daisy chainging speakers - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 12 Old 07-10-2014, 11:46 AM - Thread Starter
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daisy chainging speakers

I own a Denon 4311CI which is an 11ch. amp. For arguments sake lets assume I am using my front L,C,R, height, wides, sides & rears.
If I wanted to add 2 more rears and/or 2 more sides do I daisy chain from my existing speakers? ie. After I run the + and - from my AVR to my rears could I just run speaker wire from my existing rears + and - to my other set of rears? My AVR would not know I have 2 additional speakers and still process them as rears.


Could I do the same for sides? Lets assume my AVR is 150wpc, adding two additional speakers shouldn't harm the unit.
OR
Should I use an external 4 channel amp using my AVR pre out? probably have to be a pro amp OR


Could I use a Y cable from my AVR pre out into two separate 2 ch amps which would equal 4 channels. I have never used a Y cable for pro amps?


Can I do the same if I wanted to add two additional side speakers to have 4 total?


My theater room is 22 feet deep by 16 ft wide. I Was just curious about adding some additional speakers to test and see If I can hear an improvement.
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post #2 of 12 Old 07-10-2014, 11:59 AM
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could I just run speaker wire from my existing rears + and - to my other set of rears?


If you do, you have 2 speakers connected parallel. If both are 4 Ohm, the result is a 2 Ohm load.
Your AVR might not like this low load
Check the minimum impendence the AVR allows for
http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-paralresist.htm


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post #3 of 12 Old 07-10-2014, 12:40 PM
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You want just one speaker per amplifier. Using more runs the risk of phase cancellation (worse sound.)
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post #4 of 12 Old 07-10-2014, 12:59 PM - Thread Starter
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There must be a way, my rears speakers have terminals for input and output, According to the diagram, its for daisy chaining the speakers. However, they are QSC cinema theater speakers. Perhaps they are meant to be connected to an external amp or distributor. I just thought it would be a cool idea to connect 4 rears, or 4 sides.
@ Roseval. I wasn't going to connect them in parallel. just run speaker wire from + to + and - to -. Basically like running two separate speaker wire runs from the back of the AVR. NOT the correct way but it would send a signal.
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post #5 of 12 Old 07-10-2014, 01:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Here is an attached picture of the SR 8101
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post #6 of 12 Old 07-10-2014, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlhaudio View Post
=
@ Roseval. I wasn't going to connect them in parallel. just run speaker wire from + to + and - to -. Basically like running two separate speaker wire runs from the back of the AVR. NOT the correct way but it would send a signal.
that IS parallel. Two eight ohm speakers in parallel yield a four ohm load. Two four ohm speakers in parallel yield a two ohm load. Not many, if any, receivers are going to be comfortable at two ohms, and most are not rated below 6 ohms, IME. Whether you overheat and shut down becomes a question of SPL . . . .

IF the impedance doesn't drop too low, and assuming speaker and listener placement is such that it doesn't mess up imaging or cause significant problems with frequency response (peaks and dips from the two speakers combining with each other differently) it's doable, if perhaps unnecessary.
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post #7 of 12 Old 07-10-2014, 01:18 PM - Thread Starter
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So the speakers are made to run in parallel? but If I connect them I may ruin my AVR, How do I connect them? With an external amp? The manual shows up to 8 being connected at one time. How is that possible? I would never connect 8 but now im curious. I thought it was just a pass through and didn't change the impedance of the speaker.

Last edited by rlhaudio; 07-10-2014 at 01:24 PM.
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post #8 of 12 Old 07-10-2014, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlhaudio View Post
So the speakers are made to run in parallel, but If I connect them I may ruin my AVR, How do I connect them? With an external amp? The manual shows up to 8 being connected at one time. How is that possible? I would never connect 8 but now im curious. I thought it was just a pass through and didn't change the impedance of the speaker.
Its impossible to guess whats going on behind that panel, it could connect serial or parallel. If the manual doesnt state you can remove and inspect.

However assuming what you say is correct connecting 8 together would only be possible if it connected in series and to push 8 in series youd need a substantial amp.

Two in series would net approx 16ohms but youd double your efficiency so it would be approx a wash in spl capability no net gain.

To properly implement a surround array you need independent delay and EQ controls for each speaker which means discrete amplification.

Connecting up surrounds like that(daisy chaining) does make for a very immersive surround field(ive tried it) but its not technically correct, whatever thats worth.
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post #9 of 12 Old 07-10-2014, 01:36 PM - Thread Starter
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I was waiting for a reply from a rep. They are wired in parallel and require a 4, 8, or 16 channel external amp for power. QSC sells an amp to match the speaker setup. I was hoping for a loop hole. A cheap work around. NOT going to happen. I learned something today..
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post #10 of 12 Old 07-10-2014, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlhaudio View Post
So the speakers are made to run in parallel? but If I connect them I may ruin my AVR, How do I connect them? With an external amp? The manual shows up to 8 being connected at one time. How is that possible? I would never connect 8 but now im curious. I thought it was just a pass through and didn't change the impedance of the speaker.
The two speakers have to be connected either in parallel or series. You could connect them in series but I don't recommend it here. The connection you suggested is parallel.
You cannot sneak a speaker connection onto an amp. It cannot feel see smell or taste how many wires are connected at rhe speaker terminals. Whatever is connected is connected.

Google series and parallel connection if you are interested in how they work.


Aaagh! I take it back. You cannot put those speakers in series without making internal wiring changes. So not advisable under almost any circumstances. On a related note I need to pay closer attention to whether bass or guitar players who think they can build a series speaker cable are full of it or are also disconnecting the internal plus-to-negative connections within the speaker cabs . . .

Last edited by JHAz; 07-10-2014 at 02:48 PM. Reason: Oops
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post #11 of 12 Old 07-10-2014, 05:00 PM
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You can daisy chain them it will work, but you will only get 38watts out of the 150wpc, because you are doubling the resistance (probably 16 ohms) and then dividing the watts into two speakers per channel.

If the speakers are different models or brands you could get some nasty sound coming out of them (you won't know until you try it, too many variables to predict).

It is best to use only one speaker per amp channel, rather than trying to double up.
For subwoofers people do this all the time, but at higher mains-frequencies things can get ugly sounding quick.

If you wire them in parallel the amp might get overheated/overload and thus become damaged if it can't handle 2-4ohms, so best to wire it in series (8 to 32 ohms).

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Last edited by BassThatHz; 07-10-2014 at 05:04 PM.
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post #12 of 12 Old 07-10-2014, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlhaudio View Post
I wasn't going to connect them in parallel. just run speaker wire from + to + and - to -.
That is wiring them in parallel.

Amp+ to #1 + and then #1 - to #2 + and then #2 - to Amp- is series.

Amp+ to #1 + and then #1 - to Amp- and then #2 + to #1 + and #2 - to #1 - is parallel.




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Last edited by BassThatHz; 07-10-2014 at 05:14 PM.
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