Originally Posted by arnyk
Quote:Originally Posted by RayDunzl
Vast overkill is not quality engineering, especially when other parts of the system are as vastly substandard as they are.
Goooooood morning Arny! No, the "o" letter is not broken on my keyboard. I am just excited to wake up again to another insightful post by Arny.
Arny, this is why you get the big bucks. I am totally unfamiliar with your characterization being that if "Quality Engineering."
Quality engineering in my book is looking at something as another engineer and admiring how well executed it is from design and manufacturing point of view.
Inverted, you want to avoid the "red faced syndrome." That is when another engineer points out mistakes in your design that are so bad that your face turns read.
You have seen many examples of this from me. Here it is again in the form of performance of this ~$1000 AVR:
This is an AVR which on its own decided to inject a ton more distortion into the output of the DAC whenever it wants. Any engineer worth his salary would have made this same measurement, noticed this and fixed it.
This is bad engineering. This AVR costs more than twice as much as your Denon AVR I imagine. You would expect for that extra $500 to not have problems like this, yes? It is not like this a $200 AVR where every corner could be cut and the answer would be, "what did you expect for $200?" This is serious amount of money.
Likewise this familiar measurement on how much a device filters incoming jitter:
The top line is all ~$1,000 AVRs. They perform no filtering and some even amplify it! This is not quality engineering.
Now, it is true that often quality comes from "high-end" manufacturers and said gear does cost more money. Here is a comparison of an AVR to my 14 year old Mark Levinson DAC:
I am confident if we found the specs for the DAC in above AVR, it would rival what the Mark Levinson is doing. But they stuck it in a box, wrapped it with their "design" and in the process, degraded the performance.
I know what you are going to say: "if I don't hear it, it can be that bad." Well, that is not an answer to quality engineering. Quality engineering says that you can stand next to your design while your peers review it and be proud. I don't know how you can be proud in this category of performance.
What is the old saying? "Buy cheap, buy again?" I still use that Mark Levinson DAC, day in, day out. I bought quality engineering and hence, didn't need to upgrade.
The car analogy would be to have a car door close with a clunk and not line up with the rest of the panels in the car frame. You can still drive the car to work just as well. But that is a sign of bad engineering when competing products can do it right.
We should not have any resentment against a better performing device if it costs more money. It is a reference for Quality Engineering. If you can afford to buy it and do so, you won't ever feel bad when people bring up this topic. Your device aces such performance aspects as does my Mark Levinson DAC.
Buy a cheap AVR with poor DAC performance as I am showing above and you are always on the defensive. You spend days, weeks, months and maybe even years fighting the notion on forums. Why not put that energy and resources toward buying a quality engineered product and be done with it? What is so wrong in believing in quality engineering?
And why should we defend less than quality engineering? Why would we be advocates of manufacturers instead of ourselves?
Now, if you can't afford or justify spending this kind of money on quality engineering, that is fine. No one is at all pressuring *you* to buy such equipment. The argument is you trying to tell the person who has bought quality engineering he shouldn't have. Well, that is your standard. It is not that person or mine. It is a personal choice to invest in quality engineering. It is no more wrong than you investing in less well-engineered product.
We argue because that doesn't sit well with us. We are competitive males and love to "prove" we are actually smarter than the other guy because we paid less. Well, you paid less, and you got less performance! Yes, it may be performance you don't care about but you did get less of it. Less of quality engineering.
Oh you got me philosophical first thing in the morning.
Thanks again Arny.