC output if the inverter manufacture did not do something to deal with it such as a stepped sinewave.

1) Switch mode power supplies, such as DVD and CD players, could care less about a 170v square wave. They will operate just fine.

2) Big power transformers like in a amplifier may buzz a bit and there could be some additional noise in the signal.

3) Small power transformer devices like fine preamps or DACS could be damaged by a 170v square wave with extended use.

Just a thought but what about a small Honda generator? And you can rent these things too. I have seen these used at ham fests to demo gear outside.

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post #25 of 35 Old 04-28-2014, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by CruelInventions View Post

Lol, a permit for a five minute, one-time cash transaction in a parking lot. Right. rolleyes.gif

Back in the old days... one-time transaction in a parking lot wasn't for audio equipment. smile.gif
Quote:
PS: I thumbed up your post, but didn't mean to. tongue.gif
That makes me sad. rolleyes.gif
You can ask to take it back.

If you're going to sell "stuff" that need to demo'ed... wherever... because you don't trust the clientele in CL............ Don't use CL and find and alternative!

Buy one of these to provide "demo AC power" and sell the "stuff" wherever you can . (Rather than potentially burning up the electrical system in your car).
http://www.amazon.com/Generac-5791-4-Stroke-Portable-Generator/dp/B002NKMG5M/ref=sr_1_15?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1398707235&sr=1-15
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post #26 of 35 Old 04-28-2014, 12:46 PM
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A close to $300 portable generator for what sounds like will only be a few to a handful of potential sales transactions? Not practical, as it would really eat into his bottom line.

You sound like you are one of those who would rather just be rid of your own unused or unwanted equipment, not really caring to wring out as much $$ return value as is practically possible (either because you don't have the time or you don't need to be thrifty about it). Which is perfectly fine. A lot of people are like that. But I suspect the OP wants to limit his selling expenses as much as humanly possible yet still provide potential buyers with some basic operational confirmation/assurance for the components they are considering for purchase.

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post #27 of 35 Old 04-28-2014, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGrumpyCat View Post

Yeah I know some people will find it shady but I guess I'd prefer meeting at a public place because I've never felt comfortable with people coming to my home. I will be putting a LOT of electronics on CL this summer, which I'm worried will make someone think I have a bunch of electronics in my home and try to rob me if they meet at my house.

Me either and my wife is even less comfortable having people come to the house. I was lucky as I already had one of those 2000W Honda inverter generators with a "simulated Sine wave output for sensitive electronics" which has been able to power up PCs, Audio equipment, and TVs which are the things I've sold using it.

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Not shady at all.  Here's the deal with CL.  It's populated with scammers.  The honest seller has to do something to prove himself, but it's just plain stupid to invite an unknown CL buyer to your home where he can tour it for a later heist. I don't do much the CL, but when I do, I arrange to meet the buyer in a public parking lot...usually at a convenient police station.  That scares off the scammers, and keeps us both honest.  CL is the wildest place to sell or buy on the internet.  Every time I post something I get a dozen scam replies. 

I agree - not shady at all. Like me you could just be protecting your home / family or the wishes of your significant other. I was building computers for a few years and sold about 50 of them - not one of them out of my home. Most were sold off of Craigslist to keep cost low and to prevent shipping hassles. I always offered a 14 day money back no-questions-asked and only had one person asked.

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If anyone is that concerned at CL, use an alternative method to advertise/sell.
Heck... rent a space at a Flea Market, Swap Meet or whatever your local area calls a designated public selling area.

When selling really high end equipment it is worth your while to pack it up and spend sometimes $100 on shipping, but when selling some old stuff in the closet that is heavy and doesn't have its original boxes CL is the way to go. I have a older 50lb Onkyo AVR and some Polk surround speakers that I want to get rid of - shipping them doesn't make sense even if I get less than they are worth so CL is the way to go. Selling other gear where I expect to sell for true value, I know I am going to have to sell on AudioGon or eBay and go through the hassle of shipping.
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post #28 of 35 Old 04-28-2014, 03:13 PM
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LOL... UNCLE!!!!
Sell it however it works for you. rolleyes.gif

I have a mess 'o stuff available. (Pioneer, Scott, Kenwood, Dynaco...) PM me if you're interested.
Not looking for profit, stalkers or robbers. Just a good home for those that appreciate nice gear. I trust you all. biggrin.gif
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post #29 of 35 Old 04-29-2014, 02:28 PM
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You know there is a designated area for selling goods on AVS, it's against forum rules to post about it in the general forum like this, Ratman.

In other words, before you attempt to sell your goods here, you should have checked, "that you have the proper vendor permits to do so".

For shame Ratman, for shame. rolleyes.gifbiggrin.gif

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post #30 of 35 Old 04-29-2014, 02:34 PM
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I didn't say it was for sale. I said I had stuff available. Not looking for profit, just a good home.
In other words, before busting my chops... read before posting. Shame! eek.gif
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