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post #1 of 6 Old 07-07-2014, 09:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Speaker Trim Advice

I'm looking for a little bit of advice on setting speaker trims for the HT. Right now I have a Denon 2112 AVR and am running a mostly EMP system on it (see my signature for more details on my equipment). After running Audyssey most of my trims looked fairly normal (right in the ballpark of 0), the one that really stood out though was on my side surrounds, where it gave me a trip of +4.5db per speaker. Now my side surrounds are bipoles, which might be skewing things, but I was surprised to see them that far into the positive range. Beyond that, when I went back to dial things in with my SPL meter I found that each speaker was running at about 73db. So adjusting things to reference will actually put all of my trims into the positive zone.

My question for you all, would you feel comfortable running all of your speaker trims in the positive range. Especially when you consider that the sides are going to be pushing +6db at that point. I don't want to end up with blown tweeters because I'm over driving speakers.

AVR: Denon 2112
Speakers: EMP Tek e55ti, Center- EMP Tek e56ci, Side Surrounds- EMP Tek e55wi, Rear Surrounds- SVS Prime Satellites, Sub- SVS PC-12 Plus, SVS PC-13 Ultra
Display: BenQ w1070 on a 110in fixed screen
Blu-Ray Player: Sony BDP S6200;
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post #2 of 6 Old 07-07-2014, 03:24 PM
 
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Originally Posted by AllenA07 View Post
I'm looking for a little bit of advice on setting speaker trims for the HT. Right now I have a Denon 2112 AVR and am running a mostly EMP system on it (see my signature for more details on my equipment). After running Audyssey most of my trims looked fairly normal (right in the ballpark of 0), the one that really stood out though was on my side surrounds, where it gave me a trip of +4.5db per speaker. Now my side surrounds are bipoles, which might be skewing things, but I was surprised to see them that far into the positive range. Beyond that, when I went back to dial things in with my SPL meter I found that each speaker was running at about 73db. So adjusting things to reference will actually put all of my trims into the positive zone.

My question for you all, would you feel comfortable running all of your speaker trims in the positive range. Especially when you consider that the sides are going to be pushing +6db at that point. I don't want to end up with blown tweeters because I'm over driving speakers.
Most trims go to only +/- 12 dB not because a larger range would instantly blow up speakers or amps, but because the gain range has to be created by extra amplification, and it has a cost in terms of parts cost, noise and distortion. +/- 12 dB is pretty usable range and there are few real world situations where it is not adequate without some other failure or error in system setup.

Obviously 4.5 dB is only about 25% of 12 dB, so it won't instantly blow up speakers or amps, either. 4.5 dB is not a problem, its just a mild mismatch that was easily corrected within the limits of ordinary audio gear.

To be blunt, you seem to be obsessing. If you want to obsess more effectively take a serious look at your room acoustics. They are probably the larger problem when it comes to sound quality.
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post #3 of 6 Old 07-07-2014, 04:25 PM
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Most trims go to only +/- 12 dB not because a larger range would instantly blow up speakers or amps, but because the gain range has to be created by extra amplification, and it has a cost in terms of parts cost, noise and distortion. +/- 12 dB is pretty usable range and there are few real world situations where it is not adequate without some other failure or error in system setup.
Hey Arny, now that you are talking about channel trims, I have a question. When I see something like +12dB, I don't think about speakers being blown up - that is a function of total system gain including the volume knob which I have control over. I think about signal overloading and clipping of the preamp signal to that channel. When an AVR / surround processor sets positive channel trim to a particular channel / speaker, do we need to worry about the signal being boosted into clipping? Is it a safer practice instead to cut / attenuate the rest of the channels for balance instead of boosting the one that is too low? It seems like if this was a problem the mfg's wouldn't give the option to boost, only to cut and auto room correction (which I have very little experience with) would never boost a channel too much to risk clipping.

2-Ch (HT L/R): Oppo BDP-105 BD, Adcom GFP-750 pre, Bryston 10B Sub Xover, Bryston 4BSST2 / Paradigm Signature S4 v.2 (L/R), (2) SVS SB12-NSD (Subs)
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post #4 of 6 Old 07-07-2014, 05:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Most trims go to only To be blunt, you seem to be obsessing. If you want to obsess more effectively take a serious look at your room acoustics. They are probably the larger problem when it comes to sound quality.
I've been obsessing for the last decade. Room acoustics suck for me and there is little I can do about it right now. Few years down the road and I'll be moving to a dedicated option at which point I can worry about room acoustics. I just want to be sure that I'm not doing a any damage by running my tirms into the positives.
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post #5 of 6 Old 08-24-2014, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllenA07 View Post
I've been obsessing for the last decade. Room acoustics suck for me and there is little I can do about it right now. Few years down the road and I'll be moving to a dedicated option at which point I can worry about room acoustics. I just want to be sure that I'm not doing a any damage by running my tirms into the positives.

I run all my trims in the positive section and never had a problem with "blowing," "distortion" or "clipping;" I find that I can approach the "0dB" mark on trim adjustments when a certain speaker is much closer to my ear than another i.e. one of the surround channels...


But to me, leaving the trims in the "+dB" range just "wakes" the system up more; I totally understand, though, that these channels are supposed to be set so that the master volume can reach reference level and such...I just don't get hung up on reaching reference.

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ONKYO TX-SR605B - oppo BDP-83 - SONY KDS-50A2020 SXRD
polkaudio RTi12 - polkaudio CSi30 - SpeakerCraft Preinstalled In-Ceiling Surrounds - polkaudio PSW350
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post #6 of 6 Old 08-24-2014, 10:31 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllenA07 View Post
I've been obsessing for the last decade. Room acoustics suck for me and there is little I can do about it right now. Few years down the road and I'll be moving to a dedicated option at which point I can worry about room acoustics. I just want to be sure that I'm not doing a any damage by running my tirms into the positives.
Trims are tools, and are there to make adjustments that you desire.

Audyssey and tools like it are not the be-all and end-all, they are just tools for our benefit and the humans are still supposed to be in control, not the machines. If you need to adjust the trims to obtain the sound quality you desire then you should feel completely free to do so!

Audyssey and tools like it are based on assumptions, and one of the assumptions is typical speakers and another is a room with moderately good acoustics. It appears that neither may apply in your case, so that gives you a license of sorts to exercise the final judgement in your situation.
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