Debate Thread: Scott's Hi-res Audio Test - Page 98 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2911 of 2920 Old 08-02-2014, 02:08 PM
 
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What topic it changes all the time nobody was talking about tuning forks and beat freq B4 yesterday where you been ?
No telling what the topic(s) will be 2 morrow that's half the fun of it

I like the English copper whistle beat freq thing, fast Fourier transform (FFT) thing is interesting ,clever blokes aren't they?
I wonder if a coaches/teacher /traffic cop whistle does that (beat freq.) w/o the pipes anybody know? what about dog whistles ?

This is like the old PBS connections show hires music ,SACD,Red book CDR, keys,clicks ,DAC's ,vinyl phonograph records,tuning forks,ultrasonic s ,beat freq's, trigonometry ,English copper whistles, IM distortion,perceptional coding (or is it encoding?), imperceptible artifacts,perceptible artifacts Thomas Edison's #1 squeeze,Magazine editors , what's next Popsicle's halflife?

watch out 4 the crawl bots !

Last edited by tubetwister; 08-02-2014 at 02:34 PM.
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post #2912 of 2920 Old 08-02-2014, 02:24 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I have no pull or relationship with any of the above, but if anyone thinks the idea has merit and have any connection to Mitchco or Archimago, please reach out to them.
Speaking of Archimago, he had put forward his own challenge of 16 vs 24 bit a while ago (keeping the sampling rate constant). I had downloaded his files but up to now, had forgotten to take a listen. This post prompted me to do that. On two of the clips I had no luck finding the difference in the couple of minutes I devoted to them. On the third one though, I managed to find the right segment quickly and tell them apart:

============

foo_abx 1.3.4 report
foobar2000 v1.3.2
2014/08/02 13:52:46

File A: C:\Users\Amir\Music\Archimago\24-bit Audio Test (Hi-Res 24-96, FLAC, 2014)\01 - Sample A - Bozza - La Voie Triomphale.flac
File B: C:\Users\Amir\Music\Archimago\24-bit Audio Test (Hi-Res 24-96, FLAC, 2014)\02 - Sample B - Bozza - La Voie Triomphale.flac

13:52:46 : Test started.
13:54:02 : 01/01 50.0%
13:54:11 : 01/02 75.0%
13:54:57 : 02/03 50.0%
13:55:08 : 03/04 31.3%
13:55:15 : 04/05 18.8%
13:55:24 : 05/06 10.9%
13:55:32 : 06/07 6.3%
13:55:38 : 07/08 3.5%
13:55:48 : 08/09 2.0%
13:56:02 : 09/10 1.1%
13:56:08 : 10/11 0.6%
13:56:28 : 11/12 0.3%
13:56:37 : 12/13 0.2%
13:56:49 : 13/14 0.1%
13:56:58 : 14/15 0.0%
13:57:05 : Test finished.

----------
Total: 14/15 (0.0%)


============

It is now going to bug me until I can pass the test on his other two clips.

BTW, his test period is closed and he has reported such for the above clip:



And his commentary:
As you can see, in aggregate there is no evidence to show that the 140 respondents were able to identify the 24-bit sample. In fact it was an exact 50/50 for the Vivaldi and Goldberg! As for the Bozza sample, more respondents actually thought the dithered 16-bit version was the "better" sounding 24-bit file (statistically non-significant however, p-value 0.28).


So we see what aggregation of general public does in these tests and why industry recommendation is to use only trained listeners. Inclusion of large number of testers without any prequalifications pushes the results to 50-50. Imagine 4 out of his 140 being like me. Their results would have been erased by throwing them into the larger pool. If our goal to say what that larger group can do, then this kind of averaging of the results is fine. But if we want to make a "scientific" statement about audibility of 16 vs 24, is wrong and we run foul of simpson's paradox. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simpson%27s_paradox.

As always, I want to caution people that my testing is all about finding a difference and not stating what is better. And yet again, I do not know which file was which as I did my testing. I simply characterised the difference between A and B clips and then went to town.

Of note, I don't know how he had determined that the original files did indeed have better dynamic range than 16 bits. Maybe someone less lazy than me can find it and tell me .

Here is the original thread where the files were posted: http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2014/06...st-part-i.html

And results: http://archimago.blogspot.com/2014/0...t-part-ii.html
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post #2913 of 2920 Old 08-02-2014, 02:26 PM
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What topic it changes all the time ...
And? You think no one else knows this? Do you think this (these) contributions help?

It's bad enough to read the continual "power struggles". Let's hope this goes to sleep.
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post #2914 of 2920 Old 08-02-2014, 02:33 PM
 
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And? You think no one else knows this? Do you think this (these) contributions help?

It's bad enough to read the continual "power struggles". Let's hope this goes to sleep.
Hey: We need a new topic. How about nose picking technique, speaking of such, what do you think of my Avatar? (I know, weak segue way)
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post #2915 of 2920 Old 08-02-2014, 02:39 PM
 
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Hey: We need a new topic. How about nose picking technique, speaking of such, what do you think of my Avatar? (I know, weak segue way)
I'm still thinking a Popsicle half life with a Hollywood starlet on a hot day in Beverly hills
Might accomplish just as much there as this whole thread has done for practical purposes any way so far ?

Cool avatar did you wash UR hands when you were done G ? might a been easier to just grab a Kleenex ?

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post #2916 of 2920 Old 08-02-2014, 02:47 PM
 
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I'm still thinking a Popsicle half life with a Hollywood starlet on a hot day in Beverly hills

cool avatar did you wash UR hands when you were done G ? might a been easier to just grab a Kleenex ?
If I was to wash my hands, that would nullify my status as an authentic nose picker, so the answer is, not a chance!

Beach, babe, and something melting in my hands, your not playing fair, nothing can compete with that!
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post #2917 of 2920 Old 08-02-2014, 02:49 PM
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I can only sum up your latest post, Amir, as very disrespectful. Not only to Arny but also to anyone who respects him. Not a surprise after calling Arny and anyone who likes his posts a clown in your post #2621 . So much for the call to be respectful by many, huh? The saddest part is that you probably think your style in dealing with Arny is mature.
That post (and others similar) really ruin any higher level discussions going on in this thread. Like listening to why my 8 year old's friend dissed her for another playmate today. That's about the grade level it's on.
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post #2918 of 2920 Old 08-02-2014, 02:50 PM
 
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That post (and others similar) really ruin any higher level discussions going on in this thread. Like listening to why my 8 year old's friend dissed her for another playmate today. That's about the grade level it's on.
You actually made me laugh-out-loud! Thanks for that!
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post #2919 of 2920 Old 08-02-2014, 02:53 PM
 
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If I was to wash my hands, that would nullify my status as an authentic nose picker, so the answer is, not a chance!
Perfectly understandable since U put it that way

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garidy
Beach, babe, and something melting in my hands, your not playing fair, nothing can compete with that!
That's how we roll in the golden state G ,(well maybe not in Compton but I don't live there anyway)
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post #2920 of 2920 Old 08-02-2014, 02:56 PM
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please take the high road in every post:do not respond to or quote a problematic post: report it
HDMI.org:what a mess this is a red flag issue
HDCP = Hollywood's Draconian Copy Protection system
Test Reports HDMI Cables that support 18GBPS&HDMI 2.0b
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